spring over conversions

[Lococoin]

i would like to hear from anyone who has done a spring over on their full size jeep. if anyone has done one let me know.

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Steve (77 jeep j20)

[KENALL]

go to my web site for some pics.


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1966 Super Wagoneer
'The Predecessor' http://home.earthlink.net/~kenns9/index.html

[Marc_01]

Kenall,

How does your jeep handle on the road with that custum drag link? any bump stear?

[KENALL]

lots bump steer
but then i dont use it on hiway exept to get to the trail. but since i dont have a sway bar installed, it leans alot in the corners...
the jeep is safe to drive, but far from being driven with only 'one' hand...

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1966 Super Wagoneer
'The Predecessor' http://home.earthlink.net/~kenns9/index.html

[Marc_01]

I want to do a spring over conversion on my 87 GW. So whats your best advise on keep bumb steer to a minimum? Can you do anthing else other than replace the pitman are with a drop pitman arm?

Thanks

[Lococoin]

from what i hear unless u drop your steering box so that the drag link is parallel with the tie rod you will get bump steer. i guess you could lower your steering box or you could go with a chvy front end already set up soa. just a thought anyway

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Steve (77 jeep j20)
360 four barrel
t18a tranny Dana 20
dana 60 rear
dana 44 front
3.73 gears with limited slip in rear

[fulmetal]

Ben there done that. I did one on my 84. Here is the low down Use the chevy d 44 knuckles to raise the steering above the springs after the soa. You will need to manufacture them out of cold rolled steel at a machine shop. They look the same as the d35 set you see in the mags. You can put all of the steering over the spring or just the drag link with custom heim joints. They sell them to specific length, R&L handed threads. I will say that there is a noticable increase in the sway especially in the rear after the shackle flip. BUt still is managable on the road. My steering is easily a "one-hander on the freeways in CA." The one thing is will forwarn you is there are a lot of things to consider when doing this mod. Let me list them 1)
1) You will have to design the new steering linkage so as not to interfere with the wheel offset when you are done ie as you raise the center of the steering you are no longer in the horiz. center of the wheel as you go upward the radius becomes tighter to the appex of the arc hence you have less clearance

2) Swapping in the Chevy d44 is a lot of work for example rightside drop TC longer diff meaning more $ do have it shortened and axles re-splined.

3) If you have the heavy front springs on your 88 then I believe you have a 5 or 6 front leaf. You are looking at around 7- 71/2" of lift just with the SOA. The cast of the d44 has one large u bolt and on smaller one on the short side. You will need to flatten this top area for the new perch. All of this leads to one thing your front drive angle is going to be so bad you will need to either A) lower the t/c. B) remove a leaf or to depending if you have add-a-leafs installed and either which way you go you will have to modify the cross-member to allow for the increased angle. Just a note I purchased a wood's custoim drive shaft with life time trail hazard warranty for around 350$ Long travel dana/spicer joints etc.

After all of this there are still things that I cannot remember. All I can say is that I am happy with my trail rig now, it will almost anywhere now
The last piece of advice is that I can give you is that the harder way is usually the best way dont cut corners on your suspension and steering components. Especially if you trail ride with the wife and kids.LIke i said mine is a one handed driver even my wife can drive it she just cant get in it http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/smile.gifSO good luck with your project I hope I have shed some light on the harder points.. If you have any specific questions E-,ailo me at cox4family@home.com. I will have pics comming soon of my mods, see you on the trails

[Marc_01]

I would like to know some tips on doing a SOA using the regular stock suspension. I know a drop pitman arm and brake lines are a must. But is there anything else on the market that will help? I heard that skyjacker has a track bar braket with one of their kits.

I would think on a SOA conversion, keeping the stock pitman arm and getting a custom drag link built would be the better way to go. oops, can't do that, because the pitman arm will hit the drive side leaf. Well, maybe a pitman arm and a custom drag link would to the trick?

[This message has been edited by Marc_01 (edited May 16, 2000).]

[KENALL]

hey marc01..y u think the pit arm will hit the D side spring???

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1966 Super Wagoneer
'The Predecessor' http://home.earthlink.net/~kenns9/index.html

[Marc_01]

Well, the last time i looked at my jeep, i was trying to imagine how the spring over conversion would work. But now after you ask, the OEM pitman arm shouldn't hit the spring because the spring doesn't get relocated, its the axel, duh.

Had a brian fart for a min there.

[KENALL]

did u see the pics of my SOA on my web site???

im useing the OE pit arm from a 77 wag, along with the OE tie rod...

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1966 Super Wagoneer
'The Predecessor' http://home.earthlink.net/~kenns9/index.html

[Lococoin]

Kennal

yes i saw the pics. the z drag link looks good but its not legal to cut,weld,bend,heat steering components in alberta.

i havent ever had my jeep inspected as it has never been driven by me.

i will need to get it done so modifying steering wont let it pass.

i was thinking of going to a machine shop and getting them to bend one shaped like your z drag link but id make it look like it was engineered.

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Steve (77 jeep j20)
360 four barrel
t18a tranny Dana 20
dana 60 rear
dana 44 front
3.73 gears with limited slip in rear

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc_01:
Well, the last time i looked at my jeep, i was trying to imagine how the spring over conversion would work. But now after you ask, the OEM pitman arm shouldn't hit the spring because the spring doesn't get relocated, its the axel, duh.

Had a brian fart for a min there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You will have to worry about the drag-link hitting the passenger-side spring, however. One solution to that is to what the Chevys do and relocate the steering arm to the top of the passenger-side knuckle.


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---
Bob Barry
'78 Cherokee 4-door
'88 Grand Wagoneer
http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[Marc_01]

What parts are need from a chevy soa to do the conversion on a grand wagoneer?

[River Beast]

Chevy Dana 44 knuckles are needed for the SOA steering conversion http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/wink.gif

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TJ
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
33x12.50's
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
Where there's a hill...there's a way!"

[Marc_01]

I see you have 7inch of lift on your rig with 33's. Is it possiable to fit 35's?

Also, you have a 3in body lift, but your bumbers are in the correct position? how did you actieve that? Thats why im trying to get as much suspension lift as possible becuase i don't like body lifts (because of the bumpers)

thanks for any info

[River Beast]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc_01:
I see you have 7inch of lift on your rig with 33's. Is it possiable to fit 35's?

Also, you have a 3in body lift, but your bumbers are in the correct position? how did you actieve that? Thats why im trying to get as much suspension lift as possible becuase i don't like body lifts (because of the bumpers)

thanks for any info<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes.. I can run 35" tires but I personally will not because of the terrain I run on and the offset of my 10" wide rims will allow the 35's to hit the fender lips (lots of axle articulation). With 8" rims... no problem at all.
http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life/bumper.html

This is the link to my site where I gave a detailed explanation of how to make your won bumper relocation kit. It is strong... I have tested it by lifting my FSJ with a hi-lift jack. Feel free to ask me any Q's on the "how-to" AFTER you read the page. Just click the link above to open a new window directly to my site.


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TJ
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
33x12.50's
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
Where there's a hill...there's a way!"

[This message has been edited by River Beast (edited May 19, 2000).]

[Marc_01]

Nice site bro, very helpful. I looked at my jeep after reviewing your site and i looks like i could relocate the rear bumper fine, but the front appears to look more difficult.

With your 33.1250 on 10in rims, does your tires stick out at all or are they about even with the side of the truck?

How much did your 4" system cost?

[This message has been edited by Marc_01 (edited May 20, 2000).]

[River Beast]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc_01:
Nice site bro, very helpful. I looked at my jeep after reviewing your site and i looks like i could relocate the rear bumper fine, but the front appears to look more difficult.

With your 33.1250 on 10in rims, does your tires stick out at all or are they about even with the side of the truck?

How much did your 4" system cost?

[This message has been edited by Marc_01 (edited May 20, 2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanx...front bumper has two more peices than the rear ,but same concept.

My 33's sit flush with the edge of the fender... that's why I wouldn't attempt to run a 35 with the 10" wide rim as she sits now...

My Skyjacker Softride 4" lift complete with 4 springs, Nitro Shocks, Nitro Stabilizer and a Drop pitman arm ran me $1104 out the door and worth every penny! Different venders will have a variation in price on the springs... $630 up to $725 when doing my research on best price. I paid alittle extra from a local shop to have the "support" of a "go-thru" shop in case I ran into problems... which I never have.

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TJ
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
33x12.50's
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
Where there's a hill...there's a way!"

[This message has been edited by River Beast (edited May 20, 2000).]

[Marc_01]

That lift seems like the easier way to go, but im wondering why you choose a kit rather than the SOA? I ask this because, you seem to be able to fab components pretty well.

Has your buddy had any problems with his SOA?

Sorry for all the questions but im just trying to figure out the best way to lift my truck and put 35's on it with out spending a arm and a leg.

This truck of mine is a daily driver so highway prefomance is a consern. The trails i will be hitting are around 2 1/2 hours away.
http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/frown.gif

[River Beast]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc_01:
That lift seems like the easier way to go, but im wondering why you choose a kit rather than the SOA? I ask this because, you seem to be able to fab components pretty well.

Has your buddy had any problems with his SOA?

Sorry for all the questions but im just trying to figure out the best way to lift my truck and put 35's on it with out spending a arm and a leg.

This truck of mine is a daily driver so highway prefomance is a consern. The trails i will be hitting are around 2 1/2 hours away.
http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At the time I bought my system, my factory springs on the front were bent due to "slight air-time" I caught off a sand dune which I didn't see. I figured best to replace 'em rather than fix 20 yr old springs. I really didn't know of the SOA until after my system purchase.

As for fabbing my own stuff... thanx for the vote of confidence. I do what I need to for personal taste and feasability for useage. Most of the things I've done to my FSJ are helpful hints and ideas all from yours and my fellow FSJer's out there that love to help others out with stuff.

No serious problems that have been noticed with either of my friends SOA (Jesse or Porkchop)other than the slight bump steer you get from the angle of the steering linkage. Kenall has a good shot on his web site of his version of the 'Z' bar linkage and I like it!

SOA really isn't that pricey... if done right the first time. You keep saying 35's and "highway use" ... I hope you plan on installing a compatible set of ring and pinions to compensate for the 35's.

If you want to fit 35's you wiil need to get 2 pair of Rancho 2.5" full-length AAL's (for front and rear), the SOA with blocks in the rear plus the 3" bodylift. For gears.... minimum of 3.73(highway use with NO low end) but would recomend a 4.11 (closer to stock ratio w/ 35's... these are my picks for a good setup.

Don't think I haven't thought of a SOA conversion... I'm in the thought process now plus getting some aluminum metal work done on a modified QT adapter to drop the outputshaft yokes a little lower (thanx to Kenall for that Idea). It will take some time to figure out all the mods for my FSJ. IF I go thru with the SOA... this will equate to roughly 14" of total lift (4" springs, 7" SOA and 3" bodylift) that's not including tire size yet... we shall see...


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TJ
78 Wagoneer "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
33x12.50's
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
Where there's a hill...there's a way!"

[This message has been edited by River Beast (edited May 21, 2000).]

[Eric]

Marc_01,
Just my opinion, but 35's are too big for a wag. Off road they will rub badly in the rear unless you take steps to limit articulation (and who wants to limit articulation?). I have a 4' Suspension Lift + 2" Body Lift and still needed to trim the fenders a bit in the rear to avoid contact under extreme articulation. I only have 32's! Also, if you do trim to make the 35's fit, you are pushing your stock axles to their limit. For light wheeling the stock axles are probably fine. Try stopping at a tire shop and test fitting a 35" tire in the rear! Good luck.

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Eric Faust
89 GW
http://members.home.net/ericf1/html/jeep.html

[Marc_01]

Yeah i know, 35's will be tough but im going to do it, some how? http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~zeimet/ubb/smile.gif

Well this is the truck look im pretty much trying to build. I think this truck is awesome! http://www.cfsja.org/rigs/barge.html

Im not building this truck for crazy trail riding, im building it to enjoy driving and turning heads. It will mostly handle snow and sand.

If i was to build a serious off road truck, the Wagoneer would not be my choice, a XJ with 33's would be more practical for off road than my wag. Practical sucks, going big is where its at. hehe

Thanks guys for all your help!

Im going to go with the SOA on the front with the rubican express 2.5x2.5 anti rap spring perchs, pro comp brake lines, pro comp pitman arm, pro comp shocks, rancho 2.5 add a leafs for rear and 4 inch blocks. 2 inch body lift. 3.73 ring and pinions, and cut as much fender as i can off the front and back.

The back fender whell will be cut all the way to the door. Then a sheet metal strip will be welded to close the seem of the inner and outter quater panels, this should allow for at least 3 or 4 inchs of more vertical tire clearance.