229 again

[okidoc]

So many questions...
1. How difficult is it to rebuild the 229 pre-explosion. Who is the best parts supplier?
2. Should I worry about an occasional "slap" sound that makes me think my chain is loose and definitely originates from the t-case when the vehicle is put into F or R from a dead stop?
3.Is my rig correct or has someone played doctor on it? I have an 87 GW 360 auto w/ manual locking hubs. I don't care about originality. I know it's the 229(tag says so) and I have the vac switch with floor range lever. I just don't want to put anybodies kids through college except mine. Plus I hate the sounds things make when they go "boom".

[joe]

Can't help on number 1. since I've never rebuilt one but it shouldn't be any harder than any other x-case "DO" buy the factory TSM though.

Yeah, worry about the chain slap. It's a warning sign...fix it.

Sounds like someone put manual locking hubs on yours. Which is ok sorta if you/wife/friend whoever drives the Wag "Does NOT put it in 4WD with the hubs unlocked". You'll destroy the viscous coupler in the x-case by doing so....$$$$.
-joe

[scotty]

is the "slap" in 2wd or 4wd? the cain should not really make noise simply from shifting from forward to reverse,especially if the 'case is in 2wd. when the chain in my 219 started going bad,it would at first do do only under loads,such as climbimg steep hills,or crawling over stuff. it just makes a "pop" or "slap" type of sound-start going up that hil,get about half way up and pop,pop-pop-pop,pop,pop. it just got worse to the point that now it makes the popping sound simply from pulling away from a dead stop at a stop light. your noise could be xfer case chain,but could also be other driveline slop in u joints or ring and pinions.

at ay rate,id definately fix it before something bad happens,be it xfer exploding, driveshaft breaking(and possibly catapulting you upside down-very,very bad) or ring and pinion stripping. the xfer case is a good place to start,since they are often neglected,and likely needs a chain anyway,even if this not actually causing your sound. four wheel parts wholesalers is one place that sells everything form gaskets to complete rebuild kits with chains,and they also have a "small parts kit" that contains hard parts that are not really part of a kit,but parts that commonly become worn.

there are a couple other places that advertise in "fourwheeler" that probably could help you also.

if that dont fix it,start with the u joint and work your way out at each end...



------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

possible small block chevy "test" swap in near future

[Brazzy]

The 229 case is probably harder to rebuild than most other cases. The chain slap may or may not be a problem. this case does not transfer torque to the front wheels unless placed in 4x and therefore should last longer, chain speaking, if it is not popping on acceleration while in 4x then it should be ok. I have rebuilt mine before and it is very complex even with a manual there are a total of 120 loose needle bearings of 2 seperate sizes and they WILL fall out of place if you open the case. I put mine together slightly wrong the first time and it burnt the front input shaft bearings and shaft, extra 250.00 and the front case was distorted by the heat so the second rebuild lasted only 10k miles. IF IT AIN"T BROKE DON"T FIX IT!!!! Agree with previous post about the locking hubs, If yours is bad I gotta spare I could sell to recoup my fix when it wasn't broke.

------------------
Brazzy
Formerly abused 87 G.W. 162k stock
TOW,PKG,727,229,360
The Chariot

[irbob]

First drain the case and check the chain play and stick your finger in the hole to try and find any metal parts.

I rebuilt mine when the VC went out. Changed all the bearings, seals, VC, fork pads, and had to build up the worn down forks.

Turns out that someone was in it before me and had the mode and range forks in wrong. I used a TSM from a 228 to take it apart then found that the Chiltons had a really good parts breakdown of the 229.

Your local mopar dealer will be able to get all the parts for it. Mine did except for the VC which are very hard to find. I found one. I have all the part numbers if you need them. Maybe I will put them on my web page.

I spent $700.02 on mine. It was kind of fun to rebuild. I can walk u through it if needed. The key is vasoline to get the needle bearings back in place.

Make sure that you isolate the problem before cracking it open. Let me know what your going to do.

------------------
Me (http://www.bigfoot.com/~irbob) IFSJA Window Sticker (http://www.angelfire.com/az/irbob/sticker.html)
83 Brougham, 360, 999 Auto, NP229, F/Dana 44F, R/AMC 8 7/8", 31X10.5 Pathfinder's, Rancho 9000's, 2" lift blocks, Custom Turbo II 2.5" single exaust, 3" Performance Products bodylift(soon). "Have you been off road lately?"

[scotty]

anything with a defferential is gonna be trickier to rebuild.one piece of advice here is to take it apart upside down,with the rear yoke pointing straight up. you can then very carefully take it apart losing all the little sticks(needle bearings). ive got an extra tranny to t case adapter that i bolt to my workbench,then just sit the t case on top of it.

get good manuals,and pay close attention to how it comes apart. this may sound alittle corny,but you can take a picture every couple of minutes. a picture is worth a thousand words and could save you sme headaches and gaurantee it gets back together right the first time. when i took the engine out of my celebrity i took several different pics of the engine compt so id remember how the million wires and vaccum hoses went back on.



------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

possible small block chevy "test" swap in near future

[ClarkGriswald]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scotty:
this may sound alittle corny,but you can take a picture every couple of minutes. a picture is worth a thousand words and could save you sme headaches and gaurantee it gets back together right the first time

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Always save your game.. he he he


------------------
88 Grand Wagoneer
D44's front\rear
Warn 20990 Lockouts
AMC 360
TF 727
NP 229 (Funky)
Custom Hacking Via S.P.A. (Standard Polish Archetecture)

[okidoc]

If I ignore it, it goes away right? I'll just plug my ears when I shift. Thanks all for the excellent advice. Should I consider reinstalling auto hubs? I'm not new to cars/trucks just to FSJ's and all your help is definitely appreciated. I'll inform the post when and how I decide what to do.

[okidoc]

Oh, yeah. Can I leave my hubs locked and drive in 2wd? In case when my five year old is driving she accidently knocks the vacuum lever?

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by okidoc:
Oh, yeah. Can I leave my hubs locked and drive in 2wd? In case when my five year old is driving she accidently knocks the vacuum lever?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure; that's how the factory drive hubs function.

------------------
Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[Snakeyes_Tx]

After reading all your posts and costs of builds, I am *SO* glad I just threw my 228 out the door and replaced it with a 208.

I wheel.. I mean REALLY wheel my rig, and I've been through count em, 4 transfer-cases. 3 228's and now this 208. The first case made Timex's bottomless case look like a joke.. there was practically no body on my transfer-case and the chain was visible at almost every angle. The second case I blew the chain out just on strain of the rock-crawl. The third one went quickly after bashing it on a boulder http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/smile.gif None of these cases had decent longevity, or desirable crawl ratio. And for the cost you guys put into rebuilding your 228s and 229's... I tore out the entire vaccuum mess and bought a NP208 out of a J-20 and went totally manual. The original floor shifter worked, the crawl is better, the case seems much stouter, and a little shorter without that center differential garbage. Now I have the simplicity of manual hubs and a floor shifter... the vacuum switch is just a lighted ornament now. You can get a 208 in decent shape for about 800. I'd totally got that way rather than blowing 750+ on rebuilds of a not-so-hot case. I've had this 208 for over a year and have done the same wheeling as the others and I have had problem 0 with it.



------------------
Snakeyes_Tx
86 J-20 "The Rusty Dinosaur"

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snakeyes_Tx:
After reading all your posts and costs of builds, I am *SO* glad I just threw my 228 out the door and replaced it with a 208.

I wheel.. I mean REALLY wheel my rig, and I've been through count em, 4 transfer-cases. 3 228's and now this 208. The first case made Timex's bottomless case look like a joke.. there was practically no body on my transfer-case and the chain was visible at almost every angle. The second case I blew the chain out just on strain of the rock-crawl. The third one went quickly after bashing it on a boulder http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/smile.gif None of these cases had decent longevity, or desirable crawl ratio...
[snip]
...bought a NP208 out of a J-20 and went totally manual. The original floor shifter worked, the crawl is better, the case seems much stouter, and a little shorter without that center differential garbage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They share the same crawl ratio (2.61 IIRC). The difference won't be in the strength of the chain or the case (they are about the same there), and the differential is only an issue in 4Hi. Since an NP228/229 can be used on the street, I'd say the average one engages the chain a lot more than the average NP208, so you may be comparing your experiences of worn NP228's to a relatively fresh NP208.

All I can say, though, is that they're ALL better than an NP207 (which is what the baby '84 Cherokee that a friend offered me has).

------------------
Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[scotty]

i dont have a good explanation for this,but ive seen and heard of a bunch of 228/229s with cracked/blown cases. i personally have a 229 downstairs with a cracked front case half. ive never heard of a person cracking a case on a 219,or a 208.i dont know exactly why,but this problem does seem alot more common on the 228/229. i agree the full time 4wd is a nice feature for someone who uses it only on the street. but if you wheel a 228/229 hard,it will break,and you cannot limp home on your front drivehaft in 4hi. and you still have that PITA dual shifter thing-with the problematic vaccum motor.

also,just for your info,i wheeled a 207 for about a year. the 231 is a much better design,but for what it is(a light duty case) the 207 held up surprisingly well with 38 inch tires in a full size rig . i quit using it when it started popping out of 4lo in reverse.it would be easy to fix,tho.its very simple inside. the biggest problem with the 231/207/242 in the xj,yj or tj is the lack of a fixed rear yoke.

i finally got tired of aluminum chain drive cases when i installed a 208 that had some sort of shifter lever problem.you cant beat the relaibility of a cast iron,gear driven xfer case for off road abuse.



------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

possible small block chevy "test" swap in near future

[ClarkGriswald]

Its because people with fulltime case's will leave em in fulltime 4hi, or like mine it gets stuck there. And the chain runs and wears out that whole time.. and eventlually does "the whip" and thats it.. with the part time case (NP208) you only use that chain when your in 4wheel which is only when you are wheelin.

------------------
88 Grand Wagoneer
D44's front\rear
Warn 20990 Lockouts
AMC 360
TF 727
NP 229 (Funky)
Custom Hacking Via S.P.A. (Standard Polish Archetecture)