HELP CAT Converter CHERRY RED

[KBWoodwgn]

Hey all,
I just installed my new exhaust today. I put in a new cat, muffler and tailpipe. I got it all hooked up and started her up and she sounds great...and no exhaust fumes creapin up in the cab anymore..We didn't see any leaks sounds great I pull it out and start my way home(not a mile away...sitting at a light I start seein some white smoke...and getting that Hot new metal smell..I figure it's just breaking in...drive the rest of the way home not getting above 25 mph...when I got here I left the jeep running and looked underneath just to give it one more look for leaks...well the Cat converter is Cherry red on the back end :eek: What's up with that? It has to be dangerous..could start a fire? Did I do something wrong? Did I get a bad Cat? Help quick this is my Daily driver.
kb

[CowKiller]

BAD KITTY! NO!

hehe
sorry felt like doing that.

it might be from just being new. or it is screwed up.

i dont know, just hed to do that first part.

[KBWoodwgn]

Is it feasible that the old one was soo bad that there is a build of of crap that this new one has to burn off? And once it has this will clear up?

[mdill]

Sounds like the Wagon is running too rich, and the cat is just burning the
extra off as it should. Not a good thing to have happening, you are going
to have to figure out if it is a carb-or ignition problem (a dead cyl, dumping
its unburned fuel will also do the same thing.

Mike D.

[KBWoodwgn]

OK, so I suspected it was running rich even before I did this change. So when I was done putting in the exhaust system I pulled the air cleaner to adjust the carb...I was looking for two screws on the front of the carb. I have read that these screws are how you adjust the mixture...I don't see these screws anywhere...figured I'd research on here and solve that another day soon. I didn't expect the cherry red cat to be related...SO where are those screws this is a Stock carb so I assume a 2b 2150?

[Brown Bear]

A cherry red cat is a very bad thing. You can easily start a fire inside your truck. I would really hesitate driving it till I got it solved, if I was you.

Runnin rich can cause the cat to overheat. The mixture screws are under the bowl, towards the front of the engine. They are a little hard to see, and you need to be careful when making the adjust, usualy with a really long and thin slotted screwdriver, so you don't hit the fan while adjusting them. The engine needs to be running and warm while doing these adjustments. Right turn is lean, left is rich. You may also want to check your choke as well.

[joe]

If nobody has messed with the mix screws before they'll have a cover over them that you need to drill into and then knock/pry out. Before you mess with those though(they shouldn't need messing with) find out what's causing the richness. Choke not opening, bad ign system/wires/cap etc. If you've got an ign prob and have to keep your foot into the carb more to compensate and you then change the carb settings even more to get over the ign prob you end up with one really out of whack carb. :(
You're running rich for sure but find out why before making a bunch of carb adjustments or your next post will be "why are these MC carbs such a POS?" when it may not even be a carb prob. Choke not opening fully is likely though.
When was the last time you did a tune up...plugs, cap, rotor, wires, air filter etc? Yeah I know it's the era of the 100,000 mile tune-ups, fuel injected, electronic, computer controlled Toyota Corollas but these rigs aren't from that era. The 360 was out long before the point/shoot/disposable thing came out smile.gif

[andy d]

what caused the exact thing in my 84 was a weak coil. if you havent melted the core of the cat, you will in pretty short order. dont mess around, get it fixed. the screws in the front are IDLE mixture screws. if the plugs are still there, no one has screwed with them, dont start. its possible there is a restriction in the exhaust, but that would make it run poorly. it may be a low float. but i would look to the scene of my latest repair. how long has it been since you did the tfi upgrade?

[Rande]

As Andy said, those screws are IDLE mixture screws. I'm no carb expert but the problem has to be something others than those screws. Float level is the first thing I would check. If the float has absorbed some gas (not really uncommon), it will ride low and allow gas to be forced into the intake.

The choke should be checked for proper operation. A partially closed choke will certainly cause a rich condition.

Another item to check would be the power valve. It adjusts the fuel mixture to compensate for rpm, I beleive. Holleys use them and I think some of our carbs have them also. It may be blown.

[reddog]

Pull the vacuum hose that is on the front bottom center of the carb. If there is ANY fuel there your power valve is blown. Rebuild the carb. I drove my 87 with the power valve blown for a week and the excess fuel burned thru the exhaust manifold.

Kerry

[KBWoodwgn]

Jeep Was tuned up this past Summer, with New Blaster 2 coil,plugs, wires Dist cap and rotor..I'll check to see if I have a plug that's not firing but it seems to be running too good for that to be the case..I'll also check the power valve...and float...I don't know if this is a clue...when I took off the air cleaner cover the other day there was liquid in there...It smelled like water but my first guess was gas? Then in the top of the oil fill tube was a white foam....dipstick level was full and oil looked clean? Do you think that is related to my problem here?

[andy d]

did the dip stick smell gassy? thats a sign of richness if all this rig sees is short trips then maybe the white foam is moisture. if not the foam could be a coolant leak. what do the sparkplugs look like? if they are white , they've been steam cleaned. if they are black , thats too rich. good luck.

[KBWoodwgn]

I'm at work until 3 PM est. I'll pull some plugs when I get home and add that to the list of things to check..

[joe]

Originally posted by KBWoodwgn:
Then in the top of the oil fill tube was a white foam....dipstick level was full and oil looked clean? Do you think that is related to my problem here?Nah, that's real common in the winter especially if the truck is just run short hops. It takes a while(miles) at full operating temps to burn off the normal condensation/moisture out of the oil. Unless you're losing coolant I wouldn't worry about the white stuff in the fill tube.

[KBWoodwgn]

Thanks Joe...having headgaskets go on two of my previous cars I was a little nervous...I have read that these rigs aren't prone to that particular problem so that eased my concern a bit in that sense...If you guys think of any checks or adjustments I might need to make to resolve my problem I'd appreciate it...and of course I'd prefer to not have to buy any parts at this point.

[joe]

Ok mind you I know absolutely nothing about catalitic converters so this is a real long shot...but aren't there two different kinds where one type has two inlets and one has three for an added air line or something? Is it possible that you have the wrong cat and that it needs that third fitting and you're not stuffing enough air into it? Hopefully someone here can maybe help or straighten out the mess I just created. I remember I went to buy a new one once for another rig and was asked if it was type 1 or 2 or something like that. I didn't know so I cut the muffler out also and bagged the new cat idea and put in a glasspack smile.gif

[KBWoodwgn]

Hey Joe,
It's the threeway Cat 2 1/2" in 2 1/2 " out and an air tube on the side. The flow direction is correct and the air tube is hooked up good and tight...

[joe]

Oh well...it was worth a shot smile.gif

[DerJeep]

I helped Keith with this problem yesterday and after adjusting the choke settings noticed that the choke was not opening after warm up. Ran power directly to the choke heater from the battery and it opened, so that was OK. The wires turned out OK both to and from the oil pressure sending unit. Oil pressure gauge pegs to max with the engine running, so I am deducing that the sending unit is bad. Ran a TEMPORARY bypass for the choke heater until he can replace the sending unit. The converter does not glow anymore.

[timmirvin]

SOOOOO...can a knucklehead (like myself) who decides to run his rich-running 2150 anyway, just flat mess up a CAT to the extent that it must be replaced??

I don't think that it was ever so bad that the CAT glowed. But my 2150 kicked my but for several hundred miles........

All I know about those things is that they take up space in front of the Mufflers....

tim

[DerJeep]

In short...yes.

[Brown Bear]

Originally posted by timmirvin:
SOOOOO...can a knucklehead (like myself) who decides to run his rich-running 2150 anyway, just flat mess up a CAT to the extent that it must be replaced??

I don't think that it was ever so bad that the CAT glowed. But my 2150 kicked my but for several hundred miles........

All I know about those things is that they take up space in front of the Mufflers....

timYou can set your carpet on fire.....wonder what roasting shag smells like anyways.

[Brown Bear]

OOOOOOH, just had another thought, you could also melt the core, plug the cat even worse, build up pressure, or have it melt and collapse while you're driving giving instant cloggage, which i imagine could give you a rather unpleasant explosion under your truck....fun, fun, fun...

[Serious Johnson]

From what you describe I can confidently say it's definately NOT just the idle mixture. Cats can run hot & melt slowly with a way too lean mixture (usually won't glow red), or quickly if way too rich.

Thing is, these old-tech machines have to be set-up almost perfectly if the cat's to survive at all. Clogged muffler or air filter can do it, as can a blown power valve, sticking choke, weak coil, retarded timing, bad plug/wire, low float, vacuum leak, changing altitude, etc., etc.

About all I can suggest is fitting a bypass test pipe and fiddling until the tune is just right before reinstalling the cat. Of course, access to a tailpipe sniffer or chassis dyno would much simplify things.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

:-

PS: Forgot to mention that fitting a too-small converter could cause exactly what you're seeing.

[ February 03, 2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Serious Johnson ]

[timmirvin]

Wonder what a "tailpipe sniffer" costs?????

Bet you could sure tune a carb to a 'TEE' with one!!

[Serious Johnson]

Originally posted by timmirvin:
Wonder what a "tailpipe sniffer" costs?????

Bet you could sure tune a carb to a 'TEE' with one!!Probably a lot! Just about as good would be a high-resolution O2 sensor just aft of the "Y" pipe, and an in-car air/fuel ratio gauge. Still probably $150 or so.

:-

[KBWoodwgn]

Hey Guys
Thanks for all the help..turned out that the Electric heater for the joke wasn't getting power from the oil pressure sensor... DerJeep and I put a jumper in the connector(bypassing the OPS) now the heater works..no more Rich no more red cat..