Winches-- Can you get them TOO big?

[dnixon]

Well after my very small trip w/ Stuka and J&B I already saw the potential to use a winch a couple times. So this got me to thinking, "self you need a winch"

So i started checking them out and at first I mostly only saw the Warn 9000i's and ones around that size then I saw the Warn 15K and 12K ones. So I wondered, "Do I NEED that much winch?"

They are heavier, bigger and in most cases a bit slower then the smaller, lest bulky ones.

So what do you all think? I don't want to buy one just to later on in life decide i need a bigger one or its just not fast enough. So any thoughts or ideas on this would be great. Thanks....

[Wagillac]

Get a Warn 8274 it is fast and should have plenty of power. If you need more pulling power just block it. You should be able to find one used.

[David Allen Racing]

I have a MileMarker 10500 lb. hydraulic winch and I love it. Two speeds and free spool. I've used it to pull guys out when their electric winchs have stalled out. It weighs and costs about the same as an electric, but man does it pull way better. Check this out http://www.milemarker.com/winch-10.html

Dave

[BIGYELLOW78J10]

There was a comparison I read a while back comparing a Warn 10,000# winch vs a 8724 winch with block, and the 8724 could pull more, faster when double strung with a block.

So, I say go for the 8724, but I like old cool things, like jeeps and your mom.

Later,

Daniel

[Navajo]

GlennTx just got a winch and it was dirt cheap too. PM him and ask him which one it was

[Georgia Mike]

'Nother vote for the 8274! Great winches!! I've got the predicessor model to the 8274,it's called a "Belvue". It only has forward,and everything on it is manual (cable operated-still not all hooked up yet :( ),but I wouldn't trade it for ANY other winch on the market,except an 8274 smile.gif

[Mikel]

I have a Braden LU4 winch that I'm going to put in my M715 (stock winch). A PTO winch and an Olds 455... A 300 HP winch :D

[ August 27, 2003, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: Mikel ]

[robselina]

I just bum a tug from some other sucker who bought one :D :D :D

[scotty]

nooo,you can never have "too much winch" smile.gif

trust me,i have been stuck enuff to stall an 8000 lb winch with a snatchblock. this is one of those things that you may not need 12,000 ols 95% of the time,but the time you do need it you will be super-duper glad youve got that power in reserve

face it-these rigs are heavy. if you want towheel a samuri you can get away with a 5000 ln winch,but with our rigs more is defiantely better

ill agree the 8274 is a great winch and if you find one for a good price by all means get it,but dont let the fact that its a great winch stop you from considering other,bigger winches as well.

i have a very large pto winch in my bed,and a small harbor freight 8000lb electric up front. for whaty i paid for it,the electric winch works great and has pulled me out a couple times when i needed to go forward. nothing beats a PTO winch for extracting others-i can pull one of my non-running buddies up any hill the full length of the cable without it breaking a sweat,or having to stop and cool down.electric winches are only really good for short tugs,not long pulls.

[Manhattan]

I like my 8274 - I hope I never max it. If I do, I'll block it.

I think you can go too big - just like you can with tires. Sure, 44 Boggers are less likely to let you get stuck. But like a 15,000 lb. winch, you'll pay for it in other areas.

Check the weights of the winches. Some of those bigger winches are really heavy - that will take a toll on your springs... sag! As far as handling and braking are concerned, having 150 lbs. that high and that far forward of the front axle is terrible.

And if you've got the biggest winch of the group, guess who gets stuck as the "winch vehicle".

[6foot4 again]

I was going to get a moveable ( front to back mount ) winch, so it'd have to be kinda' light, so look into those, maybe.

[Manhattan]

Originally posted by jeepsandbears:
I was going to get a moveable ( front to back mount ) winch, so it'd have to be kinda' light, so look into those, maybe.The only problem I've seen with those is that when they're mounted - the stick out really far on the bumper and at the lowest point - instead of on top of the bumper. This makes for some hellacious approach/departure angles.

Of course, you can leave it off until you need it... but when you need it, the receiver hitch may be under water/mud...

Obviously there's no perfect solution... or is there... I've got a friend with a Warn HS9500 on the front of his CJ and a Ramsey REP8000 in the bed... he can turn his CJ into a Hammock!

[Kaiserjeeps]

I used to have a lay down 8K warn winch. I moved it to the wag and picked up a 8274 for the CJ. Can't beat it. 150 feet of upsized cable, and with a good ground will pull like a scalded dawg. A guy at Warn told me some of the 8274's pulled 10K in tests. I even built a home made multi mount for the back of my CJ. Doubles as a license plate holder, a skid plate for my spare so I don't yard up my tailgate, and lastly a winch mount. All in one compact package. Granted an 8274 would be a bit of work to mount to a FSJ, but you can't go wrong. Go 8274!!!!

[scotty]

id like to hear a situation where having extra winch power in reserve can hurt its performance. i dont think the comparison to 44" tires is a real good one. in order to have 44s,many more modsd need to be made than to fit 38s. 12000 lb winch however will usually bolt to the same area as an 8000 lb. you cant go wrong.

on the wieght issue,very few,if any,8000 lbs winchs are going to weigh less than 65 lbs,and i definately would not sacrifice any performance or durability to save a couple of pounds.

multi-mount setups can detract from approach/departure angles depending ho how they are designed,expecially when a person wants to keep a stock front bumper and factory appearance.

my front bumper has a reciever mounted on top,and my winch does not affect my approach angle at all. i can move it to my rear reciever,or to my xj,or to my burb. i also have a reciever on front of my trailer,so i can put it there and pull non-running parts rigs up onto it with ease smile.gif

[Manhattan]

An XD 9000 weighs 78 pounds
An M15000 weighs 136 pounds

Unless he's running those 44s I mentioned, I don't think the extra pulling power will really be needed... and worth the added weight.

[Elliott]

How about a big Tulsa... say 100,000lbs for the bed of your truck?
http://216.149.164.146/twwormGw.htm

;) That oughta get you outta the muck :D

[scotty]

i guess it will depend on the intended useage.if a person wheels occasionally and mildly,then maybe the extera weight is not carrying around,specially if its a daily driver.

however,for someone that uses his rig hard offroad,the extra weight is worth the extra pulling power.

ive been stuck enuff to stall an 8000 lb winch with a snatchblock. its not so hard when youre diffs are resting on solid ground in the ruts covered by thick,sticky mud,which creates a suction to your undercarriage.

again,these rigs are not light,even with 31s. get the biggest winch you can afford,IMO. unless the winch is mostly for cosmetics ;) you will eventually get into a situation where youll use everything its got. if you havent been stuck,you werent havin fun,right tongue.gif

[rockjeep44]

HS9500...best winch on the market in my opinion also the best compromise between an 8274 (8000lb) and the M12 or 15000. Plus it's easier to mount and relatively affordable especially now that they have the two bling bling HS9500 models out now. The trusty HS9500i is really looking sharp in price. I got mine a year back or more for $750 brand new shipped to my door. Can't beat that.
-Andrew

[bigblack'74]

my old alexander is like 10k or 12k (underterminable) the only drawback to it, is isnt very fast and DOESNOT freespool..it is very old but never stalls under even very hot and heavy loads..it only cost approx. 400.00 to renovate

[Will Morris]

I'm inclined to agree with Scotty. It's really nice to have that extra power when you need it. I've gotten the Chief stuck bad enough when dead stock that it needed three vehicles on dry ground in low range to pull it out. I'm pretty sure that if it takes a FSJ, a Scrambler, and an XJ all tugging in low range, then an 8k lb winch just isn't going to cut it. These things are big heavy beasts. The difference between that 9k and 15k lb winch is 58 lbs. When you consider that a trail ready FSJ with gas, gear, and driver probably weighs over 5k, the extra 58 lbs is not even a 2% increase in weight. That's like one of us expecting a serious performance gain by dropping 3/4 of a pound in weight. 58 lbs can also change due to the amount of gas burned by a rig going down the trail. So if it were me, I'd gladly increase my rig's weight 2% to increase my pulling power by 60%. That's just where I'm coming from anyway. When I can get a winch for the Chief it'll be atleast a 12k lb job. I'm not sure if it'll be hydraulic or electric though.

Will

[Michael]

Scotty. You mentioned the Harbor Freight Winch. How is it as far as quality??? Have you had any real issues with it? Or does it seem to do the job for an 8k lb winch?

[scotty]

i believe it is the same quality as the ramsey 8000E or milemarkers 8000#.it looks exactly like both of them,and the specs are exactly the same as the 8000E.it seems to work just fine,and ive used it to rescue myself a couple of times.im very happy with it for the price

[derf]

Several things I've learned about winching over the years:

1. You can never have too much power. Ever. I used a Warn XD9000 on my XJ to winch a full size pickup on 38" boggers out of a mud bog. He was buried past his frame. I had to attach my rear tow hitch to a tree and use a snatch block on the line but I got him out. Had I had less winching power, I might not have gotten him out. Before that, people told me I'd never need that much winching power for an XJ.

2. The only drawbacks to bigger winches are weight and cost. Weight, as has been pointed out before, is really irrelevant to our 5K+ pound rigs. Cost is the only thing left to complain about and that's an individual thing. Speed only really matters if you're naturally impatient or in a competition. For me, I can tolerate a slower winch knowing that it won't stall out under heavier loads like the faster one.

3. When it comes to brands, you get what you pay for. Sure the cheap electric winches are good for the occasional tug and you'll get your money's worth before they crap out. However, more expensive brands hold up longer. I like the peace of mind knowing my Warn will be there running long after the cheap ones would have crapped out. After all, you usually only need a winch when you're out in the middle of nowhere and you're in a real bad stuck. Do you want the cheap one to crap out then?

4. Electric, hydraulic and PTO winches all have their strengths and weaknesses. I've seen a guy brag about his hydraulic winch being able to operate under water. That is, until he hydrolocked his engine starting it to run his winch when he was in the middle of a creek. Electric winches will overheat if you tax them too much. PTO and hydraulic winches won't work when you're stalled out and can't get started (probably why you need to winch in the first place). Blow a power steering hose and you've lost your hydraulic winch. Dead batteries or water will kill any electric winch. If you find yourself frying an electric winch 'cause you used it hard all day, maybe you should look into driving easier trails or making your rig more capable. Bottom line, recognize the limitations of your particular winch and try not to push them.

[textbookonewk]

Okay, what is a PTO winch.

[Elliott]

Power Take Off, runs from a mechancial gear attached to the transfer case or transmission that is either directly connected to the winch via a shaft or to a hydraulic pump and hoses.

[derf]

Originally posted by textbookonewk:
Okay, what is a PTO winch.It's a winch that uses a PTO (Power Take Off) point from your tranny or t-case.

A lot of bigger trucks and even older small trucks have this capability. Most farm implements (i.e. tractors) still have this.

Basically, you hook up a driveshaft from the winch to a port on the side of the tranny. There's a shifter or two (or three) that controls the winch and ususally some kind of hand throttle.

To run the winch, you rev up the engine a little and engage the driveshaft. That causes the winch to spool in (or out) the cable.

This kind of winch was used for years until someone figured out how to put an electric (or hydraulic) motor in place of the input for the driveshaft.

[textbookonewk]

And now I know. Thanks guys