pop...pop....pop....ping.. KABLAAAAAAMMMMM!!!! Hmmmm, timing problems?

[billyrb]

Ok, went to start my jeep for the first time in the year and a half I have owned it. Finally got everything rebuilt and put back together. Getting ready to start it, and I realize there isn't any power steering fluid. This should have been my first clue that something was awry. I poured PS fluid, and it runs out of a broken hose like a faucet. Go to the parts store, order a new one, won't be in until tomorrow. Figure, what the heck. I'll just take off that belt and start it anyway. Take off the belt. Go to move it into the driveway, and the rebuilt transmission doesn't seem to have ANY gears. Ok, so maybe there is a problem with the tranny. So, I leave it in the garage, and say what the heck, I'll just block off the wheels, and I'll start it anyway, you know, to break in the cam and lifters. Go to start it, and all I get is pop....pop....pop.....in the exhaust pipe. So, I pump the gas, turn it over, and still the same thing. So, I leave it, and go to dinner. When I return, an hour or so later, I turn it over 3 times, and pop....pop....pop.....KABLAAAAAAMMMMMM! My garage fills with black smoke, I am not only dazed and confused, but I am also deaf! That backfire was the loudest I have ever had the unfortunate experience to hear. I think I crapped in my pants, too. Scared the daylights out of me. So, here is where I am....tired, frustrated, and smelling of excrement. So I ask, what are your thoughts about the engine timing....
</font> When I installed the dizzy, the engine was set properly at TDC#1.</font> I installed the dizzy with the rotor pointing towards the #1 cylinder</font> I installed the wires accordingly, using that post as #1, then following wiring order around the cap.
</font>Ok, so what could be wrong? When I first tried starting it, at one point, with starting fluid, it sounded like it started to fire properly. Could I just have the wires one post off all the way around? Could I have the dizzy 180 degrees off? Could I just have bad gas (btw, the gas has been sitting in there for at least a year and a half)? I was thinking about the gas issue......if the gas was bad, then it wouldn't backfire at all, would it? In order to backfire, the gas would have to be still good, right?

HELP!!!

[kyjman]

When you say you pointed the dizzy towards the # 1 cylinder do you mean the rotor was pointing at #1, or you put it where the rotor pointed to# 1 place. Did you mark where the rotor was pointing before dissasembly? I think you need to turn the engine over by hand and line up the timing mark on the damper with the timing mark on the block. Then look and see where the rotor is pointing. If it is poing to where it shows in your manual, then re-wire the dizzy. My Haynes has a good article in it on finding the right place to double check timing. Good luck. Also I'd recommend rolling it outside the garage before you try starting it again. A fire caused by a backfire could be very bad.

[Stolen76]

Check your ignition timing first as suggested. You could also be off a couple of teeth on your cam timing, but there is more involved to checking that.

[joe]

You set the point gap/dwell?

[timmirvin]

OK, typing and thinking at the same time.....

How is your compression? Were the lifters soaked in oil first?? Maybe the backfire is a result of all valves open at the same time.....Just a thought......seems like I have had this happen to me before.....

[Millerluck]

When I started my 77 wag a few weeks ago with old gas. It had a few loud bangs too. Did it back fire through the carb? Or was it exhaust

If the carb, try advancing the ignition timming a tad bit.

Tail pipe? Old gas not lighting up till its in the pipe.

Later

Larry Miller

[billyrb]

ky, I had everything set to tdc #1 when I got it back from the engine shop (built a short block for me). I installed everything else, and never rotated the engine. When I installed the DUI dizzy (I never rotated the rotor from where the factory had it), I dropped it in so that the rotor faced the #1 cylinder, then I tightened it down.

Today, I'm going to try rotating each wire one location and see if that helps. If not, I'm going to pull the #1 plug, and find TDC again. Then, I'll check the timing mark. Then, I'll make sure of where the rotor is pointing. Then, I'll make sure all wires are pointing where they are suppose to be. If all that is done, and it still doesn't start, I'll be replacing a whole lot of gas. Btw, anyone know where I can get rid of the gas legally & ecologically?

Btw, kyjman, I'd love to roll it into the driveway.....but, I have a somewhat steep driveway going down to the road, and in another post I mentioned that my tranny won't engage....permanent neutral. Ah well, one thing to fix at a time!

Thanks for the advice, guys!

[trickc]

Ryan ,not sure what to say about the timing, but check your t-case to be sure its not in neutral, could be the cause of your no gear situation.

[billyrb]

10-4, Curtis....that's gonna be the first thing I check this morning. Btw, how the heck are you? Oh, btw, I think I might be selling Lamont....I'll do a few more things, but I can only really handle one fixer-upper at a time.....call me one night this week.

[illegalFSJ]

I'd look into the 180 degrees off possibility if it was me. Remenber, the dizzy dosen't just have to be one TDC #1, it has to be on TDC#1 on the COMPRESSION stroke and not the EXHAUST stoke, which is the other time the #1 piston is at the top of it's travel.
Just remove the spark plug, disconnect the coil so there's no spark, and have a helper "bump" the engine until you feel air pushing against the finger that you have pushed up against the spark plug hole. Then align the timing marks and you'll have TDC#1 compression.
good luck.

[shadowfax101]

What illegalFSJ said happened to me. And I had similar things are you describe, only after my muffler exploded. That problem is also very easy to do. I just moved all the spark plugs around to get it running. I always planed to come back and reset it, but that was almost a year ago.

[Michael]

Sounds like to me that the dizzy is stabbed wrong. Everytime I have done mine the rotor was pointing at the power steering pump...but that is on a 360.

Regardless where you stab it, by moving the wires you are onto something. Sounds like to me you are not firing on #1.

[Wagillac]

I would guess its 180 degrees off too. At least its easy to check.

[billyrb]

Guys, we have resolution. A while back, I had installed the dizzy and just before installing the wires, I looked into the manual and started second-guessing myself, thinking that maybe what I thought was the #1 post on the dizzy was wrong (based on the manual diagram).....so, I went here for advice, and a few others confirmed that I would have been wrong had I put the wires on where I thought they should go......long story short, had I put the wires on where I thought they should have gone in the first place, everything would have been correct. Turns out that after second guessing myself, I incorrectly installed the plugs 2 posts off all the way around.

I rearranged the wires 2 posts counterclockwise, got in the jeep, turned it over for 1 second, and she fired right up! Now, I just have to fix a few other little things, and I'll break in the motor!

Thanks again for the help! Sometimes I just need to talk about what's wrong before I can clearly realize what I did wrong.

[Joe H.]

waitammint.....so #1 TDC is NOT where it says in the manual??!? On mine, IIRC the rotor was pointing almost straight at the front of the GW and NOT at the PS pump or #1 cyl (as on a SBC)...am I goofy here?

[billyrb]

Joe, you are as goofy as a preacher hopped up on goof balls! Seriously, though.....the diagram in the manual probably worked great for the factory dizzy.....but, with the DUI ignition I have, things seem to be a little different than in the book. Once I moved all wires, it fired up on the first try.....I guess that's a good thing... ;) .

[Sitting Bull]

Glad to hear of the success Ryan. I was worried about ya! Tranny case in neutral...DUH!!! Sorry I didn't think about that one when you called...whew...(sigh of relief). Much better than pulling the tranny anyway. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya!

You know what the real problem is? It's not Beigewag's fault that it really wants to go to the next WOT, but knows it won't make it even if it runs perfect! So why try? :D

Now then, as for the DUI firing order being different than the stock order sounds whack to me. The firing order is determined by the crankshaft when you really think about it. I haven't installed a DUI, but it is on the list, so I would really appreciate it if you would work these problems out before I get to mine :D :D :D !!!

Good luck!

[joe]

SB, the firing order is the same. Ryan just had the wires clocked two holes off. Same order...wrong starting point. ;)

[Santa Claus]

If you have #1 cylinder on TDC on compression stroke you can drop distributor in any orientation you want as long as you install wires correctly. Use where rotor is pointing as #1, then 8-4-3-6-5-7-2 clockwise.