water pump problems with radiator relocation

[robselina]

I moved the radiator to the back of the waggy, but I'm not getting adequate water circulation through the radiator.

I've heard of using restrictors in the bypass and radiator hoses, anyone got any details?

just use appropriately sized nuts?

It's a new rebuilt pump, do I need to look into an aftermarket one?

any other ideas?

Here's more details on the problem:

It's clearly a water flow problem since it's hot at the hose outlet near the t-stat and pretty much cold at the top inlet to the radiator.

Here are some shots of the install for general interest:

http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~offroad/denise/wag1.jpg
http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~offroad/denise/wag2.jpg
http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~offroad/denise/wag3.jpg

Here's a curiosity - as the engine warmed up, I started to feel a surge or pulse every second or so on the return line. This persisted after I turned the engine off for a minute or two. It would actually make the return line jump! I should mention that I pulled the plug on the t-stat when we filled the system so I know the block was full but we would have trapped some air in the return line above the engine that you can see in the first pic. Also worth mentioning is that I used dishwasher detergent to get the hoses over the galvanized EMT I used for couplings, and I'm sure this is having an effect on the coolant performance....

BTW, It's the stock radiator, stock pump and a 165 or 180 degree t-stat, pretty much new. Hoses are all 1.5" with a wire inside to prevent collapse.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to provide any pertinent details....

[ October 16, 2005, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: robselina ]

[robselina]

don't know why but my pics aren't showing....here are links to them:

http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~offroad/denise/wag1.jpg

http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~offroad/denise/wag2.jpg

http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~offroad/denise/wag3.jpg

[Desert Beast]

How do you know that there’s not enough circulation? Is it overheating? Once I got all the air out of my system I have had no problems (other than air circulation problems), now granted I have a BBC pump not a jeep one. But my guess is that there’s still air in the system.

Just make sure you bleed the system at the highest points. (Which looks like at the top of the engine and the upper rad)

It can take a while to get all the air out. It’s a pain in the *** .

[rockjeep44]

You are right that you have having a flow problem but I can promise you that it is not the water pumps fault. You still have air in the system. I spent a total of about 16 hours getting my cooling system to work right so I know exactly what you're dealing with. No matter what I did (jack rear end way up and bleed, jack front end way up and bleed, etc) I could not get all the air out of the system. Finally I installed a pepcock in the highest point of the upper radiator hose, started the truck, and opened it. I was amazed at all the air that came out before any fluid came out. Then I shut it off and it cooled great. Now if I ever bust a hose or something offroad I know I can fix and bleed the thing without a d*mn forklift.

[Stuka]

Yup, andrew is on the money there. With having such long lines, there is going to be a TON of air in the system. The pepcock is the way to go. Once the system is full of coolant, there shouldent be any flow issues. If there is, you can restrict the bypass some, as line pressure will increase with the longer hose and the radiator being higher up.

BTW: Been a long time since we have seen any picts of the waggy. Looks almost like KYJ20's rig now ;)

[robselina]

cool, thanks guys. I'm planning on pulling some of the tubing on monday since my exhaust guy is convinced he can bend me some hard lines to replace the rubber ones that are near the exhaust, I'll put a petcock in at the same time so I know I'm getting rid of that air bubble at the front of the rig.

[robselina]

Originally posted by Stuka:

BTW: Been a long time since we have seen any picts of the waggy. Looks almost like KYJ20's rig now ;) yea, not as cool as Dennis or Rob B's but it'll do :D Next big mod will be 37" Krawlers and double beadlocks....

[Dan G]

This would take care of it for sure...

The Automatic Air Vent EA122 is suitable for heating systems and other hot water systems (not potable water) which require the efficient automatic removal of air from water. The vacuum break on the bottom of the valve prevents an air lock forming and encourages air to be released from water. The air vent can be fitted anywhere in the positive pressure side of the system where
air is likely to be trapped.

http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/Catalogue/Non%20Electric/5.3%20EA122.pdf

[KYJ10]

I second the air in lines. My first time I had the same problem. After the air was out, it cooled fine. On my new setup, I have one connection on the hot side, and it runs across a valve cover. I just seperated the ends, filled them both, and it worked fine. I like the way things are looking. Dennis

[Robber80]

for some reason i never had trouble bleeding the air out of my system. I just filled the radiator, started the motor and kept filling until it over flowed.

the only thing i did special with mine was place it the same height as the stock radiator in relation to the water pump.

[robselina]

it's at the exhaust shop getting some new hardlines bent to replace some of the rubber lines and I'm having them weld in valves at the same time. I should have it back tomorrow and I"m sure that'll take care of it.

The more I thought about it, I'm sure you guys are right about the air. If you look closely, the line from the radiator to the water pump has a high spot in it above the fuel cell, and I KNOW I trapped air there...feel stupid for not thinking about that in the first place but that's what this place is for :D Once we get the air bubble out of there and the top of the engine I should be ready to rock and roll....

BTW, Taurus fans are wicked strong, I'm amazed how much air that thing pulls, at least 3X-4X what the stock fan did....

[robselina]

follow up question about the heater core line: I bypassed the heater core and just ran a hose from the outlet at the back of the engine to the water pump. Is this the 'right' thing to do or should that line be just capped off or restricted?

BTW, new hard lines made from aluminized exhaust tubing and it seems to be circulating just fine now :D Haven't done a long enough test yet to see what kind of temps I get but it definitely is pushing water nowadays...

[ October 18, 2005, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: robselina ]

[robselina]

new hardlines installed with pepcocks at both high points in the system. It runs COOL now, maybe even too cool :D (seriously) Temp seems to be pegged at 160-ish on the trail (I have a 165 t-stat, need a 180 apparently) and when I pick up speed on the drive home it drops even lower, to around 140!

Thanks for the help guys,

Rob

[ October 19, 2005, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: robselina ]

[KYJ10]

I did the same thing on my heater hose. Ive had no issues.

[bigun]

Rob are your fans switched or are you using the thermal switch?

[robselina]

Originally posted by bigun:
Rob are your fans switched or are you using the thermal switch?manually switched. The fan only works on high speed (fan's the problem, not wiring) for some reason, so if it's on, it's ON. I've got another Taurus fan I'll test and maybe swap in if it has both speeds, 'cause 'high' is pretty ridiculous for most driving...

[bigun]

Considering the number of amps they pull on start they must flow a bunch! So you going to hang the rino front on this one?

[robselina]

sold the rhino to cover about 1/2 my upgrade costs :D

[bigun]

It's neat when the rig pays for it's own upgrades

[robselina]

Originally posted by bigun:
It's neat when the rig pays for it's own upgradesyea, I was racking my brain if there was anything else of value I was taking out but most of it ended up in the junk pile. I've got some diamond plate interior panels that may be of use to someone, but the rest of it seemed like scrap...

[bigun]

The same with mine except all that might be worth saving would be the doors and glass!

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by rockjeep44:
You are right that you have having a flow problem but I can promise you that it is not the water pumps fault. You still have air in the system. I spent a total of about 16 hours getting my cooling system to work right so I know exactly what you're dealing with. No matter what I did (jack rear end way up and bleed, jack front end way up and bleed, etc) I could not get all the air out of the system. Finally I installed a pepcock in the highest point of the upper radiator hose, started the truck, and opened it. I was amazed at all the air that came out before any fluid came out. Then I shut it off and it cooled great. Now if I ever bust a hose or something offroad I know I can fix and bleed the thing without a d*mn forklift.Use a Robert Shaw modified thermostat...it has small holes in the body and will bleed the air off naturally.

[robselina]

Originally posted by Joe Guilbeau:
Use a Robert Shaw modified thermostat...it has small holes in the body and will bleed the air off naturally.cool idea. any idea where to find such a thing?

[rockjeep44]

Well I wouldn't say naturally because the air still has to go somewhere but those kind of thermostats help. You don't need the bling bling Robert Shaw ones though. I got the standard shiot from Advance Auto parts and they come with a hole like you speak of but the hole is plugged. Just drill that out and blammo.

[Joe Guilbeau]

The air will rise to the top of system, in this particular case you are right, it will not help that much.

In all other stock cases, the top will be the radiator top tank, and since this is the uppermost area in the closed loop system the air will "Naturally" be trapped there....not to put too fine a point on it :confused:

Those Robert Shaw modified thermostats can be purchased from Stewart.
http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Pr oduct_Code=301&Category_Code=Therm (http://www.stewartcomponents.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=301&Category_Code=Therm)

[ October 23, 2005, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: Joe Guilbeau ]

[robselina]

ah, I assumed it had a modified t-stat housing that it vented through. In this case, I'll live with what I've got...