Twin Traction Beam jeep

[Brad Posadas]

So I'm at the juck yard yesterday and i see a Rhino chaser grill (from like a mile away) so i venture over to have a look. Very nice shape short bed. Pop the hood, 230 Tronado with a holley two barrel (the kind that is really a 4 bbl cut in half (interesting) then i look underneeth and am totally dumbfounded. An open knuckle (44, 27,???) that has a u-joint right in the middle of the axle and is connected on a pivot on the cross member (think Ford TTB). It has radius arms as well as an A-arm for use of the torsion bar setup (Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley???) after getting the door open i discover the vin tag Just says Willys, not jeep, not Kaiser (odd).

Is this some rare factory option, help me save it from the crusher and get me some info

[CheapJeep]

this is an early (63-65?) FACTORY 4wd w/ independant suspension, yes, fairly rare, but very hard to get parts for (aren't they all!)

[rustywagoneers_com]

that is a very rare piece.... too bad it is in the junkyard already...

although that doesn't always stop me... i am just not big into the resto thing...

peace,
Dave

[Elliott]

Nice find, let TonkaJ200 know about it.
Here's a pic of the 4x IFS:
http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/1963-1987-Pickups/65j300a.jpg

And 2x IFS was also available:
http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/Technical/2xIFSMedium.jpg

[JeremySmith]

I've only ever seen drawings of one of those, So I'd grab it if I had the chance. Where do you think ford got the idea?

[Tonka J200]

I've never seen an early IFS 4x4 in person either.
If you go back, please get some photos and the VIN number. If it's not too rusty, it's worth saving.
The 2bbl. Holley is the stock carb for the 230.

[waynestiles]

just looking through the service manual that came with my new-to-me 4wd '64 truck.
in the front axle section it shows both a solid and an IFS system for both the 2WD and 4WD versions. the 2wd is simply split and hinged in the center; the 4wd is a whole lot more complex. I don't know which version my truck has, it has't been delivered/picked up yet--waitng on the legals but Ive got the keys and the service manual.

[Brad Posadas]

The truck would be a very easy resto as whole thing is very straight and fairly rust free. The vin is 24068 10108. I have pics, how do i get them onto here.
BTW someone turn the torsion bars up to clear 33's. Its actually better than a TTB because it uses an a-arm and spindle.

[Ghinmi]

Here's a link I found on here a while back, it's the independent 4x4 setup stripped down to the frame so you can see the suspension. http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ifs/

Greg

[Brad Posadas]

Does anyone want me to persue a price for this

[Mikel]

That is certainly a very rare vehicle worth saving!

[JeremySmith]

If you email them to me, I can post them up this evening. If you don't want it, I'm sure someone here would be interested.

[Tonka J200]

Originally posted by Brad Posadas:
Does anyone want me to persue a price for thisUmmm....yeeaaahhhh...I guess you better....

The VIN is most likely 2406B 10108 (not 24068).
This is an early VIN number - I'll look it up in my info at home this evening.

[Brad Posadas]

Well, i can buy the whole thing (quite a surprise) for $800, but no title. That shouldn't be a big deal though for you diehards, cause you can always apply for another one, or swap vins, ;)
Call me, Brad @ 302-258-5271 for more info, I don't work for the yard, I just spend all my money there

[FSJeeper]

Originally posted by Brad Posadas:
Well, i can buy the whole thing (quite a surprise) for $800, but no title. That shouldn't be a big deal though for you diehards, cause you can always apply for another one, or swap vins, ;)
Call me, Brad @ 302-258-5271 for more info, I don't work for the yard, I just spend all my money thereThis would definitely be a great find for a resto buff. And would definitely be worth saving for historical purposes.

But in the real world, the system was not reliable and had a lot of problems. Definitely not anything someone doing real wheeling would want.

[Tonka J200]

I looked up the VIN and it was built in September of '62, so not only is it a rare IFS 4x4, it's also a VERY early J-series truck.
I wish it were closer to me, it'd make a great addition to my "museum of FSJ oddities".

Where abouts in Delaware is it?

[JeremySmith]

Look what I found in my mail.
http:///jeep.jeremysmith.us/images/ifs/1.jpg
http:///jeep.jeremysmith.us/images/ifs/2.jpg

He says there are more to come

[Rande]

Pics don't show Jeremy.

As I understand VINs, the serial numbers began at 10,000. So that would make that the 108th truck built.

[ March 28, 2006, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Rande ]

[Elliott]

108th of the B series (4wd IFS).

[Brad Posadas]

Does it really matter where in DE, we are 8 mi wide at the narrowest, 32mi at the widest and 132 long. but if you must ask central. I'm going to have my farming freid buy it if i can't get someone on here to get it. he has two m715 and what was left of my 63 waggy that i had for sale on here awhile ago. You can hit the body everywhere and get the same "ding" sound aka no filler, the ONLY rust i could find was above the doors on the roof. The guy at the yard said it will only be there for a week and that would be pushing it, Please save it, I'm a college student and just don't have the funds

[Brad Posadas]

If someone want s more infor please call me Brad @ 302-258-4271

[Tonka J200]

2406B includes all 6600 lb GVW 4WD J200's - both solid axel and IFS. I can't find any breakdown as to how many IFS units were built, but I'll bet it's pretty few.
This truck is the 108th of this model, but I also totaled up all the J-truck production (all models) through Sept. '62 and it was 627. So this is one of the first few hundred J-trucks built.

It sure is a unique piece. Surely there's someone on the east coast that will rescue it!

[Gawdzilla.]

wow....that's a really cool find. Hope someone here snatches it so we can see the resto progress.

[Brad Posadas]

I really hope it gets saved my only other option is to seel my 78 big block club cab Dodge and use the money to get this truck. i do already have the factory ramsey PTO winch off of the Waggy i had.

The interior color of the truck in like a pink champange, is that original.

[Bama Burden]

Is anybody gonna snatch it up?

[Chris P.]

Here are the pictures. They had an extra / in the URL so they didn't show.

http://jeep.jeremysmith.us/images/ifs/1.jpg

http://jeep.jeremysmith.us/images/ifs/2.jpg

[Elliott]

Nice looking truck, hard to see that get crushed...

[talntar]

if only..........
some one get this quick
that is in to good a shape to crush

[KaiserMan]

Someone has to nab that truck. It would be a crime to let it go to the crushers. If I had the cash I'd be set for a road trip. It's worth a long ride.

[Brad Posadas]

Well i also posted the link to this page on fsjworld.com hoping to save this truck. You figure parting it out would net you close to $800!!

[Bama Burden]

Well I would think that you could at least resell it on ebay or this site at some point and easily get your money back. If I weren't about to take a vacation that I can't afford, then I'd give you, Brad, the money just to buy it and hold on to it for a little bit for me.

[Elliott]

Any takers?

[DanHS]

Why don't I have $800 now??? Tell the guy at the yard that you're sure you can get a buyer soon as it's so rare, at the least tell the guy to hold onto and put it up for sale as he'll certainly get his $800 at some point. Crushing such a rare truck would be like commiting murder.

[83 chif]

I'm not far at all, if only they would take my CJ for a trade. I do have a friend who said he was very interested in a J truck without rust, but if he bought it, he'd probably tear out the IFS and throw a solid axle in. (if that is even possible on that truck?) I guess I'll tell him about it anyway, it's a nice truck IFS and original or not. I'll let you guys know what he says.

[mudchucker7]

hey brad , just tried to call you, but busy.what kinda shape are the 715's in ? i'm in seaford and delmar every day. already have a 715 but can never have enough parts . you're the second local i've run into in the past week on the site . look forward to talking to you.

[Brad Posadas]

Sorry guys, my phone died, I got my scap loaded up and will be heading the the junk yard tomorrow. I will take a bunch of pics. I will tell him its sold but that the person is in upstate NY and have to verify the pics I have to send him. Yeah its a lie but i need to buy time. If i have to I will sell my '78 big block club cab dodge and buy the willys (jeep). Man my mom is going to be pissed off cause it doesn't have a title.

[Elliott]

btt for a buyer...

[chrisnsarah]

What makes it more rare is it's the IFS 44, not the 27 used on the waggies. Parts are out there but tough to find. I've seen a few on ebay and one at a PicknPull back in the mid-90's. If I knew back then what I know now, I would have tried to rescue it.
Too bad it's too far away, but hope someone gets it.

[KaiserMan]

I know someone who has a IFS 44, it's the only one I have ever seen in person. I repeat, if I had the cash, I'd be all over this truck.

[ March 30, 2006, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: KaiserMan ]

[Gambler68]

That's worth $800 to someone with an extra $800. You'd at least make your money back on parts, or have a solid rig to build up.

Plus, look, it's shiney!

[Brad Posadas]

BTT for savior

[Crossbones]

I sure could use the starter out of that.

[Elliott]

Maybe the guy would let you list it on e-bay with a reserve of $800 and let you keep anything above that... if nobody in the area steps up.

[chrisnsarah]

I second the EBAY idea. Work out a consignment deal with him and just set the reserve at $800 and see what happens. You'll handle all aspects of the sale. He would be stupid to pass this up, but most junkyard owners are pig-headed enough, so good luck.

[rustywagoneers_com]

dang... anyone wanna buy some of my junk, and figure out a 'bucket brigade' to get it moved?

this truck needs to live...

peace,
Dave

(seriously, i think a 'for-fuel-cost' bucket brigade to move this to whoever buys it is a good idea, and probably a helluva magazine article)

[chrisnsarah]

Originally posted by rustywagoneers_com:

probably a helluva magazine article)As long as Cappa isn't on the receiving end. We all know what happen to the panel wag. :D :D :D

[lgrjeep]

Aw Hell,
I can't help myself.

Brad, tried to call ya, consider it sold, or bought, or whatever. Will need some help to get this taken care of and back here. Are there any members in that area to help with this. If so please let me know.

Brad I'll continue to try and reach you please get this thing set aside. Thanks

I really need to find a mental health professional.

[Brad Posadas]

O, so My farmer friend and i went over today to check it out. I didn't even notice the spare 230 OHC in the bed. (Thats would be a total of 5 for him). Well we offered him 4 bills but he said he needed 6. In the end as it goes the farmer and i will be "saving" it tomorrow. It will look awesome next to the 2 M715's. I appreciate all the help with infor and finding someone to get this. You can be sure there will be tons of picture for this rebuild.
Once agian thnks everyone
~Brad

[Elliott]

Excellent! I look forward to seeing some more pics of this rig, and hopefully an article done up on it. :cool:

[Mikel]

It's great to see a truck like that saved from the crusher smile.gif smile.gif

[Brad Posadas]

It took him bout 1 minute to decide he HAD to have it, on top of that it is getting a back to original color resto and the 230 IS going to stay.

[Tonka J200]

COOL!

[ricbee]

Well,it looks like he'll be on this board soon!

[Brad Posadas]

Well not a whole lot of progress (Still). We have been converting chicken houses over to service bays and such. The farmer, his name is Jay, has been workin a lot of different jobs since quiting the chicken biz. And I have been busy pursuring college degrees, workin on numbers 2 and 3 right now.

We will be needing a tail gate at some point as well as 3 or 4 original wheels.

I'll get some new, more detailed pictures up, heck, I might even draw in up on autocad at work. lol

[Elliott]

Good deal. Hey, there's a guy looking for 230 parts that has an add in the wanted section if you have spares...

[Brad Posadas]

Well, generally life (school, jobs, loss of jobs, jobs, moving) has gotten in the way of this project, but is had been stored inside since it was saved. I think it time to start working in it. Maybe i can buy it/trade for it from the farmer.

Couple of question.

1. What to do about a title for it??

2. Are any references for parts to service the front axle.

3. cost to rebuild a 230?? Have 5 motors so parts aren't an issue.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/ruquik/BHAF006.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/ruquik/BHAF001.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/ruquik/1.jpg

-Brad

[Chris P.]

I had forgotten about this truck. Glad to see an update!

I find it amazing that someone would let such a nice looking truck go to the junkyard.

[red mistress]

this thread was over before I joined IFSJA.

Just read thru it and that is important FSJ oddity.

I would think parts like the rubber bushings could be machined from polyurethane.

Bet Kaiser used parts from mix of other mfg. makes parts. Doubt very many parts were special made for the IFS. Although figuring out what vehicle they scrounged them from would be hard.

What parts does the truck need? I can search for them...those parts are so rare that they're not worth anything...but collecting more dust.

[shackwrrr]

Pm member ricbee. He should be able to help you get a title. In michigan you just apply for a title with a bill of sale and they print a nice fresh one out for ya.

[waynestiles]

Its a little more complex than that, unfortunately. you have to have a cop check for the VIN and certify that it isn't on a national hot car list. At least that the hoops I had to jump through when I bought the '51 willys PU a few years back.

Dunno how you'd be able to do it across state lines. but maybe if a MI resident "bought" it out of state and wanted to title and plate it for MI so he could "drive " it back home; the DMV might agree to an out of state cop doing the inspection and certification---maybe, possibly---probably not.

[grand_wag_85]

This will help:
https://www.colorado.gov/apps/dps/mvvs/public/entry.jsf

[The PIG Smith]

Pm member ricbee. He should be able to help you get a title. In Michigan you just apply for a title with a bill of sale and they print a nice fresh one out for ya.
Here's another plug for Rick.

[The PIG Smith]

When you have time, could you take some pics of the front axle for us?

[Long&Low]

Here's a link I found on here a while back, it's the independent 4x4 setup stripped down to the frame so you can see the suspension. http://home.off-road.com/~wagoneer/ifs/

Greg

Some of those pics, show what may look like a hydro steering assist set up on that front end. Very similar to the early 70's Ford hydro assist system. Interesting, I knew of the IFS Jeep stuff, but never heard of a hydro assit option on early Gladiators, nor have i heard of anyone speaking of them.

Very interesting.

[Tonka J200]

Some of those pics, show what may look like a hydro steering assist set up on that front end. Very similar to the early 70's Ford hydro assist system. Interesting, I knew of the IFS Jeep stuff, but never heard of a hydro assit option on early Gladiators, nor have i heard of anyone speaking of them.

Very interesting.

Early Gladiators and Wagoneers with Ross-style steering all used hydro assist if they had power steering. When they went to the more modern Saginaw steering ('65 or '66?) they went to the type of power steering we're all used to.

[ABN82MP]

the DMV might agree to an out of state cop doing the inspection and certification---maybe, possibly---probably not.

PM me the vin. I'll run it for you tonight at work if that'll help.

[shackwrrr]

I love the insane amount of ground clearance compared to the ford ttb

[mdill]

Off topic, but the pictures here seem show a the transfercase shifter brought over to the driver side ?, I don't think I have seen a pre 80 FSJ with a driverside TC shift lever. :confused:

[Tonka J200]

Off topic, but the pictures here seem show a the transfercase shifter brought over to the driver side ?, I don't think I have seen a pre 80 FSJ with a driverside TC shift lever. :confused:

That's yet another early J-series thing. All my '63's had the t-case shifter on the driver side. It may have been only the 230 powered rigs that had the driver side shifter.

My '67 has it on the passenger side, but the shifter is bent toward the driver, and my '69 had the shifter on the passenger side, but it was not bent.

[Brad Posadas]

I must be sick in the head for dropping $250 on the front clip of this thing
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/ruquik/photo7.jpg

But it has the goods so.....lol
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/ruquik/photo9.jpg


As far as the Gladiator goes I'm trying to buy it out right from the farmer

I guess you could say I've got it bad for big IFS jeeps
my DD
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/ruquik/JeepinbyAl/2011-03-19_16-22-19_146.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/ruquik/IMG-20110607-00128.jpg

[jaber]

Thanks for updating with pics. That front set up is wild. Dont think I would have seen that anywhere else but here. :thumbsup:

[recycledj10]

It is so sad to nice vehicle's like that to end up in the junkyard. I used to live in Maryland and most of the junkyards would only give 300 for a complete vehicle. I was so surprised to many vehicles rotting in somebody's backyard for years and you try and try to buy (save) them and the owners always want top dollar because its rare and just to find them in the junkyard.

[Jeepguy77]

Its so cool to hear an update on this. Hopefully you can buy it from the farmer, and start wrenching:thumbsup:

BTW that WK is sweet:cool:

[cajunKen]

Thanks for updating with pics. That front set up is wild. Dont think I would have seen that anywhere else but here. :thumbsup:

X2......I tried hitting the links on the earlier posts, but they weren't working. Nice to actually see a set up I've only read about. Thanks again:thumbsup:

[The PIG Smith]

I am very happy to see that someone save that very early FSJ....not to mention a IFS rig...Wow!

I would love to live someplace, where I could save a a bunch of rigs like this.
However the reality is, my time, funds and space are limited.
I will live my dreams vicariously through those that can.

[mackey84]

Wow! You have come across two IFS 4WD classic FSJs? A truck and a Wagoneer? Lucky man.

I am very happy to see that someone save that very early FSJ....not to mention a IFS rig...Wow!

I would love to live someplace, where I could save a a bunch of rigs like this.
However the reality is, my time, funds and space are limited.
I will live my dreams vicariously through those that can.
I hear ya. That's how I feel.

[austinaubinoe]

So is someone restoring this rig now, or is it still up for sale?

[tazjeeper]

they only pay $100 here for complete vehicle. car truck, suv it could be a 5ton its $100.oo

It is so sad to nice vehicle's like that to end up in the junkyard. I used to live in Maryland and most of the junkyards would only give 300 for a complete vehicle. I was so surprised to many vehicles rotting in somebody's backyard for years and you try and try to buy (save) them and the owners always want top dollar because its rare and just to find them in the junkyard.

[Brad Posadas]

Its so cool to hear an update on this. Hopefully you can buy it from the farmer, and start wrenching:thumbsup:

BTW that WK is sweet:cool:

Yeah, I figure I'll trade him a really clean 78 big block Dodge d-150 for it.

Thanks for the comments on the wk too

[Brad Posadas]

So is someone restoring this rig now, or is it still up for sale?

Which rig?