Working on my NP203/NP205 doubler who wants an adapter?

[Will Morris]

So, I'm doing the design work for my NP203/NP205 doubler right now and will start building my adapter shortly. I'm building mine for a Ford NP205 with a round bolt pattern, but if you sent me the specs on your NP205, I will probably be able to build you an adapter to those specs. Anyway, the cost of materials is really high to get enough aluminum for one adapter plate, but would drop off a lot per plate the more I get, so if some of you guys want to pay for materials and a little bit more for my trouble, then I'll make several adapters for those interested since the design and setting up the tooling will take me much longer than actually machining them so it makes sense for me to do a couple while I've got everything set up. Let me know who's interested. This will be a lot cheaper than buying an adapter from ORD. If I can get a couple people interested, then I'll be able to make each one out of a solid chunk of aluminum. Plenty beefy, but still light weight.

Will

[JeepsAndGuns]

I REALLY need the factory adapter that goes between the NP-435 and the NP-205. I am missing only that part. You have one of those?

[Will Morris]

I don't have an extra NP435/NP205 adapter. I'm just making the adapter plate to go between the NP203/NP205. If I can get enough people interested and the cost of materials down, it will be one piece and plenty beefy.

Will

[seabee]

with this set up, is the 203 up front? do you have to install a milemarker part time kit with it or will the 205 take care of that? if it is out of the 205, what do you do with the 203 output?
Hope i am making sense

[Will Morris]

Seabee, this should give you a pretty good idea of what's going on: http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2000/gordtcases/gordtcases.cfm The 203 range box is removed from the rest of the 203 transfer case and put in front of the 205 so the chain drive from the 203 disappears. The 203 output shaft is then turned down and resplined.

Will

[shag]

What kind of $ are we talking? I am interested but Im not rich I have planned on an ord doubler but its a "save up" item so what kind of $ are you talking so I can maybe move it to the priority table or it may be left and eventually I willl fork my money over to ord

[Will Morris]

Well, it depends a lot on how many people I can get interested. If I can get four or five people interested then I'm hoping to get the cost per plate in materials way down so it'd be somewhere in the $250-350 as a tentative guess for the adapter plate. I'm not sure yet whether I'll be able to turn down and respline the shafts in the shop. Probably more cost effective and easier just to have Moser Engineering do it.

Will

[rockjeep44]

Bottom line: If Will builds it it'll be cheaper the the ORD doubler and just as strong/light.
-Andrew

[oldyellowwagoneer]

Where are you getting your shaft cut and splined at? And how much to do it? dennis

[Will Morris]

Dennis, I'm going to see if I can do it myself, but I really think it'll be cheaper and easier just to send it off to Moser Engineering and have them do it. Shouldn't cost more than $100 for them to do it and I've heard they have a quick turn around.

Will

[scotty]

moser gets $40 to cut/respline,so indeed it should be less than $100 shipping to and from moser,and for them to do the work smile.gif

will,are you making the whole 203 box to 205 adapter,or are you making an adapter to a factory adapter,like in the above link?

[Will Morris]

Scotty, I'm making the whole 203 box to 205 adapter. I really want to make one that is one piece. If I can get 5-6 people interested, then I can get the cost of aluminum down hopefully. With the cost down, it'll be milled out of one piece of aluminum instead of having to make it two pieces. I think two pieces would work fine, but it'd be much nicer to have it milled out of a solid chunk. If i can't get a couple people interested, then I'll have to make mine two piece to keep the cost of materials down to a reasonable level.

Will

[Mikel]

Will,
Why don't you post this at pirate4x4? I'm sure there would be quite a few people interested.
Mikel

Originally posted by Will Morris:
Scotty, I'm making the whole 203 box to 205 adapter. I really want to make one that is one piece. If I can get 5-6 people interested, then I can get the cost of aluminum down hopefully. With the cost down, it'll be milled out of one piece of aluminum instead of having to make it two pieces. I think two pieces would work fine, but it'd be much nicer to have it milled out of a solid chunk. If i can't get a couple people interested, then I'll have to make mine two piece to keep the cost of materials down to a reasonable level.

Will

[Elliott]

Best check with Moser on that shaft, they were origanally charging... what... $80 and then I thought I read somewhere they aren't doing the shaft anymore.
Might resort to getting the shaft (no pun intended) from ORD and building your adaptor to fit the length.
Getting the clocking issues right, or making in clockable for different needs is going to be trick.

[Will Morris]

Mikel, as you know I'm a student, so I don't have the money to do this up front. If I did, then I'd just go ahead and buy a lot of aluminum and make several adapters and put them up on Ebay. I need people who will put in the money for the materials up front so that I can get started on them, and I think that since I have plenty of references here, people would be willing to do that, but I'm not as well known around Pirate.

Elliot, I'll have provisions in it to clock my NP205. My NP205 has a round bolt pattern, so this will be easy to do. The 8 style will be much trickier, but so far no one with an 8 style NP205 has expressed any interest. I would've thought more people would be interested in something like this.

Will

[Elliott]

I am interested, but don't have the $$$ right now so I don't want to lead you on that I'll be here to help back it. I think it's great you are offering and do really appreciate it.
ORD only builds theirs for the round pattern, maybe for a reason?
I would be using a Ford 203 and Chevy 32 spline round pattern 205. Clockable is great, could help with some driveline issues.
I know you are not stirring a lot of interest yet, but the price is definately right on and your plan is great.... plus it saves me a lot of drawing. If I had the money in hand, this would be my answer because I kind of choke on what ORD wants for theirs.

[bigun]

Will I don't think it isa lack of interest perse but a lack of funds at this time Iknow that is my pr blem My buisness has gottenso bad I am wroking on new cover letter and resume if things change believe me I would be in line. Elliot you have to remeber that as a buisness ORD has Liabilty issues they have to cover along with every thing else so their stuff is going to be higher

[Will Morris]

Elliot and Bigun, thanks for the support. I won't need the money for a couple more weeks, and I'll probably just say material up front and then the rest when I actually finish them up. So far I've got two people interested that want one exactly like mine using a Ford NP203 and Ford NP205, so that's a good start. If a couple more people want to get in on this, then that'd be great. I still need atleast another week to do all the math and figure out how exactly I'll be building it.

Will

[Elliott]

While you map it out and check on shafts please check on doing a shaft from a Ford 203 to 32spline Chevy 205 also. I'll see what I can scrap up next month, what would you need up front for materials on just the plate?
Do you have access to a Chevy 205 with the adaptor to the TH400 to use in mock up?

[80258WT]

count me in. I have a ford 205 and a np435 out of a 79' F350.

I don't think i'd be interested if you use the ford 203 though, they are hard to come by in these parts. I'm not sure how many bolts the 205 i have has. BUt if i can save some $$$$ on having to use the ord driver side drop kit then i'll definatly go through you if it works out. And i'm ready whenever..... if you need a little money down from everybody for the machine work then i'll glady give you check or something.

Later,
TIm.

[scotty]

80258WT,will is only making the adapter from the 203 box to the 205,and the rear part of the 203,where the adapter will bolt is the same for all 203s-chebby,dodge and ford smile.gif so what 203 you use wont really matter as far as wills adapter is concerned

you will be on your own in adapting a different 203 to your 435. if a 31 spline 203 input gear is available new,you can prolly swap one into a common chebby 203 and then drill/tap the round mounting pattern into the face of it

also,a FYI,the adapter that will makes with the ford pattern(round NP pattern) on the 205 side should also work with a chevy 205 of the correct year,a dana 300,and possibly some dodge 205s. just have to have moser spline the 203 output shaft accordingly smile.gif

glad youre getting some interest in it,will,im anxious to see what you come up with :cool:

if i wasnt so poor,id prolly kick in as well,it would be super cool to have an adapter out of aluminum.

mine will be welded tubing and plate steel,it will be heavy,but hopefully work just as well.i plan on adding some extra x members to keep the 205 from breaking off ;)

make sure you keep me advised of your progress :D

[ December 07, 2003, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Crazy_Jeepman]

What about the FIG 8 205? Can you make that? Would this be the same thickness as the ORD one? I would be concerned that if not the same thickeness and could not have a shaft made then the one from ORD may not work. I would be interested but I would need to have a ball park idea as to what this is going to come in at.

[Will Morris]

Sorry guys, but it's been an exhausing weekend. You can read all about it: http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=018599 but I'll get another estimate from the metal supplier during the middle of this week so that I can let you all know how much it will be and it'll give me some time to finalize my design so that I will be able to tell you all exactly how it will be built. More to come, but my brain power is toast right now.

Thanks,
Will

[Hammer]

Man, just wishing I had the cash for this :(
Sounds like a great project though. And once you make them, I am sure more people will want one for a later order as well (read, hoping I can get in on a latter deal smile.gif )

[Will Morris]

Hammer, we'll see about round 2. I just got the word back from the aluminum supplier, and it looks like if we want to do one piece aluminum, then the cost is going to be $350. Don't blame me, blame the cost of aluminum. If people are not interested in that price, then please let me know. If you are still interested at that price, let me know and I'll give you the complete rundown of how this is all going to work.

Thanks,
Will

[scotty]

there is a guy on pirate selling what looks like a welded together steel adapter for $450. its prolly fairly heavy

$350 is a good deal for a lightweight,1 piece aluminum adapter :cool:

add $100 for shaft resplining,and you still have your doubler for round $250 less than an ORD kit

[Will Morris]

$450 for a welded steel adapter? I was talking to the machinist here at school today and he was talking about how we could make one out of steel plate and tubing and weld it and make one that was really bomb proof albeit heavier, but it would definitely be less than $450! :eek:

Will

[scotty]

yes,im sure in his case,most of the purchase price was for his time,not the cost of materials ;) ill have to try and find that link again.im pretty sure it was just an adapter and you were still responsible for resplining your own shaft :eek:

[bigun]

I don't understand the whole weight thing your hanging one of the heaviest transfer cases made in one of the heavest 4X4 made how much are you going to save using aluminum over steel

[Subconscious]

Ah, I just bought a 208 to rebuild to replace my 229, and now I see this.

[scotty]

Originally posted by bigun:
I don't understand the whole weight thing we try and do what we can to keep the weight additions to a minimum ;)

id love to have will make me a slick aluminum adapter,but 1)im poor :( ,and 2) i like the "do it yourself" challenge :D ,so ill be making my own adapter out of pieces of steel plate and tubing. i bet it will prolly weigh 3 times(or more) what wills adapter will weigh,but that prolly wont bother me too much,in the greater scheme of things,since ive removed weight from the chassis in other areas tongue.gif

[bigun]

Will I am notcutting you down wish you lots of luck it was just a questian that hit me as odd LOL

[over2land]

Is there a way to use a divorced case with this setup???

[Will Morris]

Originally posted by bigun:
Will I am notcutting you down wish you lots of luck it was just a questian that hit me as odd LOLNo offense taken. I know it may sound a little silly, but I'd like to cut weight where I can. I still have to legally tow the thing to the trails.

Originally posted by over2land:
Is there a way to use a divorced case with this setup???Unforutnately not that I know of.

In other news, I'm waiting to hear back another price on aluminum. Hopefully it'll be a little cheaper.

Will

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Originally posted by over2land:
Is there a way to use a divorced case with this setup???Actually there is. Divorced Doubler (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46104&item=2446400821) You could use a divorced T-Case of your choice. Only thing is your rig would probally need to be 30 FT long to get that all under there. I am interested in using the aluminum plate over the steel pipe with steel plates welded on each end due to lenght. The aluminum adapter would be a shorter setup, I would not care if it was made from steel. I doubt the weight differance is that much, my rig is so heavy now, a few more pounds is nothing. ;)

[ December 12, 2003, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Crazy_Jeepman ]

[full_hydro]

what's stronger, aluminum or steel?

how much lighter would aluminum be than steel?

what's the cost difference?

personally, my priorities on an adapter would be 1) strength 2) cost 3) weight...

these beasts aren't light to begin with, and a couple pounds isn't worth a strength sacrifice...

but if you can make an aluminum adapter as strong as steel, and relatively cheap... it'd be worth it... so where are the numbers?

[scotty]

i just looked at crazy jeepmans link. pretty slick. a friend of mine is planning dual t cases in his next project,and we had talked of doing just that at one time,and using a range box with an output yoke,in place of a married t case,since the front output on the 1st case is not needed anyway.

ford used divorced 203 cases pre-76,so a person could also attach a 205 to a divorced 203,and hang the whole thing behind the 2wd tranny of choice smile.gif that would simplify the part of mating the 203 to whatever tranny you plan on using ;)

[over2land]

Scotty that's what I'm talking about...

I have an OD trans from a M35 I wanna put in my 715, and there aren't too many adapters made by anyone for it. So, I am kinda stuck with the divorced setup. The divorced 203 would work nice for me...

Now, how to mate this to a GM 205 that came off a SM465?

[scotty]

unless its a late model 205/465 youre prolly better off finding a different version. the 465/205 used a male 10 spline input gear connected to the tranny output via a drive sleeve. according to ORD,the additional reduction,along with the stress of big ol' tires,will eventually twist off the 10 spline input shaft.

a stronger female spline input gear can be swapped into your 205 if you bore the case to accept the bigger bearing race.

[zsouthard]

am i too late? have you got your materials? im interested. dodge 203 to ford rond 205. email zsouthard2583@aol.com please let me know, im in need of an adapter in the next month.
thanks, zach.

[bigun]

I saw a dodge in a mag. a year or two ago that had a married 203 with a devorced 205 behind it no adapters just a short drive shaft the 203 was still complete. he said his truck was so long that he was able to equal length the drive shafts that way

[Will Morris]

Doubler Update: I'm back from school so I don't have access to the machine shop for another month. Since no one seems interested in the more expensive aluminum adapter, I'll find a cost for the steel adapter in a couple weeks.

Thanks,
Will

[over2land]

So, no luck on the other aluminum price then?

And would the steel one be machined, or welded?