Draining the Torque Convertor

[Thomas DeBusk]

Someone recently told me that you can drain the torque convertor on some Fords by removing one tranny cooler hose and running the engine in PARK (don't shift gears or rev the engine or you'll shred the tranny). Something about the pump emptying the convertor.

The subject came up because I'm changing the tranny fluid on my '83 Wag. Does anyone know if you can do the same with this 727?

[Baker]

The pump on the 727 doesn't work in Park, so I doubt it. You could try it in Neutral, but I take no responsibility for anything that happens as a result.

[scotty]

that is probably the biggest reliability problem with the torquefligth trannies. the convertor drains halfway when you shut it off,and wont refill until you put it any other gear. one way this causes problems is if you run out start her up,and put it in R or D immediately-im sure lots of us have noticed it sometimes takes a second to go if shift immediately into gear from park.there is alot of stuff inside the tranny that gets no lube until the convertor has filled.

another big no-no is to leave it runnning in park in the winter while it defrosts the windshied and you eat your doughnuts and coffee. this burns up the pump and its bearings pretty quickly.

the moral of the story is shift into neutra and let it run before putting it in D or R. put it in N to warm up in the winter. and defiantely do not flush it out by removing the coolig lines with it running. the best way is to simply drain and refill it 2 or 3 times,letting it run for awhaile between each fill(in N of course).

a knowledgeable,reputable tranny shop can make modificatios to the valve body that the covertor does fill in park,so those considering a rebuild in the near future may want to ask around and find a shop that has alot of experience with the TF tranies. the guy that did my first one does this to everyone that he builds,since most everyone that he gets is form either a broken convertor,or some other "not filling in park" reason.that and people burn them up by leaving the throttle pressure linkage unhooked,thinking that it is simply a "kickdown" lever...



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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

possible small block chevy "test" swap in near future

[RUDY79]

Scotty,
It's a reliability problem in theory only I think. I've had two Dodge 4x4s, both 77s and still have the original trannies. Well except the Ramcharger. I got a hair up my A** and decided to replace the 727 with a NP435 four speed with the killer low first to climb the steepest rocks and stuff (trans was still strong).
Well anyways this Waggy is a 79 and the guy before me kept having problems with the TH400 and had it serviced two years ago and now I think the pump is ging out and it's slipping now and always leaked.
The funny thing is I doubt if this thing was ever taken off road.

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79 WAGONEER,360 AMC, TH400, QUADRA-TRAC, 31" MUD T/A's, 2 1/2" add a leafs.

[scotty]

not to insinuate that this happens to every TF tranny on the road. but it is something to be aware of. the guy who rebuilt mine does lots of them.i am relaying what he told me based on his years of experience rebuilding them,and the hundreds hes rebuilt,not simply a "theory".

the reason i had my first 904 rebuilt was a broken convertor,so im inclined to believe him.



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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

possible small block chevy "test" swap in near future

[ivanho]

Scotty,
The TF-904 tranny and the TF-727 are two different animals when it comes to reliability. I here stories all the time of TF-904s crapping out on people (not that they are horrible trannies, they just don't handle serious abuse or really high mileage all that well. This is why Chrysler biult the 727. It has a very good reputation as a "heavy duty" tranny, and it is known for being able to take abuse (although to be honest, if I could afford to be picky I'd go with a TH-400).

My point is that you can't use a bad experience with a 904 to judge a 727. That would be like considering the TH-400 a mediocre tranny because of the horrendous track record of the "terrible" TH-200.

For the record, one of the off-road mags a few months back (I think it may have been Peterson's 4-Wheel & Off-Road) had an article on "Indestructable Drivetrains". They listed the TF-727 as one of their top 3spd automatics, just behind the TH-400.

[ClarkGriswald]

For 3 bucks I just got a tranny drain plug kit from the local parts monopoly. Pull the pan once and change the filter and install the drain kit.. (hollow bolt with a and a nut, with a bolt that screws into that bolt with an o-ring to seal it) just drill a hole in a good spot and put it in there.. then replace the 5 or so quarts of ATF.. run it for a week and drain it again from the drain, and refill. couple times like this and you should be golden.. just about to do it myself..

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88 Grand Wagoneer
D44's front\rear
Warn 20990 Lockouts
AMC 360
TF 727
NP 229 (Funky)
Custom Hacking Via S.P.A. (Standard Polish Archetecture)

[scotty]

i dont think that either are bad trannies. im not using my broken torque convertor to judge torqueflight autos,either.

again,i am simply relaying what a professional transmission rebuilder that has rebuilt numerous TF trannies told me. again,i am inclined to believe him,since the tranny i had had one of the problems he was telling me about. if you want to leave your 727 in P while it warms up,go for it. your choice. i just thought some people may be intrested in what IS a common problem with torqueflight transmissions.

yes,the 904 is a different transmission,but both it and the 727 DO NOT fill the convertor in park.period. this can lead to other problems. thats all im saying. i also do know of people who have killed 904s and 727s by driving them for prolonged periiods of time with the trhottle pressure linkage unhooked.one guy in particular that drove a dodge truck from somewhere back to ohio-something like a 1500 mile trip.it lasted less than a month upon his return.

i am on my 4th 904(i think) and still, i do not think its a bad tranny. im happy with its performance,and has for the most part proven very reliable. the only reason i keep replacing them is plain and simple water. you can spend a million dollars building the baddest 727 or th400 and if you submerse it in 5 feet of water,its dead just the same,if you dont get it out ASAP.

to further embelish the point that i think highly of torqueflight trannies,my 727 was missing a couple of bolts in the adapter between the tranny and t case. i got it stuck in a 4 foot deep mudhole and it eventually quit moving.the fluid looked like pepto bismol. i had to call AAA- no driving home that time. anyway,i took it apart and did nothing than very thouroughly clean the mud out of the valvebody,clutches,etc,and put it back together. i bought a convertor with a drain plug,and that sucker still works!

dont misunderstand that i think the TF trannies are bad. quite the opposite. they are alot more versatile with transfer case options(you can use a dana 300 or any of numerous new process cases) than the th400(youre stuck with BW q trac unless you swap tailshafts and adapters). i have a very high opinion of the 904 and 727 autos.

i am simply trying to help a few people maybe get a few extra miles out of their trannies before a rebuild or replacement...

last and and not least,i will continue to use a 904 unless i swap in a t18. i am about to swap in a small block chevy,since i have found a 904 that will bolt to it!

any furhter questions?



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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

possible small block chevy "test" swap in near future