MIG or Stick? That is the question.

[Sergio & Ulrike]

MIG or Stick?

It seems in overall cost that a stick welder is cheaper ($500) and more powerful but more time consuming due to the extra clean up required on the welds. A stick welder is also harder to do thin metal with.

The MIG seems more costly for a good welder ($800) that will do at least 5/16" easly and a good duty cycle and is more costly to operate (gas and wire.) BUT it is more versitle in that I can do from steel to sheet metal to stainless steel to aluminum.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. When I buy a welder, I'm only going to do this one time, if you know what I mean.

[Kenall]

well for compatable amp ratings im going stick. for 240$ i can get the lincoln 225A welder.

for about 650$ i can get a 135A lincoln MIG welder, and that dont include the gas...

for the very FEW times i weld, the versatility of the MIG is far overshadowed by its price. :(

[fulmetal]

I have to say that for any structural welding I woukd use the stick. Any thin skin you are going to weld would require the use of a mig.

So, with that I have both of the set ups, You can buy the the 225$ lincoln and a used mig for about 200$ and have the best of both worlds :D

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

THE STICK WELDER AC OR AC DC 220 VOLT......THE MIG WITH CO2 110 VOLT....CHEAPER TO RUN THE MIG EVEN WITH THE GAS...HOBBY WORK!! HOW MUCH ARE YOU GOING TO USE IT ????YOU V PLATE, SAY SOME HEAVY STEEL, YOU CAN RUN SOME PASSES WITH A LOWER AMP WELDER AND BE OK...SO YOU GET A 110 VOLT MIG WITH GAS, SAY A BETTER ONE ;) ....GARY

[nograin]

Depends....

MIG
Bodywork, sheet metal
Allows you to get a deep thorough weld without overheating and warping the sheet metal.
Unless you are really good, your welds will still look like bird turds and requires some grinding.
You can keep moving for better productivity because you don't ave to stop when the stick runs down. (assuming you have a decent duty cycle)

Stick
Frame, heavier metal work
Welds generate more heat, and depending on the welder generally will let you do the heavier stuff better.
Big advantage is that you can change your sticks for what you are doing. For example you can weld with stainless one minute (less heat but a ***** to grind off) and use a high carbon steel the next, and one with something else after that. Also you can get different diameter rods for lighter and heavier jobs.

A 220 unit will generally be better than a 110 unit because it draws less current. Whether it is appropriate for your home use, you will have to judge.

[Stangerize]

MIG MIG MIG, no doubt about it. The MIG is so versatile it can do it all. If you know what you're doing you can outperform a stick welder with a MIG even on heavy plate. The gas itself is cheap. Like $29 to refill the Argon. The biggest expense there is the tank. To lease or buy? That depends on the cost from your supplier and how long you plan on having the welder.

I made a winch mount for my Ramsey RE 10000 with a MIG using C4x5.4 channel and 3/8" plate. I know it'll hold up. Penetration is the key. Although the only thing it has winched so far is my Jeep onto my trailer (less motor and tranny) and a newer Camaro that was wrecked.

When you take your certification test for welding, you weld 2 pieces together (in my test it was 3/8" plate butt welded), they cut it into 2" strips. Then they X-ray some and bend the others back and forth until they break. If it breaks on the weld, you fail. If the metal itself breaks next to the weld, you pass. This means the weld was stronger than the metal itself. Try the bend test on some scrap metal and test yourself. This'll make you feel better about your welding or let you know you aren't doing it right. Use a vise and a hammer. And just do about 2" of weld.

Stay away from the "Wire Feed" welders that are gasless though. It makes a crappy weld and you still have to clean it up like a stick weld because you have to use flux-cored wire to protect the puddle from impurities in the air.

Anybody want to buy my old stick welder real cheap?
It was all I could afford when I bought it.

[ibnfe]

I personally like the mig. Fairly cheap to run, easy to use, easy to learn for that matter. A 110 amp should be plenty for what ever you will need on your rig. Of course you may be welding other things, but a 110 amp will have enough grunt to do most jobs, unless you're gonna go thicker than 1/4". And as far as the stick switching goes, only takes me about 2 minutes to pull one roll of wire and replace it with another, so not a huge set back as far as that goes. :cool:

[Stangerize]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ibnfe:
And as far as the stick switching goes, only takes me about 2 minutes to pull one roll of wire and replace it with another, so not a huge set back as far as that goes. :cool:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Especially considering how long of a continuous weld (pass) you can make with a roll of wire. LMAO :D

[64Trvlr]

I'd go with the MIG over the stick welder. And I'd use a mix of 75/25 CO2/Argon for the gas, it works just as well for most welding and is more cost effective. One of the drawbacks for using stick welders is that in addition to the weld clean up for each pass, you HAVE to keep the rod clean and dry or you'll have problems with the weld quality and purity. If you can do it get a good 220V welder from Miller, Lincoln, Hobart then you'll get a good one that will have parts and service available. Have you tried going to a welding store and asking for a good deal on the whole package you want? Your local store is a place that will usually let you demo different welders to see what you really want. They may also have some used machines or sales or special packages too.
:cool:

[desert_freak]

I agree with everyone about MIG welders. One thing to consider is buying a good MIG and keep your eye open for an old stick for the really heavy stuff. I picked up a 220A arc welder for $50 including the hood and about 10lbs. of stick. I've paid for that welder 10 times over in the welding I've done on trailers in the past. I plan to buy a good MIG but will probably still break out the stick when I make the bumper for my J10.

Bottom line old stick welders are cheap!

P.J.

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

EVERYBODY IS ON THE MONEY GIVE OR TAKE A PENNY OR TWO..FOR BODY WORK I GOT A MILLER 11O VOLT WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT 750.00 GREEN RIVER IS RIGHT ON THE MIX BUT CO2 WILL WORK JUST FIND..... ONE THING... GET ONE WITH A SPOT TIMER...THEN YOU CAN SPOT WELD.. I'VE DONE EVERY TYPE OF BODY WORK THAT CAN BE DONE..SKINS.... QUARTERS.... PATCHES....YOU NAME IT...110 VOLT IS ALL YOU'LL NEED..... I DON'T LIKE TO DISAGREE WITH MY FRIEND.. 64... BUT 110 WILL DO YOU..... ON ALL YOU'RE SHEET METAL NEEDS.... GARY ;) ;)

[fulmetal]

Come on guys, I have been a welder for 15 or so years now and I will tell you that welding things that require structural integrity needs to be done witht the stick.
Most of the shops that I have worked in that rave about the 220 migs don't know there ars from a whole in the ground. Almost any one can run the mig and in short order appear to be good at it. But to run the stick or tig and make it look pretty and stronger than heck, well most shops will not pay for the machine or keep a good stick man on the payroll. For example I work part time at a local shop that customizes axles, ie amc 20's strengthens them at a premium for the smaller jeeps. The man gets 1700$ per axle and I cant convince him that a tig machine would increase the profits by 1)People like good looking welds, most dont know if they are sound or not but hey if you are going to pay the big bucks they need to look custom and 2) the heat is easier to manage with the tig while still having the intergrity in the weld.Man am I ranting or what :(

They both have there place, like I said I have both. For example, when I was fabricating the shackle flip in the rear I tacked everything in place using the mig, removed it and burnt it in with the old reliable 7018

The problem with the mig is there is very little penetration because of the juice flow. Athough the mig will appear to make a better weld with little effort. I will say that when you are welding on the new body pannels you really need the mig because of the lack of heat and its ability to weld at lower amperages.

It depends on what your goals are in the welding field. If I had to pics one buy a good stick you can always grind the Bird crap off, but you sure ban turn up the heat and burn that baby in there.Whats the saying ( Give me more heat and a longer rod)


:D :D Good luck

[64Trvlr]

Gary
I agree for body work the 110 is the ticket, but who is gonna stop there? I did the floor, made trans/xfer case mounts, bumpers, tire carriers, a fab table, grinder stands, stand for the vise all kinds of stuff. I still say buy as big a one as you can afford. It's cheaper than trading up.
Fulmetal
I had a heavy equipment repair/welding shop for almost 20 yrs. I used to say stick was the only way to go for "real" welds. Not so I can do just as good a job with my MIG as with my stick. 70 series wire does the same thing as 7018 rod. I like TIG welding and agree it's a great way to weld looks great and strong, but it takes a lot of practice and most casual welders don't have the time to get real good with it. Sorry to hear that you need a longer rod..... LMAO
:cool:

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

64 ...WE COULD CALL THIS THE WELDING WAR TOPIC!!!...EVERYWHERE I WORKED THEY HAD 220 V MIGS.... I'M TALKING HOME USE FOR THE 110 EASY ON THE POWER BILL....ANY STICK I USE AN OLD AC WELDER.... HOW IS EVERYTHING IN GREEN RIVER ??????....GARY ;) ;)

[64Trvlr]

Gary
Things are just fine in the big city of Green River. Doing a little welding on the Jeep. I always thought 220v was easier on the electric bill. Am I the only one who ever heard of a rod oven or at least air tight rod boxes? How are things on the right coast?
:cool:

[wagdriver]

Well I have to agree with what has to be the concensus. For some one who does not weld every day the MIG is the way to go, and is without a doubt the easiest to learn with. The main reason is you can really see what is going on. I also like the AG25 mixture because if produces less spater to be cleaned up when finished. I used to think the stick was the only way to do structural weldments however things have changed in the welding business. The only real reason to use stick for sturctural work for the most part is you cannot haul a 2-400lb machine up a column weld bar joust in place. In a job shop the MIG set up for the ease of use is much quicker. When you are doing out of position welding which is anything that is not horizontal, then stick has the advantage, because most of us who learned to weld out of position learned with a stick.
I'll have to agree that there is nothing better looking than a properly executed TIG weld but to use it on mild steel is a waste of time and money. For aluminum and stainless it is the best choice, however there are not many times you are going to weld these two metals.
As to voltage 220V, it is not that hard to come by, every house is wired for 220V single phase any way, so that is just a mater of installing an outlet where you need it. If you went the 110V way you are probably going to have to install a 20 amp circuit for it any way.
Really there is comprimise at every turn no mater what you decide to do. But for most hobby guys a small MIG is the way to go. Most will never use a machine to its potential ever. Most of the machines are rated 20-30% duty cycle, and believe me you will be ready to quit long before the machine ever knows it has been used.
Shop around, look at new machines so you know what a machine is supposed to look like. Check the classifieds and the web there are bargains to be had. You can tell if a machine has been abused just by its general appearance, if if looks like a dog leave it and look elswhere.
I am sure there are those on this board who have much more experience than I and all have there own preferances. Its only natural.
GEM THIS IS NOT A WAR THIS PRACTICAL CONVERSATION. THAT IS WHAT MAKES THIS SO MUCH FUN! :D :D :D ;)

[Sergio & Ulrike]

For everyone that has so far expressed their opionions, I want to say thanks. When I make the plung, I'm sure the answers here will help me make my decision.

I'm leaning toward a LE SP-175 Plus thats 208/230V 130AMPS 20V 30% Duty cycle mig

BUT.....

LE also has a real nice AC/DC 225/125 208/230V AC 225AMPS 20% Duty cycle, DC 125AMPS 20% Duty cycle Stick welder......hmmmmmmmm.

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

64''I'M NOT GOING INTO MY WELDING JOBS...BEFORE I FELL AND HIT MY HEAD AND STARTED DOING BODY WORK...THE DIFFRENT WELDING SHOPS I WORKED AT USED A REFRIGERATOR TO KEEP RODS HOT!!! I KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. ......NICE TO KNOW THAT EVERYTHING IS FINE IN GREEN RIVER....... THE WELDING WAR IS OVER ;) ;) ;) GARY

[Stangerize]

1) If you can't get your MIG welds to hold as well as your stick welds, take a class on MIG welding. Ask to learn about "root openings" and penetration specifically.

2) 7018 rods are pretty welds that have 70,000# of tensile strength in the weld bead. But that does absolutely no good if you can't get any penetration and get them to quit sticking when you strike the arc. Then they get slag over the end and you can't strike an arc until you beat the slag off. You have to keep them in a heater to keep them dry or they become short hangers for parts while painting. That's all they'll be good for.

3) 6010s and 6011s are the best rod for digging and penetrating. That's where the holding power is at anyway.

I've been schooled in the most widely used processes (MIG, TIG, SMAW, Oxyacetylene and Flux Cored) and tested my welds with all of them. If they're done correctly they will all be stronger than the steel you are welding together. So that only leaves versatility and ease of use. That leaves MIG and TIG in a dead heat. With TIG winning on smaller and beautiful welds and MIG winning on cost with a fairly attractive weld bead.

Hey, use what you like and what works for you and your budget and I will use what I like and what works for me and my budget.

[Kenall]

u guys are all talking about astetics and ez of use. but any technique becomes natural after some time, but cost does not.

the question is: will i weld enuff to justify spending 2-3 times more for a mig welding outfit than an stick outfit?

i have a elec dryer outlet that is 250V @ 50A max, that i can plug in a stick welder too. but the LE SP175mig that sergio has his eye on was 650$ the LE 225Astick is 250$

for all the mig units uall have, what did u pay for them?
new or used?
how much do u use them?
give me an idea of model and brand that is prefered for the weekend welder?

[fulmetal]

You can get rapped up in the costs of new stuff. I gave 125 for my small 110v astro arc. It works fine for the use I put it through. If I were to recomend a new one it would be the hobart handler for around 450. That comes w/ the Alum. sleve. Just about and good stick machine, Try to stay with the DC version if you can find one. I have a good hobart that I happened to stumble on, old but great.

About the only thing I use the 60 series rod is to hanf the paint parts myself :D :D

Hey just about any of the machines will work great for you all you need is some stick time

[nograin]

War ? what war ?
This seems to be a pretty darn thorough discussion.
Oh me Gosh! I've been censored! I wrote b&tch, as in rhymes with witch, and the system xxxxx ed it over. :rolleyes:
Sorry, didn't know that was a bad word.

I think its pretty clear the choice depends on what you are going to do with it. TIG - ah yes, my personal favorite. But like has been said, takes more time to learn and not reaaly the best for body work.

I totally agree, a good weld ought to be stronger than the metal adjacent to it. MIG heats the adjacent metal the least. Going to 220V depends on your shop set up, etc.

FWIW. My Automotive Body book uses Oxy-Acetylene for all their sheet metal work. The book isn't even that old. Certainly would not be my choice or recommendation for someone starting into it, but the point is that you can make it work. Heck, through WWII, there was only Arc, and Oxy-Acetylene.

Body shops pretty much all have MIG setups today, and for good reason.
My old man had a welding shop in Newark NJ from 1950 until the late 80s. He did NO automotive body work, so his choice of welders was very different. He was after small production and specialty work.

The one MIG was set-up with aluminum wire, because there was one regular customer that needed porosity holes filled in aluminum castings. The TIGs were the mainstay of the shop, because that was the best for most of the work that came in, specialty work and small production batches of aluminum boxes, etc. You bet there was also an arc welder, Oxy-acetylene, and "atomic-hydrogen". The last was something that came out in the 50s. It consisted of two non-consumable electodes on one handle that created the arc between them and the protective gas was hydrogen. It was very hot, and by the time I was in the shop, it was pretty much used only for industrial repairs of items made with tool steels.

[64Trvlr]

I don't know how fast you expect to make the welder pay off, but I think over the next 10-20 years having one and being able to do more and more with it as you get more experience that won't matter very much. The other good thing about buying a good, name brand welder is that years from now you'll still be able to get parts and service on it or trade it in and get something for it. As for whats prefered for the weekend welder I have no idea. I think as you get better and more confident as a welder the projects will become more challenging. So I guess you might want to figure in the cost savings of building stuff yourself instead of buying it.
:cool:

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: 64Trvlr ]

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

AUTO BODY...PRE MIG....#00-#0-#1 TIPS.... MINNIE TORCH.... A SET OF Q TANKS....OX AND ACETYLENE.... A TUBE OF FLUX RODS....A BUCKET OF WATER, A RAG AND YOUR SET...ARE YOU MEN OR MICE....GIVE IT A TRY....... HEHEHEHE ;) ;) GARY.....

[Mikel2]

I just put my money ($430) into a Hobart Handler 135. I've heard some really good things about it, and the price is right. Thank you all.
Mikel

[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: Mikel2 ]