Lets talk grind box tech

[rockjeep44]

Ok guys, it's time to start making decisions. The drivetrain for the buggy is certainly going to be the AMC 360, Klune V, Atlas 3.8, and a grindbox. FSJeeper has a nice NP435 in good condition and he wants some parts off my jeep so thats looking really good right now but I still want to hash this out. Ok here goes...T18/NP435/T19/anything else??? All of these trannies granted they are from a Ford will bolt easily to the 360 with the t150/176 bell with ease so I'm not worried about that. What I'm looking for is opinions on which would be the best for my setup. I know that with any of them my final crawl is gonna be retardedly low but I don't care about that, what I like is all the usable options in between the klune gives me. Thats being said, I'd like to go for the shortest combo possible so I can keep good driveshaft angles without much trouble, bulletproofness (more splines the better) and ease of install. Now, the T19 could be pretty cool because it has a syncro first gear. Granted it's not as low but thats not a big deal considering I'll be running an atlas and klune. Now, I'm gonna shutup so lets get some good discussion. http://www.novak-adapt.com has some good info. One final thing, right now I'm focusing on Ford only 4x4 versions of these trannies because they bolt in easy and have the most splines on the input (31 i think) and since I'm ordering my Atlas and Klune from scratch I want to order the beefiest Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley they have. Should I be considering the Jeep T18 or some other model as well? SPANKS!
-Andrew

[ July 17, 2003, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: rockjeep44 ]

[rockjeep44]

Some stats to get started with
NP435: 6.68, 3.34, 1.66 or 1.74, 1
T18: 6.32, 3.09, 1.69, 1
T19: 6.32, 3.09, 1.69, 1 (rare)
5.1, 3.0, 1.8, 1 (rare)
4.0, 2.4, 1.4, 1 (most common)
All ratios listed on the T19 have a syncro first. Is that worth looking for one?

What adapters are required to bolt this shiznit together if any because I've heard that some can be quite long. http://www.klunev.com has some decent info too. TIA
-Andrew

[AMX factor]

Get crazy and use a 5 speed Lenco. Then you'll only need the clutch pedal for first gear and just pull the gear handles back for the rest.

[rockjeep44]

uhhhh....no smile.gif

[Will Morris]

Well, if you want my 2 cents, screw getting a T19. With all the gearing you're going to have getting a Synchro 1st gear just isn't worth the trouble. I mean you're never going to be moving at any high rate of speed and then think, holy Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley, gotta slam it into granny! 3.34:1 for 2nd gear on the NP435 is pretty close to the 1st of the gear of the AX15 on the Wrangler that your boy Jimmy is spotting in 1st place just for comparison. Go with the NP435, and you'll be happy. As far as adapter length, doesn't the Klune act as an adapter or am I mistaken? The Jeep T18 input shaft is way too long if you're concerned about drivetrain length. It'd take a huge adapter on the NP435 to make up for the enormous Jeep input shaft length. Ok, so maybe I gave you a nickel's worth of my opinions. Keep the change.

Will

[Rockwagon]

Less gearing more power!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!

[Will Morris]

Originally posted by Rockwagon:
Less gearing more power!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!Said the man with 4.10 gears and 42s!! Chad your right foot's so heavy you must limp. How'd that engine tear down go or have you gotten around to it?

Will

[Stuka]

The syncroo 1st isnt a big deal. I am willing to bet you wont usse 1st gear that often anyways, not with the rest of the gearing setups you have. Even with just the D20 that I have 1st gear is to low for a lot of obsticles. Although granted I dont do extreme rock crawling either ;)

For strength, the T18a and NP435 are both quite strong. A guy here runs a 4x4 puller truck with a 800hp big block with a T18a, and he hasent had any problems. I think the 435 is a bit stronger then the T18a though.

In your case it may be easiest to just use the 435, since you already have a heads up on one. As I dont see how it will matter to much going one way or the other. Besides mounting the T18a would be easier if it was from an FSJ, because you would have to deal with the 2 seperate clutch setups.

I runa centerforce clutch in my cherokee, it took a while for it to break in, but its great now (although I thinkk this is partially because off the PO that installed it, got there hands on the pressure plate, which will make a new clutch chatter for a short time until it breaks in). If I drop the clutch it doesnt slip, period. But still lets me slip it when need be. Just dont go with a stage 3 or anything. The one in my chero is the lower moddel, 30% extra grip or what ever.

[orangecherokee]

yeah i would have to go with Will's suggestion. the drivetrain length will be insane with all that. you could actually get a t18 from a ford with the short input and that may solve some length issues. seriously though, i would go with the t18a. i love mine and you saw the abuse andrew, you know you did. plus from your story you told me, you learned on one. it all comes full circle and plus i may sell mine for a special price. ;)

[rockjeep44]

Yours is from a jeep tho isn't it? I'm pretty sure the 435 is gonna be the ticket. Screw the T19, thats too much trouble. Syncros are for fags anyways right?

[HeepofaJeep]

Personally, I would go with the T19 and the 4.0, 2.4, 1.4, 1 (most common) ratios. It seems to me that you aren't even going to need a granny gear, but the closer ratios may help you keep your engine in its powerband better. This depends on what engine you have, also.

[Stuka]

heep: he is using a 360 in a rock buggy...i doubt it will be street legal ;)

[scotty]

id go with the 435. an atlas will bolt to it if you can handle the length of the factory adapter. youll need an aftermarket tailsahft and adapter if you want the shortest possible drivetrain.the factory 435/205 adapter is round 7" long :eek:

youll prolly need to decide that for sure before buting the atlas,as that will affect which one you get.for the factory tailsahft youll need 31 spline,but prolly all the aftermarket adapter/tailsahfts will change it to 23.

if youre going to use aftermarket adapters it wont really matter if you starty with a 2wd tranny. id prolly still try and use a 435 over a 2wd ford t18 for the slightly lower 1st.not to mention a slightly lower 2nd. it doesnt sound like much,but .3 is prolly enuff youll notice it. final drive with 4.10 gears its a jump from 25.9 to 28.4 in high range/1st gear smile.gif i could tell a big difference in going fro a 2.46 low to a 2.03 low range in my transfer case :(

[rockjeep44]

I just bought a 31 spline NP435 from FSJeeper today. We did some trading for some parts he wanted off my Jeep. I think we both got a good deal. Anotherwords, I'M HAPPY! I can't wait to get it in and start shifting the gears and pretending it's in my buggy. Can you say..."stand it up at 6 grand"
-Andrew

[scotty]

sweet! :cool:

[rockjeep44]

Scotty, speaking of adapters, FSJeeper said that the factory adapter is on there so I'll have that but since I'm using a Klune in between the 435 and Atlas I'm really not sure how it's all gonna fit together. Klunes site is kinda vague but I think it said that you can ditch the factory adaptor and get a much shorter one. We'll see what happens.
-Andrew

[rockjeep44]

Hey Scotty, whats should I pay for a T150/176 bellhousing and do you know of any places offhand that has one?
-Andrew

[tuck]

are you sure you need the Klune?
do you think you'll really use that 400:1? ... it's cool, and has the bling factor... but have you looked at what combinations you'll actually have... I think there will be some duplicate ratios among your 16 choices... just food for thought

[scotty]

rockjeep,someone here on the board here awhile back offered me a t176 bell(same part# as t150 bell) for $50. you shold find one pretty easy for $25 to $50. pt up posts in the "wanted" sections here,jeeps unlimited and pirate4x4. i picked up a whole t150 with the bell and d20 still attached for $50 no too long ago at a swap meet.

tuck,its not about needing the klune. its about all the fun youll have with it later crawling up completely vertacle brick walls :D i would take me 3 days to get from 1 side of haspin acres to the other witha klune and an atlas in low :eek: so i defiantely wouldnt need it,but it would be fun to stop and shift into double low on those ultra-gnarly obstacles

[Rockwagon]

Originally posted by Will Morris:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rockwagon:
Less gearing more power!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!Said the man with 4.10 gears and 42s!! Chad your right foot's so heavy you must limp. How'd that engine tear down go or have you gotten around to it?

Will</font>[/QUOTE]I pulled the heads the other day but I believe the engine tore it self down.
6 BUSTED PISTONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO FIGURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I believe the block is salvageble but I won't have the cash for a rebuild for a little while. Wife has been out of work all summer.

[FSJeeper]

Originally posted by rockjeep44:
Scotty, speaking of adapters, FSJeeper said that the factory adapter is on there so I'll have that but since I'm using a Klune in between the 435 and Atlas I'm really not sure how it's all gonna fit together. Klunes site is kinda vague but I think it said that you can ditch the factory adaptor and get a much shorter one. We'll see what happens.
-AndrewRockjeep44, it has the 6 bolt NP adapter so Klune would just put a 31 spine input in the front and whatever you want in the rear so the Atlass will bolt up. Hopefully you will go 32 splines in the rear.