Heated discussion!

[porkchop]

Me and a guy at work were talking about engine and tranny swaps. He said that the TH400 used on our trucks has the same bolt pattern as an earlier (50's or 60's) 350. I don't know if this is true or not. Also he said the 727 is a better tranny than the TH400. I want to get some good opinions from the experts on this one. Thanks.

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'67/'79 Wagoneer mix
"Old Timer"
Body of a 33 year old
Heart and legs of a 21 year old.
Spirit of a 1 year old.
360,TH400,QT,D44's F&R
32X11.50's

"I regret that I have but only one paycheck to give to my Jeep."

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by porkchop:
Me and a guy at work were talking about engine and tranny swaps. He said that the TH400 used on our trucks has the same bolt pattern as an earlier (50's or 60's) 350. I don't know if this is true or not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

??? As the earlier TH350? or 350 engine?

In any case, the TH350 ('68 or '69) came out later than the TH400 (1965). And the Jeeps used a TH400 with the bellhousing to fit the AMC motors (via adapter on earlier models, and later with integral bellhousing), which didn't share the GM bellhousing pattern.

The '68-'71 TH400's fitted to the "Dauntless" (Buick) 350's were not the same as those used in the Buick passenger cars of the time, as they still used an adapter ring to mate the Buick 350 motor to the universal-style bellhousing.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Also he said the 727 is a better tranny than the TH400.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are about equivalent, give proper care and feeding. There were stong and stronger versions of each; there would be no discernable advantage in swapping from one to another, however

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Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[joe]

PC, the TH400 used in FSJ's has a "Jeep specific" case and will not bolt to a Chev motor w/o an adapter and input shaft change.
The guts are interchanable but the bolt pattern is different on the GM and Jeep cases. Personally I think the TH400 is the toughest AT ever built this side of the old two speed Power Glide. The TF727 is a good trans but the TH400 is better...but a Mopar fan will prolly think otherwise http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/wink.gif
-joe

[porkchop]

I agree with you. I just wanted some more water to put out his fire. He said the TH400 used with the AMC motor has the same bolt pattern as earlier 350 engines. I tried to tell him that it is Jeep specific. Also he is a BIG Mopar man, that is why he believes the 727 is the best there ever was.

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'67/'79 Wagoneer mix
"Old Timer"
Body of a 33 year old
Heart and legs of a 21 year old.
Spirit of a 1 year old.
360,TH400,QT,D44's F&R
32X11.50's

"I regret that I have but only one paycheck to give to my Jeep."

[RUDY79]

I've owned chevy's and Dodge trucks. In fact I was a chevy junkie before i owned my first dodge truck. My old 440 busted axles, u joints, rear ends but the 727 never flinched. This th400 leaks endlessly wont shift right and i've burnt th400's with only 350's when i had chevy's. the th400 is a strong good trans but the 727 is better.

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79 WAGONEER,360 AMC, TH400, QUADRA-TRAC, 31" MUD T/A's, 2 1/2" add a leafs.

[KENALL]

ALSO
on AMC th400 cases, the bolt holes in the torque converter bell area are indexed left of center. this tilts the trany clockwise relative to the motor to provide some more room for the CV joint in reference to the th400 pan...

ALSO, the early (65-73) th400 case was a buick 'nailhead' v8 case purchased by Kaiser. THAT early Buick v8 had part of the torque convertor housing cast into the back of the block so the th400 case bell portion was shaved to compensate. this 'shorter' cased th400 was a boone to those manufacturers that wanted the robust th400 but did not want to pay to have a 'engine specific' case cast for them. all the 'end user' had to do was to make a simple adaptor for their motor to mate the two.

if u can ever get a 65-73 Jeep th400 and an AMC th400...measure the case lenght to the end and notice the early case is about 2" shorter...

this also means that these 'shorty' th400 case are, for us at least, interchangable to a point. if a person with the 327/th400 wanted a buick V*8 (ANY buick v8 350-455) or an AMC v8. all he need to do is to find the proper Kaiser th400 eng adaptor and bolt in in place of his 327 adaptor and then bolt on the proper motor. of corse u need the special flex plate too.

confusing...eh?? ")

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1966 Super Wagoneer
'The Predecessor' http://home.earthlink.net/~kenns9/index.html

[This message has been edited by KENALL (edited August 30, 2000).]

[RUDY79]

Kenall,
Would a Buick 350 or 455 fit a TH400 on a 79 wagoneer?
Interesting?

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79 WAGONEER,360 AMC, TH400, QUADRA-TRAC, 31" MUD T/A's, 2 1/2" add a leafs.

[Baker]

The TH400 was used in school buses (high-torque engines pulling heavy loads).
The 727 was used behind the 426 Hemi, including in '64 when the Hemi made its street-legal debut and was still built as a race engine (~600 bhp, at least that many lb-ft torque)...the '64 Dodge Hemi/727 had the pushbuttons on the dash.

[KENALL]

no rudy.
65-73 cases wood only work in this WILD swap, and only if the right OE jeep buick adaptor cood b found. urs is too nu...u cood swap in a chevy BB tho...

Baker..too be REALLY picky, the th400 u speak about is actually designated th475. the big difference is the straight cut gears in the planetary gear set, and more clutch packs etc..



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1966 Super Wagoneer
'The Predecessor' http://home.earthlink.net/~kenns9/index.html

[bigjeepguy]

I know I have zero space to talk, but after driving several auto shifters, f*rd supercoupes, bronco, and a chevrolet auto, a monte carlo ss, none of these trannies gave me the same driving pleasure as a manual tranny, and the bronco overheats its C6, the ss slips its 200R4, and the white supercoupe blew up the torque converter, although it was a blast, and would run 140+ on backroads, look where its auto got it, on blocks, go with a stick, I want to do a resto mod type deal in my truck, so it will keep the th_400, but the 727 I only know about those behind cummins 5.9s which devour auto shifters, and 5 speeds (getrag and NV4500).

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Jonathan landon
1973 J-4000 3602v ,TH-400
Dana20,Dana 44's

[RUDY79]

Really Kenall? A chevy 454 will bolt up to my TH400?
I doubt the Quadra Trac will live long behind that.
I have been considering just pulling a 360 Mopar (or a 440) with it's 727 and a NP205 as a whole unit and dropping it in my Waggy since my Tranny is slipping and the motor needs work too.

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79 WAGONEER,360 AMC, TH400, QUADRA-TRAC, 31" MUD T/A's, 2 1/2" add a leafs.

[KENALL]

sorry rudy,
the 454 wood bolt up ONLY if u have the adaptor from AA. about 300$

well if u convert to the 727/205...i wood like to buy th400/QT

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1966 Super Wagoneer
'The Predecessor' http://home.earthlink.net/~kenns9/index.html

[This message has been edited by KENALL (edited September 01, 2000).]