Testing Quadratrac for cone wear

[79_Limited]

I am thinking about buying another Quadratrac as a backup to the one I currently have. The one I currently have goes clunk, clunk when I turn sharp corners. Sounds like cone wear?

I might have an opportunity to buy another Quadratrac from a local.

I read a while back that you can test the cones by applying a torque wrench to the splines with the driveshaft removed. I think if it hold up to 80 ft lbs it is good.

Can this test be done with the transfer case removed?

Thanks

Greg

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Your clunk clunk is normal and can be cured with a fluid change if it has not been done in a while and by doing the following to cure the Slip stick condition (http://www.ifsja.org/tech/tcase/slipstik.shtml) you have. Test can be done with T-Case out. You just need a way to secure one of the outputs so it will not turn

[skid2964]

Originally posted by Crazy_Jeepman:
Your clunk clunk is normal and can be cured with a fluid change if it has not been done in a while and by doing the following to cure the Slip stick condition (http://www.ifsja.org/tech/tcase/slipstik.shtml) you have. Test can be done with T-Case out. You just need a way to secure one of the outputs so it will not turnHow do you get a torque wrench on it? use the nut? will that not simply tighten the nut and give you a false reading?

[Crazy_Jeepman]

The torque on that nut is greater than the breakover specs on the clutch cones. ;)

[fulsizjeep]

Can this test be done with the transfer case removed?
Yes... Takes 2 people tho. Least that's how we did it after the overhaul last summer. One to hold 1 output shaft still and QT down and the other on the other output shaft with torque wrench. If it slips before you hit 80 lbs, suspect cone washer damage. If you get to 170 lbs and it doesn't slip, suspect it has been otherwise damaged by wrong fluid type or other abuse and is probably locked up.

The clunk could even be slack chain. With these older units and no new cone washer kits available, I think it is a little normal to hear some noise when turning corners because the hub will be slipping some. The TSM describes this as Stick-Slip Condition:

"Sudden release of the clutch under this condition results in a pulsating, grunt-like or rasping noise. This is low-frequency stick-slip noise that, if it occurs, is evident to the driver at low speeds, such as when slowly turning a corner or maneuvering to park."

"The stick-slip noise will not occur when the vehicle is driven in a straight-ahead position. If noise similar to stick-slip, but much louder, occurs in the straight ahead position, the chain should be checked for excessive looseness."

More QT Info (http://frontier.net/~mystkblu/quadratrac)

[fulsizjeep]

dang, lotsa replies... cudda saved me some time typing if I had realized there was a stick-slip reference here... ;)

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Originally posted by Gulf Coast Sharker:
dang, lotsa replies... cudda saved me some time typing if I had realized there was a stick-slip reference here... ;) ROTFLMAO!!!! Yea I cheat!!! :D

[79_Limited]

Originally posted by Crazy_Jeepman:
Your clunk clunk is normal and can be cured with a fluid change if it has not been done in a while and by doing the following to cure the Slip stick condition (http://www.ifsja.org/tech/tcase/slipstik.shtml) you have. Test can be done with T-Case out. You just need a way to secure one of the outputs so it will not turnYeah that sounds like my symptons. Only problem is I had it rebuilt recently with the proper QT fluid put in. I have done the figure 8 patterns a few times.

My chain is also new. My tires are properly inflated.

Any ideas?

By the way it is not a real loud clunk. Just more of a rubbing type sound.

[ March 14, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: yumyum ]

[g503]

i would check your front drive joint couple of posts had the same noise and they grenaded the joint and took out a chunk of transmission

[joe]

Yup, check the front driveshaft joint.

[79_Limited]

Pete,

I have my driveshafts out.

What do I do now to test the cones?

Greg

[Kenall]

hold the front yoke still, apply torque wrench to rear yoke nut. turn CW, at what torque setting dos it rotate?

[River Beast]

This could be a case of mistaken identity....

Does it clunk once or several times? Reason I ask... it cook be spring pop... when springs get old and tired...when you turn... they will have wear grooves where the leafs lay together. When you have this, and you turn.... the springs twist or scissor out of the grooves... like in a corner... they will 'POP'.... just a thought here to look into...

[79_Limited]

Originally posted by River Beast:
This could be a case of mistaken identity....

Does it clunk once or several times? Reason I ask... it cook be spring pop... when springs get old and tired...when you turn... they will have wear grooves where the leafs lay together. When you have this, and you turn.... the springs twist or scissor out of the grooves... like in a corner... they will 'POP'.... just a thought here to look into...Todd,

Good idea. I will check into that. It is very faint clunk sound that seems to happen with each tire rotation.

The reason I suspect the QT first is when I had it rebuilt gear oil came out which I know is not good.

Is it possible to totally disengage the QT by shifting my low range into neutral? I could coast down a hill, make a sharp turn and see if the clnk persists. Just an idea.

I also suspect the front driveshaft. I am getting a low end vibration from there. I removed them yesterday and am sending them to a shop to be rebuilt.

Greg

[River Beast]

A rhythmic clunk around corners will not be the springs.... but it could be a axle shaft joint gone bad as well...

Try isolate the problem... remove the front shaft and lock it in E-Drive... no damage can be caused by this... take it for a drive... if you still here the noise... you have just ruled out the front driveshaft and bypassed the brakecones with the E-drive...

Next would be axle shaft joints... mine were solid rusted when I got my waggie... they didnt make a noise in the straight.. but hit a corner and wow... clunk clunk clunk...

Just trying to help you pinpoint the problem area the easiest way possible...

[79_Limited]

Todd,

Thanks for the advice. Since I already have the shafts removed I will try the E-Drive method when I put back in the rear shaft.

I have yet to engage my E-Drive. When I engage it should I hear the vacuum switch engage by making a sound?

I ask because I tried to engage it before and could not tell if it was engaged or not. I know my dash light did not come on.

Sooo many problems still to solve but at least my rig is running smooth now except for a few quirks.

[River Beast]

It kinda hard to know for sure if the E-Drive is locked on a QT... check to see if you have a 1 wire but connector on the top of the QT just above the vac diaphram.. this is the indicator light for the dash...

you can manually engage the QT with a mityvac.... then you can hear when it engages....

there are two nipples on the vac diaphram.. one is engage and one disengage...

with the rear wheels up...tranny in N... apply vacuum to the nipple for engage... cant remember which is which... slowly rotate the rear wheel until you hear the engagement... then you will know you are in... use the other nipple in the same manner to disengage...

[79_Limited]

Originally posted by Gulf Coast Sharker:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Can this test be done with the transfer case removed?
Yes... Takes 2 people tho. Least that's how we did it after the overhaul last summer. One to hold 1 output shaft still and QT down and the other on the other output shaft with torque wrench. If it slips before you hit 80 lbs, suspect cone washer damage. If you get to 170 lbs and it doesn't slip, suspect it has been otherwise damaged by wrong fluid type or other abuse and is probably locked up.

The clunk could even be slack chain. With these older units and no new cone washer kits available, I think it is a little normal to hear some noise when turning corners because the hub will be slipping some. The TSM describes this as Stick-Slip Condition:

"Sudden release of the clutch under this condition results in a pulsating, grunt-like or rasping noise. This is low-frequency stick-slip noise that, if it occurs, is evident to the driver at low speeds, such as when slowly turning a corner or maneuvering to park."

"The stick-slip noise will not occur when the vehicle is driven in a straight-ahead position. If noise similar to stick-slip, but much louder, occurs in the straight ahead position, the chain should be checked for excessive looseness."

More QT Info (http://frontier.net/~mystkblu/quadratrac)</font>[/QUOTE]It slipped before it hit 80 ft lbs. What's the repair remedy?

Am I doomed?

[Crazy_Jeepman]

where did it slip at? replacement or Part Time it is the only remedy there is no rebuilding it. Though I hear someone has started to make the clutches, but no one knows who. Another option is just drive it. Strange it clunks though, usually wore out clutches do not clunk.

[79_Limited]

Originally posted by Crazy_Jeepman:
where did it slip at? replacement or Part Time it is the only remedy there is no rebuilding it. Though I hear someone has started to make the clutches, but no one knows who. Another option is just drive it. Strange it clunks though, usually wore out clutches do not clunk.Seems like slipped close to 80lbs...not much before.

After River Beasts posts I am not so so it it the QT that is clunking.

It is driving great so I am gonna do like you say and just keep driving it.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I have seen the breakover as low as 45 lBS and the rig still drive fine. Close to 80 is good ;)

[79_Limited]

Originally posted by Crazy_Jeepman:
I have seen the breakover as low as 45 lBS and the rig still drive fine. Close to 80 is good ;) Good deal.

As always thanks for the help Pete.

By the way I see you have 8,000 + posts. Are you the official "Jeep God?"

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Originally posted by yumyum:
By the way I see you have 8,000 + posts. Are you the official "Jeep God?"No :rolleyes: ........... Just means I have no LIFE!!! :eek:

[kng]

I have a spare QT on the bench that I'm about to swap out due to excessive chain slack in the current QT. However, I tested the cones the other day in the spare and they slipped between 35 and 40 foot pounds. I have not changed the fluild yet. Could this be due to bad QT fluid?

Thanks,
-Kyle

[FSJ Guy]

Even if the cones slip at 10 pounds, it will still work. You now have an OPEN differential, however. Fine on the street, useless off-road, but that's what E-drive is for, anyway!

[grand_wag_85]

I have a good differential in proper working order if anybody is interested.

Since yours is acting as an open diff it can leave you stranded with only one wheel spinning, with a properly working diff it will send power to each axle and you will have atleast 2 spinning. Like mentioned above, E-Drive does wonders:cool: