swapping in later model frontend, snags?

[bigjeepguy]

I plan to put at least 33 inch tires on my pickup, and I don't like the feel of the 4 wheel drums with 31's, I know in 1974 and later models the springs are longer and wider,and mounted under the frame instead of outboard like mine, is the frame similar enough to bolt on the later brackets and toss the axle under it, but I want to keep it spring over, and thought about just relocating the spring perches to match the width on my current frontend. Is that an easier less expensive way to go?

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Jonathan landon
1973 J-4000 3602v ,TH-400
Dana20,Dana 44's

[KENALL]

u wood use a GM front diff. preferablly a pre 77 model with discs cuz after 77 GM went from the d44 to the 10bolt. since the GM is already spring over, problem solved.

the frames width shood not be different. i took a 77 d44 from a wag and installed it on my 66 wag.

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1966 Super Wagoneer
'The Predecessor' http://home.earthlink.net/~kenns9/index.html

[Drew M]

Why ignore the obvious? Replace your rears from a later J truck. They'll have the correct width as your truck and if you want more stability,you could go wider using rears off a J truck w/ flaired fenderwells. Just use a pre-1980 front so the diff is on the pass. side still.

By welding new spring perches on top of the axles from a later J truck (not complicated) you can retain your spring over axles. However, if the GM versions already
have the springs on top, like Dodge's, and you're comfortable with their strength and C-clips, this would probably be the easier way to go - as described below.
-Drew M.

[This message has been edited by Drew M (edited August 07, 2000).]

[KENALL]

DREW...he wants to keep it sprung over...later jtrucks are not sprung over...GM trucks r sprung over...GET IT?

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1966 Super Wagoneer
'The Predecessor' http://home.earthlink.net/~kenns9/index.html

[scotty]

the gm axles are a couple inches wider per side. not that thats a bad thing. ive got a 10 bolt out back that ive been using to get an idea what it will take. when i actually install it,ill probably try and find a 44 to use.gmc used the 44 on up to 79 0r 80,by the way. chevy did switch to 10 bolt in 77.

im not sure how your spring width compares to mine,but it looks fairly straight forward to install a gm front end into my 85 grand wag. the spring perches are off about 1/2 inch per side.close enough for government purposes,anyway. now you can use tierods and a drag link from a wide trac cherokee or j truck,but youll have to use the gm connecting sleves,which are longer,or in a worse case,have some made,which should be a pretty easy piece to manufacture. now all you have to do is make shock mounts. i personally would make mounts back on the frame,and duplicate the way shocks work on a chevy truck. the diagonal mounting offers more potential for wheel travel than a vertical one. there you have it-sprung over,disc brakes,and alittle wider to boot..

eventually id like to install a gm dana 60 up front and a big corporate 14 bolt out back. i hope the jeep gods dont take offense to corp gm running gear...



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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

[bigjeepguy]

Thanks for the info, I know I could find a 10 bolt for cheap, as I saw one in the junkyard on my last trip, as well as a sprung over 77 cherokee, however the 10 bolt frontend is not a bad front end, if used reasonably, but why would I want to use my jeep reasonably http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/smile.gif. The price from Boyce equipment is not that much different why not save up a few more paychecks and get the Dana 60 front with 4.56 gears for $1,750 as opposed to $895.00 with 3.08 gears, and they will do the spring pad changes, all I have to do is the steering that way, and I may modify my truck to run chevy springs in front for more lift options while I've got the frontend out. What do y'all think?

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Jonathan landon
1973 J-4000 3602v ,TH-400
Dana20,Dana 44's

[scotty]

there really is nothing wrong with the 10 bolt,most people agree that any strength differences between 10 bolt and dana 44 are marginal,if any. everything from the knuckles out will interchange. 10 bolt uses 27 spline axles,d44 uses 30.outer shafts are same,and use same u joints.some say that the 44 housing is just alittle stronger. you can get for the most part the same lockers for either,and prices are usually comparable.there is no trac lok available for 10 bolt,and you can go just alittle lower in gears- up to 5.57 for 10 bolt,and 5.89 for 44. again,a marginal difference. i plan to use a 44 simply because i might want to add a trac lock,and the other trucks that i have all have 44s n the front,and ive got extra 44 gears and diffs that would be useless in a 10 bolt.i want to keep things somewhat uniform,unless there would be a big advantage in strength-as in a dana 60.i run 38s with an open diff and a 6 cyl,and i have yet to have a problem with a 44,with the exception of a leaking axle seal. however,a front locker or limited slip is on the way,and it never hurts for drivetrain parts to be too strong,so as soon as i come across a good deal on a 60 ill grab it.

if you wanna rn 33s,i think youd be fine with a 10 bolt,depending on how you actually wheel your truck.there is alot to be said in finesse and picking the right lines. if you can afford the 60,there is alot to be said for the extra peace of mind if you are hard on your truck. it sucks to spend half your wheeling weekend at camp replacing broken axles or u joints...

af for the spring idea, t think it is worth it. if you used chevy springs,id highly reccommend tuff country. a good friend has 6 inch tuff country springs and shocks all the way around on his 79 gmc. it rides very nice on the street for an 6 inch lifted truck with 33 inch mud tires,not nearly as stiff as some ive been in. its also amazing how it handles-even with no swaybars its not frigtening taking corners at speed,unlike my jeep that feels like its gonna roll unless i slow down to 15 mph. on top of these qualities,it actually flexes enough to let the 33s get into the rear fenders,something that did not occur with the rancho 4 inch springs that were on it.rancho stuff is highly over rated. using chevy springs is definately something i was considering.

let us know which way you go and how it turns out...



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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

[bigjeepguy]

Scotty, you say that it handles good even with the sway bar removed, I am very interested, as my jeep has on sway bars, and the factory springs are worn out, it has about a 5-6" height difference front to rear, with 31's, awesome flex, but lots of body roll, and horrible ride(I think that the shocks are factory), but hey the truck was free, and came with all emblems and fender badges, all trim, factory paint, factory wheels, you get the point, but it is missing that real jeep look. thanks for all the helpful tips!

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Jonathan landon
1973 J-4000 3602v ,TH-400
Dana20,Dana 44's

[scotty]

dont get me wrong,it wont out corner a 911 or anything like that,but yes- it is amazing how well it handles.not at all like a lifted trcuk.we made the 70-something trip from dayton to haspin acres in less than 1 1/2 hours,which is all backroad state routes-no high ways to maintain constant 60+ speeds,if that tells you anything. it has no sway bar whatsoever. he does alignments for a living,and i think he runs alittle more caster than stock,which im sure helps. ive been in trucks with stiff springs that didnt have alot of body roll,but the most impressive thing about the tuff country springs is the good handling,AND very impressive articulation.as i mentioned,they let the 33s get into the fenders. the 4 inch rnacho springs never let the tire get up that high,and the ride was stiff and bouncy.

my jeep is quite the opposite-no sway bars or trac bars,stock 15 year old soft springs,and 38 inch tires.lots of body roll.ive got to slow waaaaaayyyy down for turns,but it sure ridesnice in the woods!

good luck with your project,keep us updated...



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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd