View Full Version : Installing 14 ff /D60 into 78 cherokee w/t ?????
05-09-2003, 11:40 AM
Ok I have searched here and pirate 4x4 and have found a great deal of good info,and decided that a 14 bolt rear and D60 front will be the cheapest and best way for bombproof axles.If I understand correctly both can be drilled to accept 6 lug wheels.Maybe I am the forum dummy :rolleyes: or something ,but all these numbers and measurements confuse me.All I need to know is what axles from what vehicle will closely match my vehicle and what mods to make them work?I have no problems welding on brackets,perches etc.I guess width is my main concern.I am guessing that a wide van type 14bolt will be needed and one side cut down to make it offset like my D44 rear.RiverBeast I know you have all the answers so bring em' on!! :D
05-09-2003, 11:48 AM
You will not be able to offset the Diff on the 14 bolt. You can use on out of a Chevy pickup. Tank clearance will be an issue, may have to go to a rear mounted tank, thats what I am doing
05-09-2003, 11:55 AM
More confusion but I am getting there.What type of tank?What type 14 bolt most closely matches my widetrack?
05-09-2003, 02:37 PM
A single rear wheel 14ff will be close to your wide trac. It is 67" WMS to WMS. And your current is 65". But thats only 1" per side. I can hardly notice the difference with my 44 up front. Dennis
05-09-2003, 02:54 PM
sundowner had a really cleaver idea about offsetting a 14 bolt for tank clearance:use a cab and chassis hub on the passenger side,and a wheel spacer on the driver side. now you can move the housing 2 inches to the passenger side for tank clearance and have the wheels in the right spots :D
if thats too confusing of a notion,my advice would be to modify your gas tank. either swap in a new style plastic tank,or have yours ceut and welded. or swap in some kind of rar mounted ttank.
IMO it is not logical to cut down a 14 bolt to clear something as easily modifyable as a gas tank.the cost of doing this(if you can find someone who could do it with a full floater) kind of defeats the purpose of the 14 bolt-they are cheap and easy to find and find spare parts for.
my $.02 anyway smile.gif
05-09-2003, 06:08 PM
Alright the only thing I need now is where to get a tank that will work and sum up the front D60.
05-09-2003, 06:41 PM
As far as the tank goes, I believe that a late 70's bronco tank will work w\ a little body lift. And you can up your capacity to 33 gal. Useful info from riverbeast's web site.
05-09-2003, 11:17 PM
also look into the 80 and up plastic tank. they fit with a centered m20.only prollem wit them is youl need a beefy skid plate,and youll prolly have to fab it,since factory ones are getting pretty scarce
05-10-2003, 01:09 AM
You could do what I did, move your rear axle back. I should have no problems fitting a 14 bolt now. :D
05-10-2003, 04:45 AM
Alright,any advice on the front?
05-10-2003, 05:51 AM
I used an Aero 29 gallon aux tank as my main tank. It is mounted in the rear and clears the 14 bolt no problem. Here is a pic: http://froadin.com/pascal/m715_wag3.jpg
The Aero Tank is still primed in the pic and not rhino lined yet.
The front is an easy as pie boltin. I had rockstomper.com build my highsteer arm, super HD tie rod and draglink as a one stop shop. All boltin, no issue.
RB has figured out how to do the steering a lot cheaper than I did so you might want to pic his brains.
05-10-2003, 07:50 AM
OK we are almost there.I have located a 14 Bolt from a friend for $100.Now I will need a D60,and I think Dodge are 67" and I will be set!!!
05-10-2003, 09:33 AM
I guess theres no problem with the driveshaft angle going toward the passenger side.
05-10-2003, 09:59 AM
I know the 14 bolts are cheap and strong but
the J-20 D60FF I picked up for my Cherokee
is nicely offset a few inches to the pass side
and just clears the fuel tank. My D60FF is
from a '77 J20 and is 67.25" WMS-WMS. The down
side is I had to pay $299 for the 35 spline Moser
axles and had to bore the spindles to accept the
1.50" shafts. Not a big deal but it did add some
cost. Spring mounts and shock mounts had to
be moved also but it gave me the opportunity
to point the pinion toward the transfer case
and mount the shocks higher for clearance.
05-10-2003, 10:19 AM
Great I appreciate the info Netbear!!
05-10-2003, 10:41 AM
No problem. You are doing pretty much the same
thing I'm doing. I noticed your jeep is a 78
so you need the pass drop front D60. I found
one from a 1978 Chevy K30 which seems like it's
going to work great in my '79. The '78 K30
D60 front axle has the pass drop you need and
the spring pads are for SOA and are already
in the correct place to bolt to the FSJ front
springs. The WMS-WMS for this front axle is
69" so wheels with 5-7" back spacing are
called for if you want to keep the rubber under
the wheel flares. I'm using Hummer beadlocks
which come with 7" BS. Just going from SUA to
SOA will give you 6-7" of lift with stock type
springs. I'm looking for a little less lift so
I will be trying an old set of springs with
a little age-sag and maybe remove the smallest
leaf. Should flex great and I hope to net 5"
of lift by the time I add a welded steel front
bumper and winch. Won't know until I get
everything done and drive it around. I want
to keep my CG as low as practical and be able
to go in and out of the garage without having
to air down the tires. Anyway I thought the
front axle info might help in your search. They
are out there, not cheap unless you get very
lucky. Check out the great D60 front axle tech
info on the pirate4x4.com site. Lots of great
info and specs that will help you in your search.
Some front Dana 60s have better features than
others and it's good to know before you buy.
Prices for a good complete front 60 with king
pins (the better type) 35 spline, etc seem to
run in the $1000-$1600 range from what I have
seen. Some guys luck into better deals but
almost everybody knows what they are and what
they go for.
Oh, by the way, where is Beaumont?
My kids would love a ride on a Tug Boat! ;^)
05-10-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by seadog:
I guess theres no problem with the driveshaft angle going toward the passenger side.im running on offset spicer 18 and a centered 14 bolt,and have not experienced any prollems with it. i dont really drive it on the road,but if i did,i dont think the driveshaft angle would be an issue.
05-11-2003, 04:18 AM
Beaumont is about an 1 1/2 hours north of Houston.Yeah all the kids love the Tugs!I think I have what I need now.This should give me something to do for a while.Thanks again fellas!
are you sure that you want to run 6 lug wheels? It's going to be $$$ to get 6 lugs on a 14 bolt and dana 60... I think you should just get 8 lug wheels.. g'luck
05-11-2003, 10:55 PM
15" rims won't fit a front 60 without grinding on the calipers, new offset wheels,(and they have to bee steel wheels) it CAN be done to rebuild the 60 and 14b to 6 lug, but it's a great deal of work that's not worth it, imo.
I was going to offset my 14b as scotty outlined above, buy my gas tank ain't in the greatest shape, so I'll replace it when I put the axle in the back.
I'm using a 1985 Dodge Dana 60 front that *should* be a bolt in, according to Billavista's article or pirate.com. I got it from Johntone's used auto parts in Patterson NJ for $650, and he has more if anyone is looking.
just remember to look out for the hidden costs of big axles. the brakes on front 60's cost a fortune. and new gears for a 14b aren't cheap, either.
05-12-2003, 03:48 PM
Only reason I wanted 6-lug is because of the huge selection of wheels.They will either be 16 0r 16.5.Axles around here are scarce and mucho $$$$$$$$$$ !! Maybe it will be better 8-Lug.
05-13-2003, 12:33 AM
i was originally going to try and keep my 14 bolt 6 lug,since i too have a lrg inventory of 6 lug,10" wide wheels ;)
the thing that turned me off of wanting to do it is the fact that the single wheel 14 bolt hub is not flat on the back side- the lugs pass thru little towers,for lack of a better way to describe it. this would make redrilling the hub kinda funy as the 6 lugs would be some of them passing thru part of the tower,some missing them completely(and leaving a large gap between the hub and rotor :eek: )
in addition to machining the front of the hub and axlesahft to fit thru the wheel,and machining the rear of the hub to fit thru a 6 lug rotor(or machining the ID of the rotor to fit the hub) it is neccessary IMO,to nmachine the rear surface of the hub flat,and use a spacer between the hub and rotor to keep the same spacing for the rotor and wheel mounting surface.
the cab and chassis hub is likely flat on the back,since the WMS is closer together on a C&C axle tha a SRW axle(67.5" vs 64.5"). this my be ok if the narrower width doesnt bother you,but youll have to modify brake kits that are designed for single wheel axles,and youll also have more of a prollem fitting 15" wheels,since therotor will end up closer to the wheel mounting surface.
also consider that now you cant walk into any junkyard,find a hub and toss it on,in a pinch. i try to stay with commonly avalable,unmodified parts whenever possible,in case i break somethin far from home,it wont neccessarily ruin my weekend.
i decided "f*** it its not worth the hassle",and ordered 2 15" 8 lug steelies from four wheel parts wholesalers for $39.99 apiece.on a single wheel axle with calipers and rotors for a front 3/4 ton application,my 15" wheels fit with almost no grinding. i prolly spent less than 5 min per side smoothing them out alittle,and that was it.
eventually ill make the front 8 lug when i install my front 70. in the mean time,i take pack 2 spares in the 'burb,and if were going to be wheelin somewhere that takes camp further away,i made a spare tire carrier that mounts the tire on an old spindle. i carry an 8 lug spare mounted on an 8 lug hub and backing plate,so if i damage a front tire badly enuff we cant patch or plug it,i can swap on the 8 lug stuff and spart.
as far as the front goes,there is nothing stopping you from making a new set of brackets(possibly modifying some 3/4 ton factory ones) and running the 3/4 ton front rotor and caliper to make the 15" wheel fit the 60 more easily.
there are selections of 16 and 16.5" tires,but i like to stay with 15" since thats prolly what 75% of the used stuff that pops up is
some other stuff to consider,anyway. smile.gif you are prolly better off just getting some 15" 8 lug wheels,if you want to stick with the 15 diameter
05-13-2003, 11:17 PM
Scotty, do you have some crazy off back space? Like 2.5" or something? I have 4" bs and 16" rims, and my calipers have less than 1/4" of room on my 14ff. I would think no way a 15" rim fits without that type of BS. Just wondering. Im running 13" wide TSL's and was fine with 4" bs. I still have maybe 2" clearance between my tire and leafs. So in the future i might go with a little wider tire. Dennis
05-14-2003, 11:10 PM
nope,i have standard offset(4 or 4.5") 10 inch wide wheels.they just barely rubbed the calipers. it was little enuff i prolly could have let them "self clearance" ;) but i spent a few minutes on each side withthe grinder to smooth em out.
they are plain jane white rock crawler steelies from 4 wheel parts wholesalers
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