YAWQ yet another wiring question hehe

[popeye44]

OK. I want to get rid of ammeter wire.. I'm putting in a new wiring harness.. is there any reason I should keep that wire.. and is their any reason I couldn't wire the alternator wire to the same post the ammeter is on now? "at the positive post of solenoid?" From what I can tell on the wiring diagram the alt wire "12" becomes 12a,b,c,d and one of those go to amp gauge. Couldn't i make say E go to a voltmeter? I'm trying to get a picture in my head that will work.. so if I'm wrong just point me in the right direction.. I'm planning a swap to a better alt later but right now I need jeep on road. I will also mention.. the DSPO had someone wire these 2 wires back in 12 and 55 according to wiring chart and he dutifully put it right back to the semi-melted ammeter like a good fella.."I undid that almost immediately after taking ownership" I just figure since these two wires were actually together before "in order to disable the ammeter" I could do it outside the firewall and run one less into the interior??

Thanks.. and thanks for letting me toss my often wrong ideas out heheh.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by popeye44:
OK. I want to get rid of ammeter wire.. I'm putting in a new wiring harness.. is there any reason I should keep that wire.. and is their any reason I couldn't wire the alternator wire to the same post the ammeter is on now? "at the positive post of solenoid?" From what I can tell on the wiring diagram the alt wire "12" becomes 12a,b,c,d and one of those go to amp gauge. Couldn't i make say E go to a voltmeter? I'm trying to get a picture in my head that will work.. so if I'm wrong just point me in the right direction.. I'm planning a swap to a better alt later but right now I need jeep on road. I will also mention.. the DSPO had someone wire these 2 wires back in 12 and 55 according to wiring chart and he dutifully put it right back to the semi-melted ammeter like a good fella.."I undid that almost immediately after taking ownership" I just figure since these two wires were actually together before "in order to disable the ammeter" I could do it outside the firewall and run one less into the interior??

Thanks.. and thanks for letting me toss my often wrong ideas out heheh.This is a constructive comment, so don't take it the wrong way...but if you have to ask, then perhaps you may not quite be ready to tackle this.

Bypassing the ammeter is not a bad idea, if done properly.

The proper way to do this is to eliminate the orignial output wire from the alternator that goes thru the firewall to that splice.

So now we route the alternators output (New 8AWG Red Copper Stranded Wire) thru a circuit breaker or fuse to the Positive terminal of the solenoid.

So, we now need to get power from the battery to that splice, so run a remove the Ammeter wire from the alternator to the splice, now remove the Fusible linked wire (most likely Yellow Wire...ya didn't mention the year model and make...ya knucklehead) and go from the Positive Solenoid Post and Positive Battery junction to the "Splice" with perhaps a Yellow 8AWG Copper Stranded Wire and protect it with a fuse or Circuit Breaker.

That is the proper way to do it, lots of folks will chime in on how they did it, this is the proper way.

Now tie your newly purchased voltmeter in to the Splice (Pos Terminal) and a ground point that is at (or very near) the same ground potential as the Negative Battery terminal.

Why tie the voltmeter to this point?

Well, this is the place that all of the vehicle electrical systems gets their power, so it is the proper place to monitor the voltage and there will be less IR drop on the wiring.

Why no fusible link...a fuslible link is actually a stranded copper wire that is 4 AWG sizes smaller than the wire it (protects). This means that a 10AWG wire has a 14 AWG wire inserted (with some upgraded insulation) in series with it...if you think that this is a good idea....

[roadgrime]

just curious ... where did you get the wiring harness?

i think joe gave me the same advice when i first got my 79 and it worked perfectly.

[popeye44]

Sorry Joe, It's not that I haven't done wiring.. I do it all the time with computers etc.. it's more of not having done it on vehicles in a bit over 10 years "back when I was a mechanic"
Also vehicle year in my sig..

1974

I got the harness from here used. I think it's out of a 77-78.

Thanks a bunch.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by popeye44:
Sorry Joe, It's not that I haven't done wiring.. I do it all the time with computers etc.. it's more of not having done it on vehicles in a bit over 10 years "back when I was a mechanic"
Also vehicle year in my sig..

1974

I got the harness from here used. I think it's out of a 77-78.

Thanks a bunch.Hey, no problem...I wasn't slammin you, just want to make sure that folks reasise that sometimes the wiring on these Jeeps are not really up to par, especially the fusible links.

I will wager that more fires are started by the fusible link allowing too much current to flow, and thus melting the insulation and really causing harm.

That old of a vehicle probably needs most of the underhood wiring harnesses inspected very closely.

If you pull your old wiring harness out intack, and lay it on a 4x8 foot sheet of plywood, you can branch out the various harnesses and lay nails every inch on both sides. Now you can lay in replacement wires of the correct color and perhaps improve on the insulation and bump up the AWG wire size one size. Then, just terminate the individuals wires in Molex connectors, or Ring Terminals, or Spade Quick Disconnect lugs or whatever is required.

Last step is to purchase a firewall engine side plug (I believe that CJ's use the same plug) and purchase the connectors and crimp and insert.

Volia! Brand new wiring harness from the ground up.

[popeye44]

Joe, thanks again for all the help.. your a great resource to have here..

I absolutley MUST have a new engine side plug.. this ones got a section broken off I did not see.

Any ideas for a source?? "as in can I actually get a new one?" or am I going to be stuck with old? As you said cj's.. and it does seem my cj6 has a similar one on it. not going to rob that one though hahaha..

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

Great Info!!

[mdill]

Hey, Joe,

Don't have a problem with your discription,
but I think there is an easier way.

1)Move Red wire that goes:
alt -> engine side fuse block connector.
Pull terminals from fuse block connector,
trim and add fusable link then reconnect what
was fues block side to solinoid lug.


Move Yellow wire from their currnet locations
in fuse block connector, to the location(s)
vacated by the red wire in the above step.

This is for stock alts (no more than ~ 85 amps max)
If you plan on larger alt, replace rather than
reuse the OEM red alt wire with the appropriate
guage for the alt you plan on using.

I think this does the same as what Joe said,
just reuses what is there.

For the volt meter, just use the OEM red wire that
went to the alt side of the amp meter. (It now
connects to the yellow wire to the battery, and
the Yellow wire on the bat side of the amp meter
should be open.

This is from memory, of the wiring diagrams and
so check and understand what you are doing before
you take the above as total fact.

Mike D.

[popeye44]

part of the problem.. is that he made the wire that goes to engine side of fuse block.. run all the way to dash.. soldering 3-4 wires that run off the alt wire to another run through the fuse panel.. I'm trying to keep as much original design.. but have no problem doing new wires up to engine side of fuse block.

I do plan on 120amp later to #1. get rid of external reg 2. clean up compartment 3. obviously have more amps.. but I don't want to create a firehazard obviously. I will likely be putting a roof rack on this at some point and putting lights on that. I cannot afford at this point to run out and buy that 105.00 alternator or I'd be doing it all at once. "I do have another jeep thats getting a 4.0 head and efi
put on.. so I'm splitting funds now heheheeh"

O and forgive me.. I have an issue with not seeng how something goes till it's a good picture in my head.. I'm unsure because it's not fully developed upstairs.. LOL :D

I need a polaroid brain.. 60 seconds.. viola!

[ February 25, 2004, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: popeye44 ]

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by popeye44:
Joe, thanks again for all the help.. your a great resource to have here..

I absolutley MUST have a new engine side plug.. this ones got a section broken off I did not see.

Any ideas for a source?? "as in can I actually get a new one?" or am I going to be stuck with old? As you said cj's.. and it does seem my cj6 has a similar one on it. not going to rob that one though hahaha..I replaced mine in 2000 and the source was a CJ shop.

[mdill4]

OK so much for my reading comprehention.

Like Joe said, a "new" connector should not be
a problem, they are standard GM Packard
fuse box connectors, CJ or most likely any
70's -80's GM product should use the same
connector. (Pick and Pull should work without
opening too many hoods)

I beleive they use Packard 56 terminals, which
you can get though Waytek inc. www.waytekwire.com (http://www.waytekwire.com)
or any good auto parts store. To replace any
that are damaged.

Take your "new' donar connector and remove all the
old wire and place it by your old one and remove
one at a time and transfer to the new connector body, doing the modifactaions as outline above.

Mike D.