gusseting a d44?

[Mavawreck]

i dont know if this is a possibility, but it seems to me that for drag racing and stuff they reinforce the housings. why couldnt that be dont to a set of axles instead of doing an expensive swap? it might not be as strong as a d60, but would it be more usable?

[blt2krl]

You can brace housings but the axle shafts still stay the same size ;)

[River Beast]

gussets are good... but nothing beats the beef of a 60.... ;) it will be stonger, but you still dont have the thickness in the tubes

here are some pics of what happens on catching good grip with 38's on a D44... :eek:

I pinched the tubes...

http://home.earthlink.net/~rbnrby/images/axle01a.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~rbnrby/images/axle02a.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~rbnrby/images/axle04a.jpg

[scotty]

i also pinched up the tubes on my rear 44,even worse than that :eek: ive also broken spider gears,an axleshaft,and heres what a good friend of mine did to his 44 pinion when he applied too much throttle at the wrong time with an IH 345,a t19/d300 and 38" TSLs ;) :

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/Technical/brknpinion1.JPG

no matter what you do to "beef up" a 44 it is still going to have the same size pinion(1.31") as a d30 and d35. i installed a gm 14 bolt when cause i was tired of fixing my rear 44.

having said all that,i agree with you 100% on the effectiveness of trussing the housing,no matter what axle youre gonna run. having a straight housing is something overlooked and not considered by alot of folks.

heres what i did to my front 10 bolt:
http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/Technical/10bolttruss2.jpg

i also put some braces on the inner knuckles to keep the Cs from bending. some more pics of it here:
http://nightcrawlers4wd.20megsfree.com/photo6.html

[tomd]

There are other gains to axle swaps though, Width is very handy, with NT axles, tires can get awful close to the rear springs, and the tub is a PITA (rear wheelwell)

[FSJ Thing]

I like this thread. Everyone knows bigger axles are better, but IF your lucky, you MIGHT find a set if cucv axles for $800, but for most of us, it's alot more practical and realistic to spend $100 on some scrap plate and welding rods/wire and go to town on what we have. Someday I'll step up to D60/14FF or 2.5s, but until I have that kinda cash, I'm going to truss my D44s and wheel 'em till they break.

[phill]

I see a lot of people who have pinched tubs on 44's are running 38's. This is why 44's are only rated to 35 inch tires. You need to consider vehicle weight, tire size, and engine torque when choosing an axle. A ford 9 inch axle is also a very good option. It’s stronger than 44, offers way more clearance than a 60, and if you don’t think 31 spline shafts can handle the power, you can get 35 spline shafts for it. You also need to consider the jeep's unsprung weight. A Dana 60 weighs a lot and drags over everything. If the 44 can handle the tires and vehicle weight, but you like to mash the throtle you can get a full floating ket for your dana 44.

[jode]

[rash, but true generalization]
Trussing is for jumping
Dana 60s are for crawling.
[/rash, but true generalization]

It's like blt2Krl said:
Originally posted by blt2krl:
You can brace housings but the axle shafts still stay the same size ;) And I might add - so do the u-joints :cool:

[full_hydro]

if you want a housing to be stronger, bracing and gussetting it will be a lot cheaper than just buying a dana 60 to replace it.

and if you have a dana 60 and 14 bolt, you might consider bracing them as well.. even though they are the cat's meow.. they can still be tweaked..

unfortunately we can't all have sweet 1 ton axles.. so let's see some bracing!

[blt2krl]

Originally posted by full_hydro:
if you want a housing to be stronger, bracing and gussetting it will be a lot cheaper than just buying a dana 60 to replace it.

and if you have a dana 60 and 14 bolt, you might consider bracing them as well.. even though they are the cat's meow.. they can still be tweaked..

unfortunately we can't all have sweet 1 ton axles.. so let's see some bracing!I have some I can sell ya. :D

[jode]

Blt2Krl - what do you have? - and what are you asking?

[Mavawreck]

Originally posted by jode:
[QB][rash, but true generalization]
Trussing is for jumping
Dana 60s are for crawling.
[/rash, but true generalization]
]i dont think they are only for jumping, reinforcing the tubes would REDUCE the chance of the tubes pinching, and in a more rigid case the axles might have a less chance of shearing off. after talkin with todd for awhile on the matter, effectively reinforcing the axles to strenghten them and reduce axles wrap would be a lot of fabrication, but i think that it could still be a good option for some, thank you for the informative posts yall. scotty, that axles looks awesome.

[jode]

Very true Mavawreck, but it is like they say.....

Originally posted by jode:
It's like blt2Krl said:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blt2krl:
You can brace housings but the axle shafts still stay the same size ;) And I might add - so do the u-joints :cool: </font>[/QUOTE]

[gp_frk]

Originally posted by jode:
Very true Mavawreck, but it is like they say.....

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jode:
It's like blt2Krl said:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blt2krl:
You can brace housings but the axle shafts still stay the same size ;) And I might add - so do the u-joints :cool: </font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]way to add a wealth of knowledge there big guy ;)

[Mavawreck]

i saw that, you dont need to quote yourself, i agree with your point several other people said the same thing before you. but not everyone can afford to bust out with some new axles, i understand some of the limitations, what i was going for was different ways to reinforce the axles, kinda building on what ya got. Do you have any pictures or ideas on gusseting axles?

[jode]

So sorry - Not trying to be a chump... it just seemed that the point wasn't getting across(I agree though that quoting myself doesn't really help to further the cause :( ). RB was running 38s before he ran into any housing problems...keep that in mind.

People having problems with their 44 housings seem to be few and far between (except for the guys doing those tough truck competitions). I don't have Dana 60s on my rig either (though I would like them). Like you, I can't afford them. However, I am not even considering a truss. For my limited money, I would think that shaft/u-joint upgrades would be more of a realworld upgrade to a 44 than a truss. However, if you want to truss your 44, go right ahead. Moslty what you see (for trusses) is a tall straight peice of sheetmetal that runs lengthwise with the axle with a "T" at the top (sort of like an I-beam). Some people drill holes in them to save weight. The long side of the axle tube is the side with the most torque applied to it and will need the majority of the trussing. Mechanically speaking, the taller the truss is up off the axle, the more rigid it will be and the better it will be able to withstand the forces that want to push the tubes upward (like when you land from some big air).

[Damage, Inc.]

Trussing will make the case stronger, meaning it's less likely to twist or bend, which will be helpful...PERIOD.
However, and as everyone is quick to point out, the internals are still a weakness of the D44. You can get stronger shafts and ujoints, but by that time, you're well on to a D60.

Bottom line? Run your D44, truss it, and leave it stock and drive it. When it breaks, repair it. If/when you get tired of it breaking, buy the D60...it's really ludicrous right now...$1500 for a D60 when a D44 can be had for nothing.

[scotty]

Originally posted by jode:

Trussing is for jumping
i bent up my tubes worse than RB did,and i have never jumped my rig. normal wheeling does and will pinch tubes and bend housings. people thot i was nuts for trussing my 14 bolt,but IMO a straight housing is very important. alot of seemingly odd repeat prollems with seals,bearings,or shaft breakage can likely be attributed to a tweaked or bent housing,wether the axle is a dana 30,a dana 60,or whatever.

Originally posted by phill:
A ford 9 inch axle is also a very good option.got to argue with you here. the ford 9" has GOT to be the most over-rated axle in the history of axles ;)

you get less clearance than a 44,a pinion thats lower than any other axle out there,and 31 splines at best with a stocker. also you will rip the 3rd member out with big tires/high HP and lots of abuse,unless you spend a bunch of $$ on a nodular center,and even that does not gaurantee that it wont happen.

the bottom line is that youll have to spend ALOT of $$ on a ford 9" to even come close to the strength of a GM 14 bolt,wich can be purchased anywhere from free to $150.

[ April 05, 2004, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[scotty]

Originally posted by jode:

I don't have Dana 60s on my rig either (though I would like them). Like you, I can't afford them. However, I am not even considering a truss. For my limited money, I would think that shaft/u-joint upgrades would be more of a realworld upgrade to a 44 than a truss.
id like to know where you can get bigger shafts and u joints for a 44 for "limited money" ;) a good friend of mine decided that warn shafts and OX joints were prolly a more practical upgrade than a front d60 for the 44 in his YJ. he got a bit of $$ knocked off from buying them all at once(inners,stubs,and OX joints),and still spent $700 :eek:

a truss can be made with $15 worth of scrap metal,or less. to use jodes techinque of getting my point across :D

Originally posted by scotty:
IMO a straight housing is very important. alot of seemingly odd repeat prolems with seals,bearings,or shaft breakage can likely be attributed to a tweaked or bent housing,wether the axle is a dana 30,a dana 60,or whatever.
i also do things on a very limited budget. thats why i run a 14 bolt in the rear(paid $50 for it) and a trussed 10 bolt up front(bigger pinion than a 44,and waaaay easier to find cheap used parts for.)

while i do break 297x-sized joints on occasion,anyone is perfectly welcome to come ride with me over a 3 day weekend and see just how much abuse the front axle takes tongue.gif

[ April 05, 2004, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[shredby4]

Mavawreck
Look at it this way, a truss shouldn't HURT the axle...so go for it! A straight housing is a GOOD thing. A buddy of mine has bent housing on his YJ...One day it caused his axle shaft to break (wore through, nice groove) and his tire passed him on I-77 in Charlotte. (for those that want to know, he was fine. the yj just slowed down and came to rest on the open axle tube)

Keep the tire size 35 or under and save up for 14 bolt...That's my plan anyway. ;) It's the most axle for the money.

[blt2krl]

Originally posted by jode:
Blt2Krl - what do you have? - and what are you asking?Jode I was razing TUCK aka Full hydro, he sold me my one tons to help on his wedding. :D There was a set of one tons in Idaho Falls for $1000. I can check and see if they are still around.

[ April 06, 2004, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: blt2krl ]

[blt2krl]

Look if you want to truss your axle than go right ahead. The housing needs to be strong. The prodominent reason for bent housings is abuse. The bottom line is the increase in strength is structural and not mechanical. While this is important, it doesn't benifet your ujoint size or your axle shaft strength. It basically boils down to size matters.

[jode]

scotty - you misread what I was wrote - I didn't say shaft upgrades were cheap, or could be had for limited money. I won't bother to quote myself on what I actually DID say :D ;P

BTW - I would say your "truss" is more of a "gusset" than a "truss" from the images you posted.

Originally posted by blt2krl:
TUCK aka Full hydro...sold me my one tons to help on his wedding. :eek: you're kiddding me! No the ones he had already installed on his rig! So what does he have now?

[blt2krl]

Originally posted by jode:
scotty - you misread what I was wrote - I didn't say shaft upgrades were cheap, or could be had for limited money. I won't bother to quote myself on what I actually DID say :D ;P

BTW - I would say your "truss" is more of a "gusset" than a "truss" from the images you posted.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blt2krl:
TUCK aka Full hydro...sold me my one tons to help on his wedding. :eek: you're kiddding me! No the ones he had already installed on his rig! So what does he have now?</font>[/QUOTE]He has a 44 up front and a 14 bolt rear as far as I know.

[scotty]

Originally posted by jode:

BTW - I would say your "truss" is more of a "gusset" than a "truss" from the images you posted.
maybe so,but i bet it wont bend,short of driving off a 10 foot cliff http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/images/smilies/thefinger.gif

seriously,i see what you are saying. trussing a front axle is always going to be a compromise between structural rididity and ground clearance. you usually cant truss the whole top,cause of the leaf springs, u bolts,or bumpstops,and if you heavily truss the bottom you eat up valuable ground clearance.

my gussets,truss,or whatever are the compromise i came up with to maximize rigidity while minimizing ground clearance loss smile.gif

[tomd]

Originally posted by blt2krl:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jode:
scotty - you misread what I was wrote - I didn't say shaft upgrades were cheap, or could be had for limited money. I won't bother to quote myself on what I actually DID say :D ;P

BTW - I would say your "truss" is more of a "gusset" than a "truss" from the images you posted.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blt2krl:
TUCK aka Full hydro...sold me my one tons to help on his wedding. :eek: you're kiddding me! No the ones he had already installed on his rig! So what does he have now?</font>[/QUOTE]He has a 44 up front and a 14 bolt rear as far as I know.</font>[/QUOTE]I thought he had a 10 bolt front? Or has that since been replaced?

[blt2krl]

Originally posted by tomd:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blt2krl:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jode:
scotty - you misread what I was wrote - I didn't say shaft upgrades were cheap, or could be had for limited money. I won't bother to quote myself on what I actually DID say :D ;P

BTW - I would say your "truss" is more of a "gusset" than a "truss" from the images you posted.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blt2krl:
TUCK aka Full hydro...sold me my one tons to help on his wedding. :eek: you're kiddding me! No the ones he had already installed on his rig! So what does he have now?</font>[/QUOTE]He has a 44 up front and a 14 bolt rear as far as I know.</font>[/QUOTE]I thought he had a 10 bolt front? Or has that since been replaced?</font>[/QUOTE]No your right it is a 10 bolt....

[full_hydro]

it's a 10 bolt.. was a dana 30 before that smile.gif
i bought the 1-tons in the summer hoping to upgrade, then I got engaged... and Blt2krl got a sweet pair of axles. smile.gif