Transfer case swap?

[Dirtball]

Is there a part-time transfer case that is a direct swap for Qtracs? I assume that there must not be since so many of you spend the big bucks for the part-time conversion kits... if there is, wouldn't it be cheaper to swap to one?

[wickedwagon767]

No

The Quadratrac transfer cases were only used behind the AMC bolt TH400 tranny in the FSJ's and if you want to swap it out you're going to have to disassemble that transmission and replace the output shaft to match whatever T-case you wanna use because the output shafts used for the QT were odd,very long, coarse and unique to that case alone. ****'d red-headed stepchild of output shafts.

It is a bolt-in, it just depends how hesitant a person is with dismantling an automatic tranny. I'm going to swap in a Dana300 T-case from a CJ and rebuild/modify the TH400 in my 78 Wagoneer simultaneously. I am currently hunting down a 32-spline GM TH400 output shaft (used in Chevy trucks with the TH400 tranny to NP205 T-case combo) and at the time of the install will also be upgrading the Dana300's input gear to a custom aftermarket 32-spline unit to match the GM shaft for serious beef on that end.

There are several T-case options that can be bolted up to that TH400 tranny. Plenty of all-gear Dana20 T-cases out there to consider. GMs' legendary NP205 all-gear Hulk is an option. An NP208. a stout NP241.

you will just need the correct output shaft and adapter to hook them up. And , of course, floorboard mods will need to be made for the shifter and driveshaft mods are usually necessary, tho not always. I've seen Dana20's, NP208's and Dana300's swapped in place of a Quadratrac that didn't need any driveshaft modifications.

BTW: the part time kits for the Quadratrac are about $400 without the 16% overdrive option ( that kit is more and uses a different sized chain as part of the additional cost) and can be installed with the front half of the case still in the vehicle. If a person were to do the install theirself and install a new chain and other basic maintenance at the same time the cost would be around $600 more than likely. Just under a G with labor costs factored in. Swapping in a different T-case will more than likely be more than that, depending on what kind of deals you get on parts.

For example, here is a rough run down of what I'm going to spend on the initial install of my Dana300

- Dana300 case in good condition (without shifter)
$250 ( have seen them go for less,some as high as $400, you never know...but don't pay that
much!
- GM 32-spline output shaft
$50-100
- JB Conversions TH400 to Dana300 Benchmark adapter kit (part# 10-1010)w/
*1.25" thick billet aluminum adapter
*32-spline input gear
*.75" billet rotation plate
* grade 8-12 bolts
$575
- BullTear swat box and cable/flip
still waiting on a price to be slapped on these babies,but the owner of BullTear claims that they
won't be expensive when compared to other setups...we'll see....

I'm looking at just under a G without the shifter assembly price and without misc costs such as T-case mounts,hardware and possible driveshaft modifications, which I don't think will be extensive.....until I swap in 1-ton axles later.

And if the tranny is in good shape it won't need to be rebuilt,but I will be doing mine since its going to be apart anyway. So tack on a few hundred more in high-performance friction materials,coolers,a deep pan ( and I want a lower planetary gear from A-1 automatic,but the 3:1 set is $1100 alone!...I'll hold off on that!)

I may have to sell my body, but I will get it done

[rustywagoneers_com]

yep, he covered it... if i was in your boat, and didnst want QT anymore... i think i would get a TH400 and 205 from a chevy and use those guts and tcase w/the AMC th400 case... or maybe a GM 400 and 203 and use the 203 range box and a 205 and go doubler city... lotsa options

peace
Dave

[wickedwagon767]

Now, probably the least expensive method to get a part-time transfer case swapped in place of a Quadratrac would be to salvage a pre-quadratrac FSJ Wagoneer, J-truck and some Jeepster Commandos with the TH400/Dana20 transmission/T-case combo. You can usually find this combo for between roughly $175-300. There will be more work involved because you will end up disassembling two transmissions to get the output shaft out of the donor and into the running vehicle ( FYI, the output shaft is the last thing to come out of a transmission during a rebuild....which is why you have to take it all apart!)but you can use the tranny to T-case adapter,tranny output shaft,the T-case and shifter all in the recieving vehicle. With misc. costs in small parts and tools you can potentially get this combo swapped in place of a Quadratrac for less than the cost of a Quadratrac rebuild.

If you can't find everything all together.........many sleepless nights flying through offroad community for-sale boards will eventually turn up everything you need.....and some people let parts go for nothing just to get rid of them.

"one persons junk is anothers ones treasure":cool:

That coming from a guy whos current project is going to be built with 85% used ,quality parts at bargain prices.:D

[Economos]

Now, probably the least expensive method to get a part-time transfer case swapped in place of a Quadratrac would be to salvage a pre-quadratrac FSJ Wagoneer, J-truck and some Jeepster Commandos with the TH400/Dana20 transmission/T-case combo.

Can you specify which years the TH400 was mated to a D20 in a J-Truck? There's a junkyard not more than a few hundred meters from my doorstep that just happens to have a rusted out Kaiser J-truck sitting in it. Can't tell much more about it than that...

[wickedwagon767]

come to think of it, if you could find an early 80's FSJ with the TF727 3 speed automatic linked to an NP208 T-case you could just swap both assemblies directly in place of the TH400/QT combo in one broad stride without dismantling them and not have much more than tranny linkage and T-case shifter work to get it working.

[wickedwagon767]

Can you specify which years the TH400 was mated to a D20 in a J-Truck? There's a junkyard not more than a few hundred meters from my doorstep that just happens to have a rusted out Kaiser J-truck sitting in it. Can't tell much more about it than that...

Jeep began using the Quadratrac in FSJ's in 1973 I believe. For a TH400/D20 combo look for a J-truck or Wagoneer built between 1963-1972. The Dana20 was also found behind the factory standard trannies as well. In fact the Dana20 was used during the Quadratrac years ,but was the T-case found behind the manual tranny FSJ's during those years.

hope you find what you need

EDIT: quoting -Joe, look for late '65-72 TH400/Dana20 rigs

I don't have any pics of a Dana20 offhand so you can verify what is actually under the Kaiser J-truck you've spotted,but the Dana20 and Dana300 cases look nearly identical and I have a few pics of my Dana300 that I can email you.

[fulsizjeep]

Not sure when the T400 was first used, but the T400/D20 combo was available in all FSJs up through 79.

On the 727/208 comments. That is a drivers side output for the front. If you go that way, front axel needs to be changed too.

Quadratracs can be found in slavage yards with MM part time kits in them and they are not any more expensive than a stock one. The yard guys don't know the diff anyways.

[joe]

Not sure when the T400 was first used,
Late 65 with the intro of the 327. The earlier rigs with the 230's and AT used the Borg-Warner AS-8F and D21(single speed) combo.

[Dirtball]

So, did all of those early combos use offset rear axles like mine with the Qtrac?

[fulsizjeep]

No, the D20 FSJs had a slight right offset, but not near like the QT equipped rigs.

[wickedwagon767]

Not sure when the T400 was first used, but the T400/D20 combo was available in all FSJs up through 79.

The Dana20 was available up to 79,but not behind the TH400 during the Quadratrac years( 73/74-79)

On the 727/208 comments. That is a drivers side output for the front. If you go that way, front axel needs to be changed too.

Doh! you're right. Jeep went to driverside drop front differentials in the 1980 model year.The front axle off the vehicle would need to be salvaged to,but would be basically a bolt-in. However, Chevy offered the TH400/NP208 combo in passenger side drop configuration during the mid 80's that can be either disassembled just as the Jeep TH400/D20 combo to pirate the output shaft and adapter for the T-case........or, you can use an aftermarket adapter between the AMC engine and Chevy transmission to swap the two components together into a Quadratrac rig.

Quadratracs can be found in slavage yards with MM part time kits in them and they are not any more expensive than a stock one. The yard guys don't know the diff anyways.

True,but alot of people prefer a firm shifting lever to engage 4wheel drive for certainty of engagement. Some people like the vacuum engagement of the the QT(however unreliable it can be at times with vacuum leaks and such) and some convert it to manual engagement via a Cable shifter convert. Quadratracs , when understood and serviced properly are really not bad T-cases. The units with the Low-range had a 2.57:1 ratio which isn't bad, however there isn't any other aftermarket/custom upgrades for that low-range that I am aware of which is largely why I'm swapping mine out. Which is also why Dana20's, Dana300's and NP205's are ideal swaps because aftermarket low-gear sets,input/output shaft upgrades and doubler combos are available to add later on as time and money allow if you are budget-concious, like mua:D at the time being.

[FSJeeper]

On the 727/208 comments. That is a drivers side output for the front. If you go that way, front axel needs to be changed too.

If he ran a 727, a Dodge NP208 would bolt right up and is a passenger drop.

[FSJeeper]

Clocking rings are cheap now. Easy solution. Or, not hard to drill new clocking holes.

[J10Mike]

Clocking rings are cheap now. Easy solution. Or, not hard to drill new clocking holes.
Sorry about that. I gave the wrong info. Tad did attempt to mate a Dodge 208 to a TH400. Not the 727 as I had thought.

[wickedwagon767]

yeppo

diy4x www.diy4x.com (http://www.diy4x.com) has NP208/NP241/Dana300 clocking rings for under $60w/hardware included.

I'm not sure if you can use it to clock a driver side drop case all the way over to passenger or not. One email to diy4x would tell.

[wickedwagon767]

If he ran a 727, a Dodge NP208 would bolt right up and is a passenger drop.

Yep, Dodge used the TF727 tranny and passenger drop NP208 in the 1980's. You can find good AMC V8 bolt-pattern TF727 tranny cores for around $50 , usually right here on ifsja.org....with about $300 more figured in for a stock rebuild if a shop does the work,less if you do it . Good to bolt-in-and-go tranny's go anywhere from free to about $250.If you cruise over to a local wrecking yard, www.ramchargercentral.com (http://www.ramchargercentral.com) or www.pirate4x4.com (http://www.pirate4x4.com) I'm sure you could find an early to late 80's NP208 out of a Dodge truck/Ramcharger in good working order for around $100, more or less....probably with the necessary adapter as well. Most of the hardcore Dodge/GM guys swap NP205 cases in place of the 208, so they're always popping up, sometimes even thrown at you.

[Tad]

Sorry about that. I gave the wrong info. Tad did attempt to mate a Dodge 208 to a TH400. Not the 727 as I had thought.
Yea, I did, it will mate...
http://members.cox.net/fsjntechstuff/clockthedodge.JPG
...not a simply as one might like but what the heck.
Not sure about my tranny rebuilding ability either, but we will find out in about 6 weeks I guess.

[Dirtball]

Thanks for all the input, folks... I'm just kind of dreaming anyway... I don't know that this thing will ever see any truly hard fourwheeling... if I ever decide to go that route I think I'll just stick in the complete drivetrain from a 3/4 or 1 ton Suburban and be done with it. I'll just take care of my Qtrac and see where it all takes me. That part-time kit doesn't seem quite as expensive or as much of a hassle anymore.

[Heep80]

I heard that a 727 bolts right up to a dana 300, and the only thing I would need is a dana 44 passenger side diff out of 73-76 chebby with flat top knuckles. to get my truck really rollin'.. rollin' slow that is! what would some of these parts cost? oh I got the 727.. was wanting to get rid of my NP219 (new verson of old QT)
thanks in advance.

[wickedwagon767]

Heep80

Eh, I do know that the Dana300 has the same rounded 6-bolt pattern as found on the factory NP208 and NP241 T-cases. No T-cases 'bolt right up' without an adapter, however many of the early 80's FSJ's had the 727/NP208 comb. You will need the adapter between the two. Expect to pay anywhere from free-$100 for that factory adapter. And yes, a 73-76 flattop knuckle, passenger drop GM Dana44 axle is an option.....and its width is also a bit longer than your factory front axle ( I'm assuming you have a driver side drop Dana44 from an early to mid 80's FSJ) so you will need a wider rear axle to match the front. Another option is a pair of Dana44 axles found behind a mid to late 70's Widetrack Cherokee with the factory standard tranny ( not the quadratrac, unless you don't mind running the offset rear differential.....which really isn't a problem) The widetrack axles are a few inches wider than the narrow Dana44's found on FSJ's. You could also just find a mid-late 70's narrow track passenger drop Dana44 front off of an FSJ and just hunt down a passenger side flattop knuckle for a few bucks to bolt up a hi-steer setup and have an axle that matches the width of the rear you already have.

all in all do NOT pay more than $200 for ANY dana44 front or rear axle IMO.....and for that price they should be in excellent condition. Some people sell them for less, some try to get away with murder and sell them for several hundred dollars each . Just use good judgement. More than likley you will find Dana44's for around $100-$150 each....even the old flattop knuckle GM models.

www.partsmikeparts.com (http://www.partsmikeparts.com) is a great source for Dana44 parts, including flattop knuckles and all necessary components to run a hi-steer setup. Mike is ideal to do buisness with and works to make time for any questions anyone has about his products. He quoted me $388 shipped for a new passenger side Dana44 flattop knuckle, .5" spacer,hi-steer steering arm and new extended length studs and mounting hardware. Basically everything you need to mount the factory draglink up over the springs ( ideal in an SOA conversion ) to get it as close to being parallel to the ground as possible. His knuckles are new, fresh from the mold. However, to save money you can find GM flattop knuckles for anywhere from $50-150 a pair. I wouldn't pay over $100( I recently saw a few pairs being sold for $75 + shipping on www.ck5.com (http://www.ck5.com)). after you obtain them you will still have to have them milled,drilled and tapped to prepare the surface for a hi-steer arm. That service usually runs between $45-75 per knuckle and Mike at partsmikeparts provides that service for $55 I believe, which is good.

hope this helps

[Heep80]

wow! thanks. i have heard about parts mike alot. i do have a W/T already, just concerned about the rear AMC20 that I would like to get rid of due to lack of lower than 4:56's. although i did hear some where that they do make a disk brake conversion.? sounds like I need to do more research before I jump in heads first on this one. guess the whole SOA thing is intimading

[wickedwagon767]

only as intimidating as you let it be. As long as you have a place to park your heap while you're tearing into it you'll git r done:D .....however long it takes.

Try scouring local junkyards for Wagoneers built between late-86 to '91. They had the dana44 rear ( not sure on the track width of those axles ). That will help your gear options. The AMC20 really isn't bad with decent axles in it and 4.56's are ideal for all-around use with a 35" tire, which should be the biggest tire you'd conisder to run on that axle.........unless you just happen to like differential stew:rolleyes:

On the disc brake kit for the AMC20, I think PST ( performance suspension technology) makes a disc conversion kit for it for around $700. I'm almost positive. I'll dig out my PST catalog and verify for sure.

[Heep80]

this site is packed with good info! i'll keep that in mind. Sold my toyota to back to school.. so major mods will be on hold due to books, rent, etc.. and didn't make much on the deal. thanx:fsj:

[SCscoutguy]

Eh, I do know that the Dana300 has the same rounded 6-bolt pattern as found on the factory NP208 and NP241 T-cases. No T-cases 'bolt right up' without an adapter, however many of the early 80's FSJ's had the 727/NP208 comb.
A Dana 300 from a 80-86 CJ will bolt right up to the tailshaft housing of a 727 from a 80's FSJ. This would probably be the easiest and cheapest route to go.

[wickedwagon767]

as long as all the various new process cases that Jeep used were 23-spline input.

[Heep80]

got any where we can roughly find out that info with out dropping a transfer case?

[malodin]

heep80, i do believe that the bolt pattern for the 727/d300 is a match but you would have to check out jbconversions and get a d300 input spline that correctly matched the 727 output spline(im not sure if they are the same count) i.e. 727:27spline d300:23 spline(or something like that) they custom d300 input splines run 175 shipped(at least it did when i got my 32spl chevy version)