Last time...i swear!

[orangecherokee]

alright this will be my last question about transmissions. i know you guys are tired of it but i think we're all learning a little. this is a big decision for me b/c it's what i'll be running for a LOOOOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG time. i can't afford to keep swapping stuff. anyway, my new plan is the sm420. sweet 1st gear and all the beef included. here's my question, what is involved in adapting this hoss to my 360? what bellhousing will i need the t15/t176? they have a kit at Novak for $100 but i'm wheeling on the cheap or at least trying to. also, will it fit my clutch plate? i dropped some serious flow on this last one and i want to keep it. i talked to a guy at tellico and he said for the 435 there is a 1/16" difference but i heard the chevy trannies can use the same. thanks guys for all the help. i promise, last one. :D

[Stuka]

The SM420 is getting hard to find. And parts arent as availble when compaired to its newer brother the SM465.

Just curious, why did you ditch the T18a?

[FSJeeper]

why did you ditch the T18a?[/QB]There is only one logical explaination for swapping out a FSJ T-18, that is because it is hooked up to a Dana 20! A 2 ton transmission hooked up to a quarter ton tcase, what was Jeep thinking?

[blt2krl]

LOL, getting popcorn and a drink.....

[orangecherokee]

FSJeeper is right, the d20 is a major downfall in that set up. i wanted to go with a 420 b/c it has a lower first gear than the t18a with the same beef and also i can hook up a 300 or a 205 (more than likely) to it easily. the crawl ratio with the 205 i think is around 66:1. i know this is not great or anything but i think it'll do the job for tellico. most people know how i drive anyway, if i don't make it, i break it. i just love the heavy foot. another good thing is if i can't find a good 420 the 465 adapts the same!

[Will Morris]

Also, the SM420 is extremely short and would allow the adaptation for a Dana 300 and then the use of a divorced NP205 for relatively cheap doubler with a PTO for a winch. Plus, Nick found one for a good price, so I'm not sure what he's waiting for :D . Stuka, I imagine that with your 33s if you get heavy with your right foot, you'll blow up the Dana 20 before either of you Dana 44s.

Will

[Stuka]

Originally posted by Will Morris:
Stuka, I imagine that with your 33s if you get heavy with your right foot, you'll blow up the Dana 20 before either of you Dana 44s.

WillYes yes. I have already thought of this. I really need to find a spare D20 to have for when mine decided to go.

So what FSJeeper is saying, is that there is *NO* other t-case that will mate to a T18a? (besides the ubber rare NP208, which is the wrong side drop for me anyways)

Also, I thought the D300 was only a tiy bit stronger then the D20? It even has an aluminum tail housing.

[Will Morris]

Stuka, to the best of my knowledge, the only thing that will work is a Dana 300 from an '80 Scout. As far as the Dana 300 doubler is concerned, you can get a 32 spline output shaft for it that is in the Atlas II ball park, but it's pricy. There's also a Dana 20 32 spline output shaft, but then I think you'd just start stripping gears like Scotty did a few weeks ago. The Dana 300/NP205 doubler would be alright because you'd have the NP205 in low range most of the time and not the Dana 300. Since the torque would be doubled after the 1.96:1 low range in the NP205 and the Dana 300 is upstream, it would effectively feel half of the torque that the driveshafts have to deal with. Then, if you really needed to crawl something, you could shift the Dana 300 into low as well to have a 1.96x2.62=5.1352 low range. It may not necessarily be the best option, but it can be built a piece at a time, which for Nick and me as college kids, is a big deal. Get an SM420, divorced NP205, wheel for a while, adapt a Dana 300, wheel for a while, get the upgraded output saft, wheel with a sweet doubler and no fear of breakage. I think with enough creativity, money, and machining work, you could adapt anything to the T18A, but I'm not sure it'd be worth it when you can get an SM420 or SM465 for $100.

Will

[orangecherokee]

stuka, i happen to have 2 d20s in my shop as we speak. 50 bucks takes one home! will's right though, why try and adapt a tranny that in all honesty is more trouble than it's worth. i love my t18a, but there are far more t18s from fords and that's what the adapters are made for. don't worry will, as soon as scotty chimes in with the adapter knowledge it'll be on it's way to the house :D .

[scotty]

OC,didja get my PM? the sm420 was primarily a 2wd tranny,using a divorced case in 4wd situations,with the exception of the very rare version that was married to a rockwell t122.

so factor in the cost of an adapter at the other end for whatever transfer case youd want to run.

i think stuka is right- the d300 is only marginally stronger than the d20,so it doenst make lots of sense to me to buy an adpater for that. i know you dont like the low range or the weight, but the 205 is gonna be your best factory option if you dont want to carry spare tailsahft housings,and cant afford an atlas.

i think youll be time and $$ ahead to use the 465/205 or 435/205. that or run your t18 for awhile and carry a spare d20 tailsahft housing with you smile.gif thats what im gonna do until my doubler is ready

if you want to peg the bling-o-meter,the trickest,most cost effective setup IMO would be a ford 435/205,a rev cut front ford60,and 14 bolt rear.

run that setup without any custom adapers and no fear of breakage till the cows come home.

plus,the round pattern on the adapter for the ford 435/205 leaves the door wide open for a klune v or 203 range box to slide in between later on ;)

my $.02 anyway smile.gif

[ July 27, 2003, 05:34 AM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[scotty]

Originally posted by Will Morris:
Stuka, I imagine that with your 33s if you get heavy with your right foot, you'll blow up the Dana 20 before either of you Dana 44s.

Willi dont think so,i broke my rear 44 3 times that i can think of,with my 38s and my original spicer 18. i didnt start breaking spicer 18s till i swapped in the 14 bolt smile.gif

since hes got a detroit in the rear,that eleimnates the weakest link(spider gears) but he still may bend the housing,twist the tubes,and its a toss up wich will go 1st between the d44 pinion and the d20 tailsahft,as they are about the same size,if i remember correctly smile.gif

[ July 27, 2003, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Rockwagon]

Just thow a wrench in all of this didn't ford use the T-18? What t-cases did they runn behind it???? All right I am done now!!!!!LOL

[Will Morris]

Chad, I'd imagine the Ford T18 would've either been 2x4 or had an NP205 behind them, but Scotty "the drivetrain dictionary" would know for sure. Maybe you should use that as your title Scotty. smile.gif

Scotty, Nick blew up his Dana 20 before his rear locked, front welded 44s with 35s had any trouble. That's interesting that you mangled 3 dana 44s before adding the 14 bolt and then started popping transfer cases. Anyway, Nick found an SM420 for cheap, so we were thinking of SM420 and divorced NP205 because that way you could use a divorced NP205 from a Dodge or a Ford depending on what front axle you found. I also like your doubler idea, but where are you finding these NP435/NP205s for cheap?

Nick, please settle on a tranny, because all this talk is making me want a grindbox!!

Will

[FSJeeper]

Ford T-18's cam with NP203's, NP205's, and NP208's and the variants. Prior to that they used divorced Dana or NP205 tcases.

[Rockwagon]

I was just currios cause the the consenses I got around here was the only thing you could put behind the t-18 was a D-20.

[scotty]

Originally posted by Will Morris:


Scotty, Nick blew up his Dana 20 before his rear locked, front welded 44s with 35s had any trouble. That's interesting that you mangled 3 dana 44s before adding the 14 bolt and then started popping transfer cases.

Nick, please settle on a tranny, because all this talk is making me want a grindbox!!

Willwill,i thot OC had a d60 in the back of his rig when the d20 shaft broke? i thot i remembered his perches breaking off about that same time ;)

anyway,it just goes to prove how you can never tell whats gonna happen,or what will break first. to further show this,FSJeeper broke a d20 output shaft before breaking the spider gears in a dana trash lock :eek:

as a general rule,i dont think the 44 is stronger than the 20.

c'mon will,join us... get a grindbox... you know you wanna... youll have much more bling than you would with a boring old auto :D

[scotty]

Originally posted by Will Morris:
I also like your doubler idea, but where are you finding these NP435/NP205s for cheap?
actually,i paid $300 for my dodge 435 and the ride here from new jersey.

the ford 435/205s can be found cheap if you scrounge. a friend of mine picked one up for $50 from a kid whod bought the f150 for the 9" rear. typical going rate in the local "trading post" is typically between $200 and $250 for a tranny/trasnfer case.

i was supposed to get a free 2wd f250 with a 435,but the guy never called me to say when i could come after it :mad:

i see non running,rusty 4wd f250s fairly regualy for $300 or so. sometimes you can pick up a parts truck cheap and sell off some of the leftover stuff to add back to the budget ;)

[orangecherokee]

Will, you need to man up and throw down! a grindbox is where it's at and you know it.

Scotty, you never said what exactly i would need as far as bellhousings go. i tried the MSN deal and couldn't get it to go through. maybe there's a trick i'm not aware of. anyway, if it doesn't work soon, i'll try and give you a call.

[rockjeep44]

"1972-79 AMC I6 and V8 engines can also be used with this transmission but must be equipped with a bellhousing, release arm, release bearing, and clutch disc from a 1980-86 six-cylinder CJ"

Thats you champ which means you need to start looking for an 80-86 CJ with a manual.

more info... http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/420_to_amc.htm

[Cecil14]

Sounds like the bellhousing from a CJ with a T-176...which seems to be about the same length (~6.5") as the ones that came behind the I6 in '80s FSJs. Kinda like the one I've got now. ;)

So what bolt pattern does the Ford T-18a have on the back? Is it the NP round 6 bolt or is it an older NP205 pattern? If it's round you could get that, put your stock input into the ford case and use whatever t-case you wanted. NO adapters. hehe

Anthony

[FSJeeper]

His NP435 is the round 6 bolt NP pattern.

[orangecherokee]

Originally posted by rockjeep44:
"1972-79 AMC I6 and V8 engines can also be used with this transmission but must be equipped with a bellhousing, release arm, release bearing, and clutch disc from a 1980-86 six-cylinder CJ"

Thats you champ which means you need to start looking for an 80-86 CJ with a manual.

more info... http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/420_to_amc.htmyeah i saw that too but what's the difference between those components and what i have now besides the bellhousing?

[Will Morris]

Originally posted by orangecherokee:
Will, you need to man up and throw down! a grindbox is where it's at and you know it.
Originally posted by scotty:c'mon will,join us... get a grindbox... you know you wanna... youll have much more bling than you would with a boring old auto :D Nick and Scotty you guys are killing me. I'm going to get it going with an auto first just because it's been off the road and trails long enough. I'm thinking that while I'm in school all winter with no wrenching to do, I'll pick up a parts truck and that white '76 will be sporting a 60 rear and a 350/Sm465/NP205 with an SOA. Just don't tell my step dad :D

Will

[Stuka]

Originally posted by scotty:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Will Morris:
Stuka, I imagine that with your 33s if you get heavy with your right foot, you'll blow up the Dana 20 before either of you Dana 44s.

Willi dont think so,i broke my rear 44 3 times that i can think of,with my 38s and my original spicer 18. i didnt start breaking spicer 18s till i swapped in the 14 bolt smile.gif

since hes got a detroit in the rear,that eleimnates the weakest link(spider gears) but he still may bend the housing,twist the tubes,and its a toss up wich will go 1st between the d44 pinion and the d20 tailsahft,as they are about the same size,if i remember correctly smile.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Actually I have been more worried about my axle shafts then my pinion. I have 3.54's so the pinion is still decent sized. As opposed to if I was running 4.56's, then the pinion would be dinky. Like 9 teeth or something.

I have a lead on a set of 3/4 ton axles (D44HD/D60) from a ford. Just gota talk to the guy about them. Although it would be a while before I would be able to put them on. And I need to make sure its a full float D60, as I havent seen it yet. It may be a D60-2.

[scotty]

Originally posted by orangecherokee:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rockjeep44:
"1972-79 AMC I6 and V8 engines can also be used with this transmission but must be equipped with a bellhousing, release arm, release bearing, and clutch disc from a 1980-86 six-cylinder CJ"

Thats you champ which means you need to start looking for an 80-86 CJ with a manual.

more info... http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/420_to_amc.htmyeah i saw that too but what's the difference between those components and what i have now besides the bellhousing?</font>[/QUOTE]indeed,an 80-86 6 cyl cj should have a t176,and the part number for the t176 and t150 bell is the same in the 4wd hardware catalog. the bell on your t18 is prolly different than this bell,i know that the one on my t18 looks different,and tho bolts thread n from inside the bell into the adapter,instead of thu some tabs into the bell. next time i have it off ill check th bolt pattern.

im pretty sure that youre gonna hafta use a t150 bell,no matter what way you go. as far as the clutch components go,the cj bellcrank is different,but im not sure what the differences are with the fork,t/o bearing,and disc are between the cj and fsj.

if you got your heart set on the 420,get novaks kit and a t150/t176 bell and well figure out the rest from there smile.gif