? about quadratrac and 360 vs. 258.

[dutchd]

Hi all,

I need some input please.
1. I'm looking into buying an 1980-1983 Cherokee and I'm wondering which engine everybody likes better and why. I had a 1980 J10 with the 258 and it never seems to have much getup and go. Is there any reason to want a 258 over the 360?

2. I think I found a 1981 Cherokee with Quadratrac that looks good except for one thing the owner said. He said that he has unhooked the front drive shaft since he doesn't go offroad much and just bolts it back on when he goes. He said he keeps it unbolted because the front tires tend to hop a little in sharp turns due to the quadtratrac xfer case. That's not normal for quadratrac is it? Is quadratrac really all that great?

Thanks A LOT for input.
-Danny
---------
1980 Cherokee S Widetrac
1964 J300 Gladiator

[River Beast]

I will answer No.2 for you...

What it sounds like he's doing is removing the driveshaft and engaging the E-drive. The E-drive locks the front and rear driveshafts together internally thru a coupling ring on the rear side of the center diff housing of the QT (100% locked). If a QT has the front (or rear) driveshaft removed and the e-drive not engaged... your talkin' neutral, in a sense of the rig not moving, but the center diff of the QT will get abused this way if not damaged due to the torque applied thru the the tranny. The QT center diff is like and open diff in a rearend. It will allow power to transfer to the side of least resistance... the side with no shaft. The rear yoke will not move, but the center diff would be spinning (chewing on the brake cone which drives the rear) at the same time the front yoke is spinning away. The QT is a full-time unit that should not be driven in E-drive on dry pavement or the result is the hopping and chirping of the tires as the current owner describes. E-drive was meant to be used when traction is at a minimum. A Fully functional QT on pavement is ok... but there is a condition called "stick-slip" which can cause a similar effect. This is caused by the fluid not lubricating the center diff properly. It probably needs a fresh fill of QT fluid... it solved my problem. There are some write-ups on the QT in the tech section of the IFSJA site. Read 'em all and learn what you can from pickin' members brains for stuff you can't find.

As for the greatness... I LOVE mine!!! http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/biggrin.gif Wouldn't want anything else in my rig after havin' it. I did all the research I could to find pros and cons and "how to" stuff and tackled mine with ease and feel VERY confident in its abilities. Hope this helps you out some. http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
TJ
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's (soon to be 4.88's)
7" SOA conversion
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
33x12.50's on 15x10's
(soon 38.5x14.50's on 12's)
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
"Where there's a hill...there's a way!"

[This message has been edited by River Beast (edited July 19, 2000).]

[dutchd]

Thanks for the info Riverbeast. It was helpful. I had read all I could find in the tech section and elsewhere and am pretty confident that the QT will be the way to go but I'm leary about this particular one.

Is it possible that the e-drive could've gotten stuck and this guy doesn't know about it? So he removes the front drive shaft to get better handling.

Think this has trashed the QT?

[bignblue]

Dutch, it could have stretched the chain a bit. Count on replacing it anyway--if the DSPO just dropped the driveshaft instead of trying to fix what obviously was a problem it's doubtful that he maintained the t-case in the manner which it requires. As for the quality of 'em, I love mine. I don't have to fiddle with hubs, worry about vacuum engaging mechanisms, semi-viscous couplings, or any number of other cr*p like that. Plus, mine has the low range unit: I won't be scaling Rubicon rocks anytime soon but in a recent trip to the coal region of Virginia (lots of uneven-ground offroading and mudholes) I had no problems getting up or down anything I pointed my Chero at.

I would definitely try to find a 360...there's a couple of guys in the classifieds forum selling them, or you can throw worries to the wind and shell out for a reman engine. Good luck!


------------------
'78 Chero WT
401/4bbl/TH400/QT
44s F&R
"Jeep: the toughest 4-letter word on wheels"

[rm126]

The 258's seem t last longer than the 360's, at least in my experiance. I had 231,000 miles on my 258 before I rebuilt it, and of the 2 360's I've owned, one went out at 90,000, and the other at 110,000. They seem kind of gutless, but that can be fixed. 4.0 head conversions, fuel injection, aftermarket intakes and carbs, etc.

------------------
79 Cherokee Chief Wide Trac
258 I-6
Offenhauser Intake w/Holley 390 4bbl.
Crane Cam, Springs and Lifters
Borla Header
TH400/QT w/Low Range

[dutchd]

First of all, I really appreciate the pieces of brain posted here for me to pick. http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/smile.gif

bignblue:
You mean replace the chain right? Not the whole case. Excuse ignorance but what does DSPO mean?

anyone:
Is it possible to tell if the QT case has the optional low gear without getting under the Jeep and looking for it on the xfrcase?

I'm pretty sure I could tell if I was able to look at it but I'm not. I'm Trying to do as much as I can over the phone/email before I make a 9hr roadtrip to go see it.



------------------
<><><><><><><>
1980 Cherokee S Widetrack
1964 J300 Gladiator

[scotty]

one thing that sholud be pointed out is that,unless someone swapped in a borg warner QT,the so called "quadra trac" in an 81 chero is a completely different animal.it is a new process 219.you now have a 727 torqueflight tranny,and a driverside front diff. the 219 doesnt have a vaccum switch,or "E drive" like the BW QT.you have a plastic flag with 4 positions-hi lock/full time hi/neutral/low lock. he must be driving with the xfer case in the hi lock position. in full time mode,you should NOT hear front tires doing something weird. it maybe he is not taknig it out of hi lock to drive in 4wd on pavement,or it could be an internal problem with the locking mechanism or the center diff.

have him put the front shaft in and check out all positions of the transfer case shifter before giving him any $$$

as for engines,the 258 will never accelerate you to 60 mph in 5 or less seconds,but it will take one helluva beating.mine has been on fire,completely under water,overheated, and run on its side,or straight up with no oil more than id care to admit to.you just cannot kill the little buggers.

------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

[This message has been edited by scotty (edited July 20, 2000).]

[Veepster]

question along the same lines....

78 Chero QT w/Low auto

I installed a set of Thorley headers and now find out that they were not designed for a vehicle with a lift kit(mine has 4" skyjacker) so the crossover tube is in the way of the front drive shaft.....so can I remove the front drive shaft, lock the xfer in emergency drive and drive the 20 miles to get the crossover tube modified and then reinstall the front drive shaft? thanks!

Peace.............BartG

[River Beast]

BartG,
Yes you can... I drove in E-drive for over a year without a shaft after I snapped mine. Kinda "clunky" from drive to reverse but no fear, it'll work.

------------------
TJ
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's (soon to be 4.88's)
7" SOA conversion
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
33x12.50's on 15x10's
(soon 38.5x14.50's on 12's)
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
"Where there's a hill...there's a way!"

[dutchd]

thanks scotty,
what year did Jeep switch from the B-W QT to the NP219? Is one better than the other or more prone to last/less problems?

Now I wonder about the differences in the TH400 and the 727 TF trannys. Back to the tech pages for more reading.

Anybody have any comments?

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dutchd:
thanks scotty,
what year did Jeep switch from the B-W QT to the NP219? Is one better than the other or more prone to last/less problems?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-&gt;'79=BW1339
'80-&gt;=NP219

Both will last with regular care. Both will fail if neglected. No stock or even mildy-modified motor will harm either, though severe use will stretch the chain quicker. The chain on the BW1339 sees all engine power all the time, as it drives both axles, while the NP219 only drives the front shaft via the chain, so theoretically, the NP219 will have longer chain life.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now I wonder about the differences in the TH400 and the 727 TF trannys. Back to the tech pages for more reading.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-&gt;'79=GM's TH400
'80-&gt;=Chrysler's TF727

Again, with regular care, both will last 200,000 miles behind a stock FSJ. Run either dry, and they grenade. If properly cared for, both can handle whatever you throw at them.

------------------
Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[dutchd]

Do the BW1339 and the NP219 perform equally as far as off-road capability?

Would one pull be out better than another?

Also, did the NP219 have a standard low range gear while the BW1339's low range was an option?

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&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;&lt;&gt;
1980 Cherokee S Widetrack
1964 J300 Gladiator

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dutchd:
Do the BW1339 and the NP219 perform equally as far as off-road capability?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In equivalent modes, yes. The one advantage the BW would have is the possibility of a 4Lo full-time mode for maneuvering in tight spots. The slight difference in low-range reduction ratio is negligible.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Would one pull be out better than another?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm... sure. http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/confused.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Also, did the NP219 have a standard low range gear while the BW1339's low range was an option?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly; on the BW case, it was a bolt-on, while on the NP case it's integral to the design.

The BW case was apparently designed to take on other things at that point, like a PTO (which is how that cover is designated in the early literature). Conceivably, you could even bolt on an OD unit, like the Saturn on the D18. I don't know that anything other than a Low-range reduction unit was ever manfactured for it, though.

------------------
Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[This message has been edited by BobBarry (edited July 20, 2000).]

[chrislisa]

I have a 1976 cherokee S with a 360 and 400 + Quadratrac, and it has over 160,000 miles on it, and has lots of power. I also don't think you can go wrong with the quadra trac unit.

[chrislisa]

I have a 1976 cherokee S with a 360 and 400 + Quadratrac, and it has over 160,000 miles on it, and has lots of power. I also don't think you can go wrong with the quadra trac unit.

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Chris Blunck

1976 Jeep Cherokee S