HELP!Motor running very badly.

[RudyC]

A week ago my wagon started running badly and idling like a paint shaker.
I changed the plugs and they were fowled with fuel I also put new wires.
Still ran bad.
rebuilt carb replaced leaking power valve.
still ran bad.
replaced ing. module.
still ran bad.
checked all hoses for leaks and replaced PVC valve.
Still ran bad.
new carb base gaskets.
still bad.
rechecked ppower valve and still have fuel in cup. How if power valve is new? I rechecked it by blowing on it and it dont leak and the round gasket is new so how is fuel getting in there?
Why is it running so bad?
I also checked the EGR and it's fine too.
Really need help with this one.

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1979 WAGONEER, 360, TH400, Q- TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).
" Go farther, it only breaks on the street"

[Veepster]

float set and working correctly?....

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Peace.............BartG

the Green Flash!
78 Cherokee
360 2v, TH400 QT with low
4" skyjacker Rancho 9000's
33x12.50 BFG KO's 8" American Racing Baja Rims
Thorley headers, 3" exhaust, Dyno Max
Infiniti power leather seats
50%Luxury Car, 50%Tractor
http://www.teamgodspeed.com

[ClarkGriswald]

Heat rizer vavle stuck shut?

[RudyC]

Float good, set at 15/16 as per book.
I run it and then pop off the carb lid and fuel is nice in the middle some place so it's not flooding from bowl.
No heat riser. Popped it off and welded the side holes it only works as a spacer.



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1979 WAGONEER, 360, TH400, Q- TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).
" Go farther, it only breaks on the street"

[Rob]

Sounds like the typical problem I run into almost every year with some cars of mine once winter starts. I dont know if you have something like winter in LA(?). First time it occurred I checked everything like you did. Then I put the ignition timing about 4 or 6 degrees later. That helped. Since then I believe cars need different tuning summer and winter.
What happens when you start your car? Does the starter engine turn very slow during 2 or 3 seconds and then pick up speed? That would indicate the above mentioned problem.

[Veepster]

are you sure it is running on all 8? to check pull off each spark plug wire one by one and you should not a difference in how the motor is running...oh and if you do this try to not touch anything but the spark plug wire( not even leaning againest fender)...or you may end up with a little shock..

------------------
Peace.............BartG

the Green Flash!
78 Cherokee
360 2v, TH400 QT with low
4" skyjacker Rancho 9000's
33x12.50 BFG KO's 8" American Racing Baja Rims
Thorley headers, 3" exhaust, Dyno Max
Infiniti power leather seats
50%Luxury Car, 50%Tractor
http://www.teamgodspeed.com

[RudyC]

Its not nunning on all cylinders. the #8 and one other dont change the idle when i pulled them.
Thats why i replaced the wires. Still bad.

I pull wire it goes click, click but no change.

And timing doesnt help no matter were i set it. right now timing is set to where it idles best but thats not saying much.

Vacuume guage is a steady 17 hgs or psi whatever.

[This message has been edited by RudyC (edited November 20, 2000).]

[Coley]

RudyC,
Mine was running like crap, too. Stalling at stoplights, backfiring when I juiced it..Just awful..Replaced the coil and rotor and she runs like a champ.


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84 GW
360 727 NP229
Totally stock
"You're obsessed with that thing!"

[This message has been edited by Coley (edited November 20, 2000).]

[reddog]

Are you running the 2150 Rudy? If so then does the line for the vacuum signal run to the manifold? Are those the cylinders that aren't "firing". The fuel getting past the power valve as you know is bad. Figure out how thats happening - bad gasket?
On my 2150 the power valve failed and it ran as you discribe. Found the cylinders that were fouled were the ones that were getting raw fuel via the vacuum line for the power valve. New power valve fixed it.

[RudyC]

Yes its a 2150 but it doesnt have a hose attached to the cup over the PV. it has a small hole that goes into the base of the carb. so it gets vacuume fron there.
It has a new PV and PV gasket but it still gets gas in there I might replace the gasket with a O ring and see what happens.

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1979 WAGONEER, 360, TH400, Q- TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).
" Go farther, it only breaks on the street"

[reddog]

On the rebuild that I did receintly on my stock 2150 the power valve in the kit had poorly cut threads. I was a little concerned driving the thing tight thinking that I may have cross threaded it so I took it back out and it was threaded correctly just cheap. It was very hard to turn as it came tight against the gasket, so much so that I double checked to see that it was not leaking after things were all back together. This was from a Borg-Warner rebuid kit.

[Wagthe78]

If your cylinder(s) still aren't firing, then it could be the dreaded broken valve spring(s).

Easy to check by pulling covers.

I've spent three days tuning, and it turned out to be a bad spring. This was on a F 150 though, but it's a universal problem on high mile vehicles.

[River Beast]

just thought I would give my .02...I had a pushrod go thru the top of the rocker on a previous vehicle which resulted in a dead cylinder, but no unusual noises. Check your rockers good.

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Todd
78 Wagoneer, "River Beast"
360/TH400/QT
Dana 44's locked w/ 4.89's
39.50x15x15 Super Swamper TSL's
7" SOA in front-7" Rear Shackle Inversion Mods
4" Skyjacker Softride
3" Trailmaster Bodylift
My FSJ site: http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life (http://www.geocities.com/~spazz4life)
My E-mail: monster_fsj@hotmail.com
"If you can't stop...SMILE as you go under!"

'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"

[Veepster]

if those holes are dead, it is time to do a compression check....I would do all the mechanical checks first such as rockers, springs, push rods.....and then a compression check...is the other one that isn't firing directly across from #8....if so that could pint to a cam problem....when you have the valve covers off pay close attention to lift......also are you SURE you have spark plug wire order correct?..........

------------------
Peace.............BartG

the Green Flash!
78 Cherokee
360 2v, TH400 QT with low
4" skyjacker Rancho 9000's
33x12.50 BFG KO's 8" American Racing Baja Rims
Thorley headers, 3" exhaust, Dyno Max
Infiniti power leather seats
50%Luxury Car, 50%Tractor
http://www.teamgodspeed.com

[Dave _S]

Rudy, you need to narrow down the problem a little more. You say two cylinders are not firing. Did you check to see if those cylinders have spark? If they don't have spark, you have an electrical and probably easy to fix problem. If they have spark, you have a mechanical problem.

After you figue out whether its mechanical or electrical focus on what could make only two cylinders not fire. For instance, if you have spark, the problem is electrical. Ok so don't bother replacing the coil, because if the coil was bad, no cylinders would have spark. What could make only two cylinders not spark? Two things come to mind , the ECM which you have already replaced, but also the distributor. Its a magnectic pickup type distributor, two pickups could be bad, thus two cylinders don't spark but the others are fine. That's where I would start looking.

[Veepster]

good call Dave!......and an easy way to check the dist would be to rotate the spark plug wires one or two places to the left(or right).....then if the pickup was bad the 2 cylinders that occupy the posts of the old(non firing) cylinders would not be firing...make sense?

------------------
Peace.............BartG

the Green Flash!
78 Cherokee
360 2v, TH400 QT with low
4" skyjacker Rancho 9000's
33x12.50 BFG KO's 8" American Racing Baja Rims
Thorley headers, 3" exhaust, Dyno Max
Infiniti power leather seats
50%Luxury Car, 50%Tractor
http://www.teamgodspeed.com

[RudyC]

Thaks Dave,

Firing order is ok. Checked it on the book. I get spark when I pull the wires at the cap spark jumps up to the metal end, tick tick tick even or the #8 cylinder that. But I dont remember if i checked all the wires that way so I'll do that tonight.
Actually only one pick up and the shaft has 8 little thingies (magnets?) in the shaft that energize the pickup. so if I pull the plug wire at the cap and it goes tick, tick it should be good then since each cylinder has its own magnet.

I'm going to check the plugs again to see what they look like now. if any are fouled.
Veepster,
I have a feeling its a leaking power valve or the gasket in between. Which I replaced this weekend by the way.
I pulled the carb again last night and removed the cap over the Power valve and it was full of gas again. How? maybe seeping round gasket? dunno. I cleaned it off and blew into the back side and then sucked on it and i didnt notice any leaks in the diaphram. Wish i had the model with the hose on the cup so i can check it with a vacuume pump.
I have a junked PV that I'm going to fill with epoxy so no fuel gets through it. this way i can compare the difference. If the pv was leaking the plugged pv wont let any fuel flow. Since the PV is closed at idle it should run ok as long as i dont gas it.

The motor by the way was rebuilt two or three years ago. and I get a steady 16 to 17 psi of vacuume.

Funny thing is it ran stronger now that its idling so crappy. I took it around the block so wife can get her van out of the carport so I can have better lighting and it just leaped when i gassed it. Like it lost a few hundred pounds but when i stopped it shook even more badly.

Thanks guys by the way for all your input and ideas.
If I get this bug fixed I'll treat you guys to drinks in Tijuana or something.



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1979 WAGONEER, 360, TH400, Q- TRAC. 3" ADD A LEAFS, 31" MUD T/A'S (PEP BOYS CLONES).
" Go farther, it only breaks on the street"

[This message has been edited by RudyC (edited November 21, 2000).]