driveshaft phasing??

[Veepster]

I was always taught that the 2 ends of the driveshaft should be 90 degrees from each other, and this is set by disassembling the spline and aligning...

sooo....my front and rear driveshaft were both one spline off from 90 degrees. I reset and runs smooth as silk(also had to due with loose yoke)

my question is: was my FSJ's PO a DS or is there something I don't know I don't know about FSJ's???

------------------
Peace.............BartG

the Green Flash!
78 Chero
360 2v, 400 QT with low

4" skyjacker
33x12.50 BFG KO's
Thorley headers, 3" exhaust
Infiniti power leather seats
50%LuxuryCar,50%Tractor

[River Beast]

Yo have corrected the phasing problem... you are right. U-joint actually run is a sphere (oval) rather than a circle. Due to the angle they operate at as they spin, one is accelerating.. the other is decelerating. Being a couple of splines off will cause an overlap in the opposing spheres...and at the RPM's the joints are spinning will certainly cause a vibration. Hope I didn't confuse you...

------------------
Todd
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's locked w/ 4.88's
soon to be 38x14.50 TSL- SX Swampers
7" SOA in front-7" Rear Shackle Inversion Mods
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
My E-mail: spazz4life@yahoo.com
"If you can't stop...SMILE as you go under!"

[Veepster]

not at all...thanks for the confirmation!

------------------
Peace.............BartG

the Green Flash!
78 Chero
360 2v, 400 QT with low

4" skyjacker
33x12.50 BFG KO's
Thorley headers, 3" exhaust
Infiniti power leather seats
50%LuxuryCar,50%Tractor

[GM Killer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by River Beast:
Yo have corrected the phasing problem... you are right. U-joint actually run is a sphere (oval) rather than a circle. Due to the angle they operate at as they spin, one is accelerating.. the other is decelerating. Being a couple of splines off will cause an overlap in the opposing spheres...and at the RPM's the joints are spinning will certainly cause a vibration. Hope I didn't confuse you...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

River Beast = Drivetrain Rocket Scientist



------------------
Matt~
79 Cherokee Cheif Wide Trac
Transplanted 401 w/ Edelbrock Performer Package
TH400 / Q-Trac
4" Skyjacker Softride lift
3 inch bodylift
35" Mud T/A's
____________________
99' Mustang Cobra -
320 HP F-body eater
____________________
93 Mustang Coupe 4 Cyl
Soon to have a transplanted 351w homemade twin turbo set-up :)

[ClarkGriswald]

He he he you said rocket!
Seriosly RB is like the Nikola Tesla of suspension. (If you dont know who Nikola was or what he did then you need to find out, History has a way of writing itself around the people who put on a good song and dance rather than the real genious{edison was a poser}).

------------------
88 Grand Wagoneer
D44's front\rear
Warn 20990 Lockouts
AMC 360
TF 727
NP 229--Soon to be replaced by an NP208 that currently inhabits my kitchen.

"I came, I saw, I typed some stuff!"

[Dave _S]

This is very interesting. Its amazing what one can learn from this group. I don't have any driveshaft problems, but I will check mine this weekend to see if they are lined up.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by River Beast:
Yo have corrected the phasing problem... you are right. U-joint actually run is a sphere (oval) rather than a circle. Due to the angle they operate at as they spin, one is accelerating.. the other is decelerating. Being a couple of splines off will cause an overlap in the opposing spheres...and at the RPM's the joints are spinning will certainly cause a vibration. Hope I didn't confuse you...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[porkchop]

How did you get yours apart? I tried to get mine apart and it just won't move.

------------------
'67/'79 Wagoneer mix
"Old Timer"
Body of a 33 year old
Heart and legs of a 21 year old.
Spirit of a 1 year old.
360,TH400,QT,D44's F&R
SOA 32X11.50's

"I regret that I have but only one paycheck to give to my Jeep."

[scotty]

sometimes you need a torch to heat it up and a BIG hammer! http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/smile.gif

[Brazzy]

I have been trying to chase down vibs in my truck for a year now and am VERY interested in this topic. I looked at the shaft while replaceing the motor mounts this weekend and I noted the rear shaft appears to be the same on each end Not 90 degrees out. The front shaft appears to be off by one spline. PRAISE BE TO THE LORD!!! IF this is what I've been looking for. But I'm with the previous post, how do you dissassemble the shaft I believe the last time I had it apart it locked when pulled to it's full length.

Brazzy 87 G.W.
The Chariot

------------------
Brazzy
Formerly abused 87 G.W. 162k stock
TOW,PKG,727,229,360
The Chariot

[christopher]

I know this sounds as if I don't know crap about driveshafts and I don't, but when you talk about 90 degrees what do you mean? I am comfused about all this. I would love it if someone would explain all this and even make sketches if possible. I too have vibes I can't track down to a bad u joint. please enlighten me

[Michael F]

What do you mean by 90 deg out? If you look at the yoke ends on the shaft they should line up like this =-----= not this
=-----C I have worked in a trans shop and installed shafts in to many trucks to remember and the shafts always vibrated lined up the second way, but the first way is what you meant, right? Cheers!

------------------
Michael Forman
81 Cherokee Laredo WT
51,000 orig. miles
360/727/208/3.31/31x10.5AT
79 Cherokee Chief WT (snow plow)
360/400/QTw/LR/31x10.5
My family has 7 FSJ's!!!

[Michael F]

Oh I forgot to mention, the slip shaft will come apart after you bend the tabs on or unscrew the cap from over the splines on the female part of the shaft, and if you do heat it up be careful not to melt the plastic coating on the male splines.

------------------
Michael Forman
81 Cherokee Laredo WT
51,000 orig. miles
360/727/208/3.31/31x10.5AT
79 Cherokee Chief WT (snow plow)
360/400/QTw/LR/31x10.5
My family has 7 FSJ's!!!

[scotty]

ahhh yes- i had fogotten the pretty blue plastic cover on the splines...



------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana 20 swap very soon
searching for dana 18 to replace the 20...

[ClarkGriswald]

Mine came right apart, and yes, the blue stuff... must be mines been apart before

------------------
88 Grand Wagoneer
D44's front\rear
Warn 20990 Lockouts
AMC 360
TF 727
NP 229--Soon to be replaced by an NP208 that currently inhabits my kitchen.

"I came, I saw, I typed some stuff!"

[Brazzy]

I dunno now I'm really cornfused, Veepster sounds like the phaseing if set up correctly will look like =----c right? 90deg? mine rear shaft is =-----= and front is =---c but is off one spline. please help!!!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael F:
What do you mean by 90 deg out? If you look at the yoke ends on the shaft they should line up like this =-----= not this
=-----C I have worked in a trans shop and installed shafts in to many trucks to remember and the shafts always vibrated lined up the second way, but the first way is what you meant, right? Cheers!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



------------------
Brazzy
Formerly abused 87 G.W. 162k stock
TOW,PKG,727,229,360
The Chariot

[River Beast]

Brazzy,

Basically, the joints oppose each other. When the shaft is on the ground .. or in the rig... the end caps that get strapped in are opposite. Two caps will be in the 6 and 12 o'clock position and the other end caps will be at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions.

Does this explain it better? IF not I can try again another way...


------------------
Todd
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's locked w/ 4.88's
soon to be 38x14.50 TSL- SX Swampers
7" SOA in front-7" Rear Shackle Inversion Mods
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
My E-mail: spazz4life@yahoo.com
"If you can't stop...SMILE as you go under!"

[Shane]

I must agree with Michael F. The phasing of the drive shaft should have the u-joint yokes lined up the same.

Shane

------------------
1982 J10 Model 25 Pioneer
My Daily driver since 1988
D44,258(.030" over),T5,NP208,AMC20

[This message has been edited by Shane (edited October 09, 2000).]

[Veepster]

Riverbeast explained it the best....3 and 9 on one end 6 and 12 on the other...

the front on mine was sseperated by just yanking on it!....there is a big rubber thing that holds in the grease just puu and it will slip past it.

the rear was different..the cap right at the slip joint had to be nscrewed and then they slipped apart.

------------------
Peace.............BartG

the Green Flash!
78 Chero
360 2v, 400 QT with low

4" skyjacker
33x12.50 BFG KO's
Thorley headers, 3" exhaust
Infiniti power leather seats
50%LuxuryCar,50%Tractor

[Brazzy]

Thanks for the clarifcation The way veepsteer is explaining this is that the straps on each end should be 90 deg from each other =---C The other post disagreed with you theory and stated the straps should be the same on both ends. I am sure that my front is off and is probably causeing vibes
just wasn't sure whos right on the correct "phase" Thanks also for telling me about the way to get each end apart as I would have been beating on it, and broken it, and have to go to the bone yard to get another.

------------------
Brazzy
Formerly abused 87 G.W. 162k stock
TOW,PKG,727,229,360
The Chariot

[ClarkGriswald]

I guess I never thought much about how they were put together.. I thought that they just build em and balance em somehow and they stay like that.. how do they balance them??

------------------
88 Grand Wagoneer
D44's front\rear
Warn 20990 Lockouts
AMC 360
TF 727
NP 229--Soon to be replaced by an NP208 that currently inhabits my kitchen.

"I came, I saw, I typed some stuff!"

[Joker_87GW]

Interesting!!! I have a strange vibe when I get on the highway. Could this be caused by my driveshaft not being phased in correctly?

I'll have to check the ends to see if thats the case. I'm going to be doing rod bearings and main bearings soon, so I'll check the shafts while I'm under there.

Thanks guys!!!



------------------
Byron Yeiser
'88 Grand Wagoneer
"The Wanderer II"
360/727/NP229

'87 Grand Wagoneer
"The Wanderer"
360/727/NP229

Home of Loaded Camera Photography (http://www.loadedcamera.com)
photos@loadedcamera.com

Quote: "If it doesn't leak, how can they call it a Jeep?"

[Brazzy]

Veepster, Drive shaft GOD!!!

It works!!!! no more vibes at 65-70 mph
I have been trying to get rid of this vibe for soooo long. replaced almost everthing and even rebuilt the t case (I won't go into that) yeah, yeah, hell YEAH.

------------------
Brazzy
Formerly abused 87 G.W. 162k stock
TOW,PKG,727,229,360
The Chariot

[Michael F]

If this works =---C I can't argue with it, heck, I may try it, but I have pictures from the Jeep shop manuals (79 & 81) that show it this way =---=. I can email them to whomever wants them or any other info for that mater out of the books.

------------------
Michael Forman
81 Cherokee Laredo WT
51,000 orig. miles
360/727/208/3.31/31x10.5AT
79 Cherokee Chief WT (snow plow)
360/400/QTw/LR/31x10.5
My family has 7 FSJ's!!!

[jezmond]

ok guys ya lost me! i got the same vib between 20-30 mph then it goes away. http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/confused.gif this is after i put the 4" lift in.please help i can't stand this vib, it's driving me nuts. http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/mad.gif

[bignblue]

I was told by my Jeep shop owning buddy to line up the yokes on a plane (strap sides at 180 deg), and even after I did this I still have vibration problems. I'm gonna try to set 'em up at 90 deg and see if that helps.

------------------
'78 Chero WT
401/4bbl/TH400/BWQT
44s F&R
"Jeep: the toughest 4-letter word on wheels"

[MonsterMash]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael F:
If this works =---C I can't argue with it, heck, I may try it, but I have pictures from the Jeep shop manuals (79 & 81) that show it this way =---=. I can email them to whomever wants them or any other info for that mater out of the books.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to see pix of '84GW set-up (F&R) if you got 'em. My manual covers FSJs from '57-'86 and has pix showing both an inline and a 90degree set-up and a ton of different driveline configs.



------------------
'84GW360--"Spinner"
And on the eighth day God created Jeep so man would not be bored.

[Michael F]

MonsterMash, Did you get the pix? the newest manual I have is 81 and I think I may have sent them twice, sorry if I did.

------------------
81 Cherokee Laredo WT
53,000 orig. miles
360/727/208/3.31/31x10.5AT
79 Cherokee Chief WT (snow plow)
360/400/QTw/LR/31x10.5
My family has 7 FSJ's!!!

[irbob]

Ok I see what u guys are up to. "If I can get everyone under there FSJeeps at one time I can concure". Well NO I'm not going under there. I'm scared. http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/eek.gif I said, "NO".

------------------
My FSJeep Site (http://fsjeep.tripod.com/fsjeep/) IFSJA Window Sticker (http://www.angelfire.com/az/irbob/sticker.html)
83 Brougham, 360, 999 Auto, NP229, F/Dana 44F, R/AMC 8 7/8", 31X10.5 Pathfinder's, Rancho 9000's, 2" blocks, Custom Turbo II 2.5" single exaust, 3" Performance Products Bodylift. "Have you been off road lately?"

[River Beast]

Remember... the pics in manuals are not always correct. Many publishers of manuals just put in what they are given to publish. I work with technical manuals everyday for aircraft systems... I have found several illustrations to be incorrect in their depictions throughout the years. I think it's safe to say that all manuals have some degree of error in their depcitions at times.

------------------
Todd
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's locked w/ 4.88's
soon to be 38x14.50 TSL- SX Swampers
7" SOA in front-7" Rear Shackle Inversion Mods
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
My E-mail: spazz4life@yahoo.com
"If you can't stop...SMILE as you go under!"

[MonsterMash]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael F:
MonsterMash, Did you get the pix? the newest manual I have is 81 and I think I may have sent them twice, sorry if I did.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got it, thanks! Your pic of the front shaft is the one I have captioned "'85-86 Wag/Chero and all Comanche models". The pic of the "'84 & some '85" shows the rearward joint encased in a cylinder like cover called a "double offset joint" driveshaft. Gotta' watch JAG now, more to follow. Thanks again!


------------------
'84GW360--"Spinner"
And on the eighth day God created Jeep so man would not be bored.

[fulmetal]

hey before you all go moving the spline clocking on your rigs remember that if you or the previous OP did not seperate the shaft and put it back together wrong. The shafts are usually balanced at the time of production. That is what those square weights welded at certain locations are. Be carefull you might be openning a can of worms that will cause yoou more problems in the long run ie. seal leakage, joint failure ant the worst of all diff or case damage. So just dont go moving the splines if you are not sure http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/smile.gif

[MonsterMash]

I'm back from JAG and Dark Angel (great new sci-fi show--I'd like to scan her bar-code) and just a couple last words. My manual says under the heading: "All except the 4WD 1984-86 Wagoneer, Cherokee, Comanche" "Some driveshafts are marked at the slipjoint with arrows on the spline and sleeve yoke. When installing the driveshaft, align the arrows to have the yokes at the front and rear of the shaft in the same parallel plane."
However if indeed the u-joint orbits are elliptical it is logical to assume that the apogees should be at 90degrees to one another. http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/confused.gif


------------------
'84GW360--"Spinner"
And on the eighth day God created Jeep so man would not be bored.