Differences in GM14 Bolts?

[Big Blue J-10]

What are the differences between the single rear wheel 14bolt and the dually 14bolt?Might be dumb question,but I'am trying to learn all that I can ;)
Adam

[robselina]

not sure about the difference between the dually and single, but I can tell you that the van version is wider than the truck version.

[scotty]

single rear wheel=67.5 inch WMS to WMS
van=70" WMS
dually pick-up is 72" WMS
cab&chassis=64" WMS

the SRW and C&C axles use the same housing and same axleshafts,with the difference in WMS being the hub mounts the wheel further outboard on the SRW

the van will also have the perches in a differnet spot. all pickups have the perches at about 42" apart from 73 onward.72 and earlier have them at 40,but youll find a d60 in the rear of a 3/4 ton truck from 72 back

internally,only change was the inner pinion bearing and crush sleve were updated in '88

some of the later(late 80s,early 90s and up) you could get factory disc brakes and the drums slide over the hub,instead of being attached to it,like the earlier ones.

ive now seen 2 types of locknuts for the hub. the axle im running in my jeep has a keyway and a snap ring with a single nut. the ones ive just picked up for parts have 2 nuts and a locking tab,like the front.

thats about it.i wouldnt be surprised if the van and dually pickup axles use the same housing and shafts,with diffetent hubs,but ive never verified that,so its just speculation.

thats one great thing bout a 14 bolt-they are not near as much of a PITA to shop for as as a d60 or d70. other that the above differences,they are the same thruout the years from 73 to present smile.gif

also,this pertains to civilian trucks. hopefully FSJeeper will speak up on some minor differences in military trucks

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I just measured my 14 bolt, I came out with 70.5 WMS to WMS. Now I need to find out what the front Dually D60 is, I think its a lot wider. More than the 72" I was under the impression it would be. :(

[Stuka]

Pete, run some hummer wheels, will suck the tires in so they dont stick a foot outside of each fender smile.gif

Just as a side note there is also a semi full float version of the 14 bolt called the 14C that you dont want to get. It came on some heavy half tons and some light 3/4 tons.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I am looking at several options on custom wheels or Hummer Wheels. If I have a big differance in the WMS front to back like I am thinking I do, I will go with a custom wheel and run different back spacing for the front and rear axle. The big thing about the Hummer wheels that bother me is they are not legal!!!! :( Hate to set my rig up with them only to get pulled off the road because of them. :mad: Then again, maybe they will be leagal by the time I get this thing DONE!!! :rolleyes:

[Stuka]

whats not legal about hummer wheels? Hummers all over the USA are sold with them from the factory for civilian use. Meaning they HAVE to be approved. FSJeeper uses them, as well as many other people. Unless hummers arent street legal in your state?

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Ahh! I was meaning the Bead Lock style the only ones I wanted, as far as I know they are NOT Legal anywhere. The wheels FSJeeper has is what I wanted, and no they are not legal for road use. Unless I have been missinformed, but I don't think so.

[tomd]

Originally posted by Crazy_Jeepman:
Ahh! I was meaning the Bead Lock style the only ones I wanted, as far as I know they are NOT Legal anywhere. The wheels FSJeeper has is what I wanted, and no they are not legal for road use. Unless I have been missinformed, but I don't think so.I thought the hummer beadlocks were the ONLY street legal ones? Dunno, i could be wrong though...

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Could be, I have not gotten the info first hand, its all hear say at this point. I will be looking into it before I spend the $$$$ on anything.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Ok I did find out the Hummer Bead Locks are Legal. I feel better now!! ;)

[netbear]

Hummer beadlocks are DOT approved for highway
use. Mine have the DOT stampings on them as
well. Should not be a problem.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Originally posted by netbear:
Hummer beadlocks are DOT approved for highway
use. Mine have the DOT stampings on them as
well. Should not be a problem.Great, send me yours so I can try em out!!! :D :D :D

[FSJeeper]

As far as the military 14 bolts are concerned, the only differences I see is that they come stock with 4.56's and a detroit. Everything else is standard 1 ton stuff. The spring pad width are the pre 73 width and different than the 3/4 ton width, either way, you have to move them as well as the shock mounts to make a 14 bolt work in a FSJ.

Hummer rims are street legal. The only other beadlock rims street legal as far as I know of are the new Rok Loks but be ready to mortgage your house.

The Hummer rims are fantastic and you also get a runflat in addition to the beadlock. The way the Hummer rims lock the beads on you could literaly shread your tire in rocks but the bead portion of the sdiewalls would still stay locked in place. They are not going anywhere.

[FSJeeper]

To run Hummer rims with a Dana 60 and 14 bolt all you need is dually axles. The Hummer rims bolt on and do not interfere with anything.

Pete, I have a few extra sets of Dana 60 Dually Hubs if you are interested. And hey, I want that NP205 PTO HYDRO pump!

Here are PICs of D60/14 bolt dually axles with Hummer rims on them on a choptop:

http://froadin.com/pascal/m715_wag3.jpg

http://froadin.com/pascal/m715_wag1.jpg

http://froadin.com/pascal/m715_wag2.jpg

The best Hummer beadlock rims are the radial 2 piece civilian models used in the mid 90's. They use a solid rubber 1 piece beadlock/runflat and will not shread oversize tires the way the mag ones will.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

LOL Pascal I need to keep that PTO setup to run the hydraulic winch, but I will keep a watch out and see if anything else like it surfaces. Now what rear axle did you use on your rig? I have the front Dually D60 axle, but have a feeling it is much wider than the 72" I thought it was. I was not able to find a 14 bolt from a Dually pick up, but I did get one from a Van with a WMS to WMS of 70 1/2" What I want to know is there different Dually Spacers for the front. I think I have a 76 1/2" WMS to WMS on the front. I need to pull the wheels to get the actual measurement

[Stuka]

pete: what happened to the 14FF from the tow truck?

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Originally posted by Stuka:
pete: what happened to the 14FF from the tow truck?It was way to Narrow!! 44" between backing plates. I traded it for the Van version of the 14 bolt. Now there is room for the U-bolt between spring and backing plate. ;)

[ May 07, 2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Crazy_Jeepman ]

[FSJeeper]

Crazy,

It has been a long time since I measured my dually front, but I am almost sure it came in right at 72" wide because I wanted it to be the same width as an M715 front Dana 60 and it was.

I used a standard CUCV single wheel rear 14 bolt and dually adapters which put the width out to 72" also.

The Van axle should work with the Hummer rims.

[Big Blue J-10]

Thanks for all the info!
Adam

[seadog]

How do you make the 14 bolt work,as our or at least my cherokee has offcentered pumpkin.I guess you would have to get the wide one and have one side cut or what?I have decided on a 14 bolt because they are a little cheaper.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

For me its easy, I removed the gas tank and will go with a rear mounted tank.

[netbear]

What exactly are "dually adaptors" and are
there ones for front D60s and rear D60s?
Can anyone post some specs and pics of
these things?

[scotty]

they are basically a spacer. they bolt to the hub,and have their own set of studs pressed in for the wheel to bolt to. in the case of the dually adapter,in addition to spacing the wheels out,the studs for the wheels are converted to the big fat ones that a dually uses

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Originally posted by FSJeeper:
Crazy,

It has been a long time since I measured my dually front, but I am almost sure it came in right at 72" wide because I wanted it to be the same width as an M715 front Dana 60 and it was.

I used a standard CUCV single wheel rear 14 bolt and dually adapters which put the width out to 72" also.

The Van axle should work with the Hummer rims.Well I finally measured the front D60 WMS to WMS, :eek: :eek: 77" is what I have compared to the 70 1/2" rear. I went to the Junk yard and found 3 more D60 as well as a 2 wheel drive 1 ton, All had 77" WMS to WMS on the front end. Is there a shorter extension? I asked a few guys this and they said not that they knew off. 7" differance is to much for me. Options I guess are run two offsets, or see if I can have the front extensions shortened.

[Stuka]

The front axle is supposed to be wider then the rear for turning radius reasons. Our J-Trucks are one of the only pickups I have seen that have a wider rear then front. Van's and such do, but they arent pickups hehe.

Cant you just take the dually extenders off? That should get rid of 2 inches or so from each side?

[Crazy_Jeepman]

No they are a lot longer than 2" per side. If I take them out I would have a heck of a long hub sticking out of the center and be narrower than the rear. I forget the length of the extension but it is quite a bit, 5" or so. I am going to have to take them in and have them cut down. No way do I want a 77" WMS to WMS on the front.

[Midnightwagon]

WOW!!!! 77" i didnt think they came tht wide!!

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Originally posted by Midnightwagon:
WOW!!!! 77" i didnt think they came tht wide!!Yea the front D60 from the dually 1 ton seems to be all 77"!! I measured a few more trying to see if there were any shorter extensions. No luck yet, I am taking the extensions off to see if I can get them shortened.

[scotty]

the extension is part of the hub. the dually and single wheel axles actually take the same rotors,with the differnce in WMS being in the hubs.

crazy have you tried putting up posts anywhere you can tink of(id start with general 4x4 discussion at pirate 4x4) to se if eomeone wants to trade you some single wheel hubs for your duallys? there are likely some guys with single wheel axles that want to run hummer rims and would gladly swap you...

[GreenMachine]

FSJeeper did you have to modify your springs or convert to discs on your 14bolt to fit it to the width of the 715 springs?

Also on the front I measured like 37" on the width between the perches and i believe chevy used 32" did that cause a problem in the front or did you just weld on new perches and go? I am guessing the spring doesn't sit on the chunk of your dually axle?

I am probably going to begin my axle swap this weekend if I can get the motor installed, and while I have looked at it I haven't pulled the old axles and started the process yet of sizing everyhting up.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Originally posted by scotty:
crazy have you tried putting up posts anywhere you can tink of(id start with general 4x4 discussion at pirate 4x4) to se if eomeone wants to trade you some single wheel hubs for your duallys? there are likely some guys with single wheel axles that want to run hummer rims and would gladly swap you...I am going to run Hummer Wheels as well, just not at 77" when the rear is 70 1/2" :rolleyes: I will have themm shortened

[FSJeeper]

Originally posted by GreenMachine:
FSJeeper did you have to modify your springs or convert to discs on your 14bolt to fit it to the width of the 715 springs?

Also on the front I measured like 37" on the width between the perches and i believe chevy used 32" did that cause a problem in the front or did you just weld on new perches and go? I am guessing the spring doesn't sit on the chunk of your dually axle?

I am probably going to begin my axle swap this weekend if I can get the motor installed, and while I have looked at it I haven't pulled the old axles and started the process yet of sizing everyhting up.On a wagoneer or Cherokee you do not have to convert to rear discs, on the J trucks and M715's you do have to convert to discs to clear the springs with the Chevy standard single wheel 14 bolt.