Strongly Considering SOA

[Subconscious]

I'm considering turning the Grand into a wheeling/camping only vehicle, and getting something else for a daily driver. I'm aware, mostly, of what goes into making a SOA work, and I think I'd be better off letting a shop, or atleast someone who knows what they're doing, do the axle and steering work - perches, knuckles - the tricky stuff. I can handle the detail work - brake lines, etc.

So, anyone know a shop in the SC/NC area that does this type of work? Or any members want to make a buck helpin a brother out?

[diver]

If you can weld you can do it yourself. Use Tads perches and Br's flip kit and you are set. Just have to do the detail work then. It is truly not to hard.

[Subconscious]

I can't weld (very well), but I have a friend who is a welder by trade. He can weld anything.

I don't know enough details to attempt this myself...yet.

1. Do you need to place the perches at an angle to change the pinion angle? If so, just how do you figure that angle out?

2. Do you need to cut the knuckles off the axle, rotate, and re-weld them to correct the steering caster? If so, then how do you figure that angle out?

3. I'm totally lost in regards to changing the steering to the "high steer" set up. All I know is that one rod ends up inside the leaf springs...

I'm also thinking that if I'm going to have to do all this work to the axles, I should upgrade to stronger axles - so I don't have to do the work twice. I'd like to run 35s or maybe larger. So,

4. What's the best axles to replace the stock 44s? Dana 60? Are there any axles out there already with the perches on top? Source vehicles for donors?

[robselina]

okay, lets go through your questions:

1 - the perches should be at the same angle as they were SUA. Take a level and rotate the axle on jack stands (off the vehicle) until you have the SUA perches level underneath. Then without moving the housing, set the new perches on top and get them level and tack weld them in place. After it's tackwelded run some decent beads...

2- you do not need to do this. The caster angle will be fine with the above approach 90% of the time. I want a little more, so I've got 2.5" degree shims from RE to add to my spring pack to give me a little more caster.

3- okay, if you keep your existing front axle, you'll want to get flat top knuckles from a ford or chevy Dana 44. Then check out somone like partsmike.com for high steer arms. If you want to go crossover steering, you replace your passenger side knuckle with a chevy knuckle. you do noting to the drivers side. You use your stock tie rod where it sits normally and you run a new drag link from the pitman to the new high steer arm. IF you want full hi steer, you swap the knuckle on the drivers side too, and you move your tie rod above the springs with the drag link. check out my "hi steer woes" thread for a lot of pics on my new hi steer hardware. I used heim joints since they were cheaper and easier to work on, but standard tie rod ends would be better for you probably. A lot of people get the high steer arms set up for 7/8" GM taper and they run 1 ton GM TREs. again, check out partsmike.com

4- okay, if you want 35s you COULD keep your stock axles but the rear will be a little taxed and more than anything else, your stock gearing is all wrong (2.73s probably) This being the case you'll need to regear at the least. I chose to get a set of J20 axles to gain a little width (to compensate for the lift) and I also got 3.73s and a D60 out back. The slightly beefier rear end and better gearing make this a worthwhile swap IMHO. With 35s and 3.73s I've got 10% more torque at the wheel than stock, so it's still fine for daily driving. Other options for swaps are late seventies F150s and F250s for D44, D60 combos and these should come with flat top knucles too up front, so they make high steer a little easer. The HD 250s and 350s will have a D60 front if you want more beef, but for 35s I think the D44 is still a good front axle.

If you go through the trouble of doing the high steer and playing a little with the alignment though, you could probably be happy with your rig as a daily driver still. I'm going to go for about 3 degrees of caster and max toe in. this should make it pretty stable on the street. Right now I'm good at low and high speed, but it's a little squirmy between 40-60 MPH right now and the steering doesn't return to center at low speed, that's why I'm messing with my caster angle.

okay, think i covered most of it :D

[Subconscious]

Man, you rock! This is a great site!

In regards to your answer to 4 - a J20 Dana 60 rear is wider than my stock Dana 44. Are the perches on the J20 Dana 60 in the right place on the axle to line up with my springs, or do the perches need to be moved inward?

I was more or less assuming that I'd have to swap out ring & pinion gears. My Grand does have factory 3.31s, which would be fine for 31s, IMHO. 33s would get 4.11 , 35s 4.27 maybe?

[River Beast]

you are on the right track....

the D60 perches must be moved if it came from a J truck reareand... the frames are wider...

For the amount of money you will spend on the re-gear of the D44.. look into the beefier axles from the J20's.... most had the lower gearing and will give you strength and save yo money in the long run

Rob hit all the key points....

I have alot of info on my site for SOA.. ( link in sig)

Don;t forget the rear lift... check on my kits ;)

[ April 03, 2004, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: River Beast ]

[Subconscious]

I was planning on using your shack-flip for the rear, RB. But the installation of it looks easy enough, I couldn't think of any questions about it! ;)

[robselina]

yea, like RB said, gotta move the perches but it's not hard. New perches can be had for $13 from Summit to $50 for a nice set of MORE anti wrap perches.

As for gearing, really depends what you want to do. I find 3.73s and 35s to work rather well actually, and still be street drivable. I'd like to have 4.10s so I could run 37s down the line, but this is fine for my needs. Short story is that 3.73s and 4.10s are readily available in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, so you don't have to deal with regearing if you go that route.

[garoo_one]

go for it and see what kind of adventures await you honestly this is great especially when you do it yourself

[shredby4]

Subconscious
Tarheel 4 Wheel Drive Center does all that. They are getting ready to SOA my buddy's YJ with a set of J-10 axles, swap in a 350, NV4500, and a D-20 t-case. They do have plenty of vehicles on hand in the bay so you can see what they do. I'm not sure what all work Galloway's (may have spelled that wrong)in SC does...But they sell all kinds of parts and are one of the only shops I know of that can balance HUGE tires. If nothing else, they are good guys to talk to.

If I decide to SOA mine, I'm letting them do it. I say "if" only because I am not sure I want that much lift. Considering a Rusty's or BJ's 4" kit too.

[Jake_S]

Sub, if you want to go SOA you can always swap Chevy axles underneath. This will give you the SOA w/o the welding, plus they're wider so you get the stability that Rob was talking about.
If you have any questions or what not just ask. I live in Rock Hill, and I'm getting ready to swap my axles for Chevy units in a couple of months.
Jake

[diver]

Jake the Chevy axle has the dif on the wrong side for his application. A ford axle would work however.

[Subconscious]

Ok, I think with the help and advice from you all, I can do this job myself.

My first step is gonna be finding some better axles. Ideally, I'd like front and rear from the same vehicle, so they have the same track (width between the wheels). I don't want to use the stock Dana 44s - I have a fear that I would eventually break one (or both), and if I'm gonna do all this work, I really only want to do it once.

So, the front axle I'm looking for will be a Dana 60 (or equivalent in strength), with flat top knuckles on both sides (do they come that way?), and driver's side pumpkin. I expect I'll have to move the perches in or out some, even if they are on top, so the donor can be from a SUA vehicle.

The rear axle needs to be a Dana 60 (or equivalent). I expect to have to move the perches inboard. Do shims need to be used here to help with pinion angle?

I'm willing to swap out gears, if I have to, or live with what's in them for a while.

So, from what I've read here, it looks like I'm looking for a late '70s Ford F-250 (did they have a "HD" back then?) or F-350. What front axle did J-20s come with?

Thanks for all the help guys - you're lightin' a fire here!

[Tad]

Originally posted by Subconscious:
...So, from what I've read here, it looks like I'm looking for a late '70s Ford F-250 (did they have a "HD" back then?) or F-350. What front axle did J-20s come with?...For your 80+ rig it will be the Ford front axle unless you want to do a tcase change over.

F250, should be the HD44 and the F350 should be the D60 (I'm not a Ford person but I'm pretty sure that is correct) those will be SOA already (not sure about the perch spacing).

The 80+ J20 front axle will bolt right in but that will be SUA.

diver mentioned my perches, they are the same 7" antiwrap length as the MORE perches, if you don't need that anitwrap length, they are designed to be trimmed down to 5" like a normal perch (just cut 1" off each end), this can be done after they are installed.

You can also offset the axle 1" forward or rearward if you are so inclined, PM or email me if you need more info.

[robselina]

check out Pirate 4x4 for more info on D60 fronts. Under the tech section they have a D60 Bible that indicates all the vehicles that came with the covetted axle. The fords should all be SOA already and be 32" centers, within 1/2" where yours are now so no new perches required probably. If you keep your current D44 or go with J20 axles, tads perches seem worthwhile BTW and really remove the last bit of hard work for the fab. The J20 has a D44HD, basically a D44 with 8 lugs and thicker axle tubes. For 35s, that's plenty, for 38s, get the D60.

[Subconscious]

Wow, I did a little research online, looking for axles. Are the Dana 60s made out of gold? They might be cheaper if they were! I'm gonna have to find a junker with the axles I'm looking for, and "take it off your hands for ya"

Sounds like J20 axles are fine also - Will I need flat top knuckles for the front?

I plan on using Tad's perches - I just need the axles, so I can get the right thing...

[rockjeep44]

If you use a late model ford frontend you'll have to outboard your spring mounts because the drivers side perch is cast into the housing and can't be moved. Not impossible to do but a lot more work.