Blower on a 360?

[rhamby]

This is just a pipe dream, but I really am curious - anyone ever added a supercharger to an AMC motor or seen it done?
My daily driver a SC'd Bonneville, and I

[trssho]

I saw a turbo charger for sale on e bay once. I am sure you could throw a paxton on there and make it work. Though I think it would be a nightmare to make work.

[Yaz]

to find S/Cs for the amc v8s look up the amx and javalin...

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Would not be very practical in a FSJ. However it has been done a number of times. Here is a couple links to some FAST cars you will enjoy I am sure.
blown 1970 Javelin "Defender" (http://www.amx-perience.com/Defender.htm)
Then there is this guy he lives and breathes AMC cars like I do the FSJ's. Tony is a good guy helps out anyway he can. I have my AMC Blue engine enamal because of him. The real AMC Blue. I went CRAZY when my rebuilt 360 showed up wearing Chysler blue. REPAINT!!!! Here is Tony's web site
THE WORLD'S FASTEST AMC CAR (http://www.amx-perience.com/california_classic_amc.htm)
:D

[Snakeyes_Tx]

I was waiting for this topic to come up. Being I recently acquired me a Weiand 871 Blower a few weeks back, I have been contemplating how to bolt this monster onto my 360.

Here's whatcha gotta do! :D

There is a company called BDS (NOT THE SUSPENSION COMPANY!) that Supercharge Oldsmobile engines. Apparently, there isn't an intake for those to support a charger. What they do is machine a 1/4 or 3/8's inch thick plate that bolts onto a 4-barrel intake and has holes machined in to accept a blower on top of it. In essence, when I heard this, I thought "****, isn't that really choking out the air-flow?"

Solution...

I plan on machining a piece of 3/8" plate, and bolting it onto an Offenhauser Dual Quad intake manifold. That way I have twice the airflow as a standard single 4-barrel intake. Then cut the holes over the intake, bolt on the 871, and be god! :D

Right now, my current issue is stuff like the oil filler tube, the distributor, and some of the vaccuum junk on the backside of the motor. I'm pretty sure I'll figure this out too. I plan on cramming on two 500 4-barrels on it, or maybe two 1406's and jetting them WAY down.

Always wanted a blower peeking out of one of these hoods! ;)

OH, and keep in mind, you don't want to blow out that bottom end. This operation would best be done while you're getting your motor rebuilt. That way you can tell the shop to put in low compression, like say 7-7.8:1 compression pistons in there so you don't go through bottom ends like gasoline!

[ December 15, 2001: Message edited by: Snakeyes_Tx ]

[jeepbob]

At one time there was a Weiand manifold to fit the blowers to AMC motors and in the late 60's the was a guy running a Rebel (mid sized AMC car of the 60's)nitro funny car with a blown AMC 390 in NHRA.

[moneypit]

BDS (Blower Drive Service) (http://www.blowerdriveservice.com) can fab something and you ca bet your astric it'll work. They also have MPI and TBI kits that ill work on any motor you ca think of. Im working out the deatails for my '80 chero's 360 now. Itsgonna e a while before I have the $$. Look'em up or give them a call. Im sure they can help.

[Snakeyes_Tx]

Looks like we've sparked quite a bit of interest on the irc room tonight! smile.gif
www.blowerdriveservice.com (http://www.blowerdriveservice.com) for those who didn't see the link.

Blower Kits icon will list the AMC complete kit.

[sandmanb]

checked there link,this post has got me thinking,i have a paxton supercharger for a porsche 911 project that seams to be taking forever,now im thinking about plumbing and mods to put it on a 360 or 401 ,dam guys its not like i dont have already have anough fsj project kind of stuff rataling around in my brain

[sandmanb]

what kind of hoursepower would that be anyway?

[River Beast]

horsepwoer specs......'ENUF' :D

LMAO...

correct me if I'm wrong...blower and superchargers not my ball of wax....

Don't have to 'dial-in' blowers for a particular range that you want to be affected? Like all lo range, or just mig-range aor just hi end?

I have heard this is done simply with different diameter pulleys, but I still think you would want a wide range of power...

foregive my ignorance here guys...but this is good info and I'm not afraid to ask here.... ;)

[tnhunter]

I remember seeing a commercial on TV back in 1968 or 69 for the Javelin where the son had taken his father's Javelin and made a real street rod out of it. It even had a blower on it. Boy, though were the days of real cars, not these rice burner "jets" with rear spoilers bigger than the cars themselves. Yes, blowers are out there.

I can see it now, FSJ runs low 10's in quarter!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Hump]

Snake, it wasn't to long ago that I remember you were selling everything not bolted down because you were broke...and now you bought a supercharger!?! Must have been real rough on you. :D

Todd, unlike turbo chargers that are exhaust driven, and give peak boost at a certain rpm, superchargers are like you said belt driven. That means the only way you regulate boost pressure is by the diameter pulley you use like you said. But, you get that boost over the full range of the engine's rpm. You will not get as much boost out of a super as you would a turbo, because there is an obvious limit to the size of pulley.

I think that average super boost is like 8 or 10 psi (don't quote me on that), and turbos kind of the sky's the limit but you have to have the right equipment. Intercooler, the right fuel mixture, and the toughest inerds.

Why the intercooler you ask? On a turbo, or a supercharger not mounted directly to the intake (ie. paxton), the air is hot, and becomes more dense after passing through the intercooler (aftercooler). A more dense fuel mixture burns more efficiently and alot hotter. The problem with Weiand and BDS blowers (I call them hot rod blowers) that sit directly on the intake, is that the air comes in through the air filters, and is then rammed directly into the intake. So there is no real way to get that higher boost through intercooling.

Any kind of charging can be dangerous to the health of you engine. You MUST be certain of the correct fuel mixture, or you run the risk of running lean. (too much air, not enough fuel) That leads to detonation...that's pretty much self explainatory. :D My second volvo wagon was a turbo. The PO had it turned up to 10.5 psi (stock is like 4 or 5), and had it running through an intercooler. I decided to push the stock fuel injectors and cranked it up to 14 psi. Man what a blast! In third gear going 45 mph on dry pavement I could stomp on the gas and as soon as the engine hit 3000 rpm it would just smoke the tires. It's like 60-75 extra horsepower! To bad that the second time I did it there was lots of banging, and knocking and smoke, and no power. I never opened it up to see what I broke, but I ruined a perfectly good engine because I didn't use my head. :(

Sorry for the rambling, hope this helps.

[rhamby]

Wow... now I'm going from curious to interested. I just wasn't thinking - one should assume there would be the drag crowd, but my head is usually in the FSJ arena. The reason I would entertain this is for the lower-middle-end torque, not to make it a racer. I'm familiar with the Eaton's, but that would be a pretty high deck, so a Root's type would probably be a better fit in there.
thanks for all the info. I think I need to find a stunt block ....

[reddog]

While the pully size affects the output of any specific blower when your talking an 871 your talking ALOT of volume even if you don't drive the snot out of it. When your taking about a 360 with a stock cast crank and heads an 871 is going to give you more than enough boost and volume. Mucho overkill for most. A 671 is overkill.

Best thing about blowers for a 4wh is the low end you get which is quite a bit harder to achieve with a turbo setup.

With coolers you are just increasing the density of the air, thus packing in more O2 and doing nothing to increase the boost itself. I think that there are air to water intercoolers that bolt up under roots type (the type were talking about here - there are "screw" type also) blowers.

Kerry

[rhamby]

Moneypit - how much $$$ you talkin'?

[reddog]

$768.50 for a 671/871 AMC manifold. Look here > AMC manifold (http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/CGI/racesearch_ec_1166.cgi?product_number=8106A&description_id=1166)

Kerry

[Snakeyes_Tx]

Hump, I didn't buy the 871, I acquired it from a guy who had it sitting in a field on a plot of land he put his shop on... also was a complete Detroit Deisel and a Dana 80 10-lug rear with 14.5 inch rotors that came from an F-450. I have acquired this as well, but can't use it so I'm trying to trade it off for an 8-lug D80.

Blower needs to be seriously rebuilt, but it's a good base to start on.

BTW, BDS claims that their 871 set-ups go 12-15 pounds of boost.

[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Snakeyes_Tx ]

[Erix Jeep]

Funny this thread should start, as I was tossing this idea around not too long ago, as I know a guy who might have a 671 laying around. I think PAW had a manifold, it was about $275, bare manifold. Pully setups etc and all the other hardware was going to put it in the $1000 dollar range real fast not including blower. Pipe dream only. I can do a lot more fun stuff to my Jeep for that kinda money without risking my engine! Just my two Lincolns! :D

[Hump]

Kerry, you're right about intercoolers only making the air more dense and not doing anything for the boost itself. I guess I didn't clarify why I added that part. Without the cooler, you can't run the higher boost, which is controlled by either a waste gate on a turbo, or the pulley on a super. Try running a higher pressure without the cooler, and your risk of detonation grows exponentially.

All of my knowledge is from fuel injected engines though, so if what I have said can be controlled directly at the carb (or carbs) then just disregard all of it. :D

[Snakeyes_Tx]

Well, I think this would certainly make a good topic of the month! "Induction systems" What do you say??

Here's the deal...

Save the motor by...

Rebuilding the block full roller with only 7.5 or 8:1 forged pistons, high volume oil pump, and very VERY good cooling system.

Since some of us have to rebuild our motors now anyway, it's convenient smile.gif

Get a NEW and really GOOD flexplate or flywheel/clutch set.

[rhamby]

Heat is the other big question mark for me. I'm concerned about the other components around the intake.

[moneypit]

rhamby, just to be clear, Im doing a MPI conversion without a supercharger. But its still gonna set me back between $1500 and $2000 for the <UL TYPE=SQUARE>fuelpump
throttle body
intake
injectors x 8
ecu
TPS
O2 sensor/hardware
MAP sensor
fuel lines
fuel rails
etc. etc.[/list]But If you are going to install a supercharger (blower) you can run boost up in the 30# range with the right one and an intercooler ( yes they have em for blowers too) and a heavy duty cooling system and low compression and the right cam and....... it goes on and on.
But you can also run it slightly overdriven to make it more streetable and only run say 3-6 lbs of boost and get a "seat of the pants feelable gain" but you could get about the same performance with the right common mods.
Hope this isnt confusing.

[rhamby]

OK, on the MPI idea, how much (and how does one) control the mixture, etc.? I was I'm thinking on using the roots-type sc for the job which may make a carb. difficult to use. Has anyone seen this application on someone's web site or whatever? I'm finding a lot of info on 671's, etc., but that's probably not the route I want to take. 5-6#'s is probably more than enough to kickstart the torque and fill in the gaps after gear changes. Could be wrong.