What ever happened to warn hubs?

[JeepsAndGuns]

What ever happened to warn lock-o-matic locking hubs? I have a set of them on my '60 CJ-6 and love them. They look vintage and might even be the ones that came on the Jeep when new. It even has a sticker on the dash for them. I wish warn still made these, I would love to have a set on my cherokee and I would even do a front hub conversion on my YJ if I could get a set of them. Why did warn stop making these hubs? Was there a bad flaw in their design? The ones om my CJ work great and have worked great since who knows how long.
For those of you who dont know what warn lock-o-matic hub are, I will tell you. They function just like normal lockouts do. But what makes them special is that if you were ever in a situation where you only needed 4wd for just a little bit, say you slid off in a ditch and/or one wheel is under deep muds and you cant get to it. All you have to do is just shift into 4wd and the hubs will lock in automaticly and you can get unstuck. Now the dial will still be on unlocked, so if you need to do extended 4wheeling you will want to turn the dial to "lock"
Does anyone know about the fate of these hubs?

[robselina]

seen them on older rigs (a 65 wagoneer) but as far as I know they're gone nowadays. They make the premium locking hubs still of course, but that's about it.

Thanks for the lesson on their operation though, I figured they were just regular old hubs smile.gif

[nxcj]

They worked like a ratchet. When you put the t-case in 4, the drive of the axle would "catch" like a ratchet and pull you through the immediate danger. Resultantly though, they do not work in reverse (like spinning a ratchet backward).

Likely demise may be uneducated users complaining that they didn't work well due to not understanding the ratchet action (forward only).

[JeepsAndGuns]

I dont know about that, I am pretty shure that it works in reverse too. But it has been like over 3 years since I have driven it. so I might be mistaken. But I dont ever remember them not working unlocked.

[Tad]

Been a while since I saw them, was a mid 70's Chero a local fellow had here. He still had the instructions and IIRC there was something about reverse and unlocking them, not sure what the deal was, been too long now.

[g503]

in auto mode it would just rachet in reverse

[brad_fsj10]

I owned a 74 IHC 3/4 ton pickup several years ago with auto-hubs. A lot of the pickups and Scouts came with them. I loved 'em. Same front axle as on my current pickup, D44 .... Hmmm, it might be worth a try but I'm pretty sure the spindle short shaft is quite a bit longer for these.

The hubs and the rebuild kits come up on the classifieds at the binderbullitin site. I see them on trucks at the boneyards sometimes too though I haven't seen any IHC's at the local yards.

[ March 12, 2004, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: brad_fsj10 ]

[J10Mike]

i had those hubs on my 67 j2000. they only worked when going forward.

[zomotropin]

This might be interesting to some of you.
Lock-o-matic conversion (http://www.geocities.com/damonfg/lockomatic.html) smile.gif

[brad_fsj10]

Originally posted by zomotropin:
[QB]This might be interesting to some of you. QB]I thought it could be done, now I see that it has. I will have to look for a good pair now. Cool. Thanks Zomotropin.

[jode]

What do they look like? Are they the ones that look like you need a gigantic flathead screwdriver to turn them and that have a knurled grip around the circumference? If so, I have a set I am looking to get rid of.
Email me.

[brad_fsj10]

Originally posted by zomotropin:
This might be interesting to some of you.
Lock-o-matic conversion (http://www.geocities.com/damonfg/lockomatic.html) smile.gif Nope... See the link in this or Zom's post under Lock-o-matic conversion. They specifically say in the owner's manual instruction NOT to use any tools to turn the selectors.

[ March 12, 2004, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: brad_fsj10 ]

[jode]

Ohhhh...those ones...I know where there are like 4 pairs of them in a junkyard. The owner is a moron though and I hate dealing with them. He said (last time I was there) he wanted like $80 a pair for them :eek:

Bunch of jerks out there too... :(

What do you think those IH hubs are worth?

[g503]

well considering the cost of a new pair from most companies that is a fair price , if some one wants them to convert you could sell em for more

[brad_fsj10]

Up in corn country (Iowa) where I owned my IHC, they wanted between $40 and $75 for 'em so your junkyard man isn't totally out there. Of course in Iowa there are 10 IH's in most every junkyard, unlike here in NC where I've only seen one Scout.

BUT for $80 I'd want to be dog-gone sure if one or both weren't any good he'd give you another, and even another till you found a good set.

[nxcj]

The Scout hubs being refered to will NOT work with your stock Jeep 1/2 ton outers. Not sure if anyone was contemplating or not...just making sure.

They are for the Scout Dana 44 which used outers similar to a Dana 30 CJ axle, and therefor these are external hubs.

FSJ's use internal hubs common to all standard 1/2 & 3/4 ton stuff.

FYI: I sold a set of those Scout hubs on Ebay three years ago for $67 and thought it was Christmas. :D

[JeepsAndGuns]

Humm, I always thought they worked in reverse. mabey I was just getting enough traction with my back wheels to think it was working. I guess not.
I think it would be really cool if warn would bring that hub back. You would think that these days they could make it for use with internal spline hubs. I sill kinda want to know why they stoped making them.

[g503]

well alot of people grenaded them by launching onto pavement in 4 wheel .plus they clicked sometimes and it was very annoying , plus the great idea of a central front axle disconnect ,no hubs needed , some great idea,!!,you remeber the ad with the cj in the stream bed,up to the axles , the tag line was something like "getting out with getting out"

[oldyellowwagoneer]

Originally posted by nxcj:
They worked like a ratchet. When you put the t-case in 4, the drive of the axle would "catch" like a ratchet and pull you through the immediate danger. Resultantly though, they do not work in reverse (like spinning a ratchet backward).

Likely demise may be uneducated users complaining that they didn't work well due to not understanding the ratchet action (forward only).I would have to wonder how come they dont since they're the same part on both sides. the left axle is turning counterclockwise and the right axle is turning clock wise when going foreward meaning the hubs work in either direction. Dennis

[JeepsAndGuns]

Do you think there might have been diffrent models? Mabey one that only worked going forward and another model that worked both ways?
Man, I wish my CJ wasnt 6 hours away from me or I would go check it out for shure.

[g503]

if you look at the link in a previos post you see the roller clutch and it only engages when the axle is spinning and as far as right side left side the clutch it
still engages in a forward motion ,transfer just the roller clutch and it still faces same way left or right

[nxcj]

Originally posted by oldyellowwagoneer:
I would have to wonder how come they dont since they're the same part on both sides. the left axle is turning counterclockwise and the right axle is turning clock wise when going foreward meaning the hubs work in either direction. Dennis[/QB]YEP! I think I am wrong. Pretty obvious when you consider the clutch. Had it expalined to me and took it as gospel..........blah, blah blah....

[JeepsAndGuns]

I wish warn would start making them agan. I thought about emailing them but I seriously doubt I would get a reply. Mabey if I call?

[Rod2]

I know that this is a 4yr. old thread, but I'm currently looking for a Lock-o-Matic hub to replace one that I broke a couple weeks ago after 35 yrs. of good service.

And, yes, they do work in reverse. The rollers are held by springs away from oval grooves in the outer hub piece that allows the wheel to spin freely when no torque is applied from the axle. As soon as the axle is engaged, the corresponding depressions in the inner piece (splined to the axle) forces the rollers into the ovals creating a bind that turns the outer hub, wheel, and tire; hence, traction.

And because the depressions are oval shaped, they work either forward or reverse. Simple?

[mathman]

The automatic feature does not work in reverse. Warn is very specific in that there is a "left" hub and "right" hub. Taken directly from the Warn assembly instructions:

"NOTE: After assembly, Automatic Hubs should be stamped "Right" or "Left" on flange of aluminum clutch body just below the red dot."

and

"Be sure you get the right hub on the right wheel, as they are not interchangeable."

and

"To determine whether the hub should be placed on the left or right wheel, place your finger or an axle shaft spline in the hub spline, holding it in your left hand. Turn the hub with your right hand. If it free-wheels to the right, it is for the right wheel. If it free-wheels to the left, it is for the left wheel."

Warn even refers to a 'ratchet' in two places:

"Brush a layer of grease inside the hub and around the ratchet."
"Install the ratchet into the body. Be sure none of the pins drop out while doing this."

[Rod2]

As soon as I get mine fixed, I'll give it a real world test. I've had them on 2 different trucks, and I never had trouble nor failure backing up.

[bowtieman55]

Rod,
how about next weekend? I don't think I've got anything planned:rolleyes:

[JeepsAndGuns]

I still want a set of the internal spline lock-o-matics!

[mathman]

I still want a set of the internal spline lock-o-matics!

Only have a pair of the external style for the 10-spline shafts, and they don't work in reverse....

[KaiserMan]

I still want a set of the internal spline lock-o-matics!

There where some NOS internal spline Lock-Omatics for Jeeps on ebay the other day. They pop up once and a while and are fairly cheap.

[JeepsAndGuns]

There where some NOS internal spline Lock-Omatics for Jeeps on ebay the other day. They pop up once and a while and are fairly cheap.

Dang, I just searched and could not find them. What terms did you search? I tried 'warn lock o matic', then just 'warn hubs" and went trough them all. Didnt see them. I search every now and then, but have never been able to find a set of the internal style lock o matics on ebay. I find plenty of the external style.

I never even knew they made them in internal style untill I saw a set on a 60's K5 blazer. Ever since then, I have been wanting a set.

[Rod2]

Ok! I don't know which Lock-o-Matic you've had experience with nor which manual said they are right and left specific, but mine definitely work in both directions. And no, they were't locked. I was told by an old-timer early on never to lock them, and I haven't since. The avatar is my second J-truck, both with Lock-o-Matics, and each one backed me out of stuck situations more than once over the last 28 years.

[jdaniel83]

My dad has a '62 CJ-5 and a '70 Wagoneer and they both have the Lock-o-Matic hubs and I can say that on those two particular vehicles they do work in reverse, but only for a brief period of time. Pretty much only when needing to back out of something but they stop working shortly after shifting back into a forward gear. Then we'd have to manually lock the hubs to have full-time 4wd.

[mathman]

Ok! I don't know which Lock-o-Matic you've had experience with nor which manual said they are right and left specific,

Warn hubs. And the manual is also Warn, a Service and Repair Manual - not a copy but an original.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I'm with the others, the ones that are on my 60 CJ6 worked in reverse.
I dont know why they did, if they are not supposed to?

[Rod2]

Sorry, mathman. When I re-read my post, I sounded a little harsh. I didn't mean to; I just meant to be emphatic about how mine work.

jdaniel, I backed out of a wet cornfield one time for about 75 yds. I turned the front wheels hard right, but the truck did not turn. When I got out to see why, the front had left ridges in the mud that looked like giant bolt threads. I guessed that I had screwed myself out of the field by the traction of the front wheels. I had no trouble disengaging the front axle and it never let me down.

By the way, today I recovered 2 Lock-o-Matic hubs from Jake's junkyard near Burnsville, NC. I'll be 4wheelin' again soon.

[mathman]

Sorry, mathman. When I re-read my post, I sounded a little harsh. I didn't mean to; I just meant to be emphatic about how mine work.

No biggie. Be better if the actual model numbers of the hubs were added to the discussion as that's probably where the differences come from. Not sure where in the documentation I found it but the set of hubs I have the manual on I think are models WA-1 (and also the manual locking hubs, WL-2 I think). I have had the text of the Warn Service and Repair Manual online (along with some pictures of the manual hub on my 1950) at:

http://www.jeep-trucks.com/hubs/warn/

[Rod2]

David, the link to the Warn site cleared up a bunch. My Lock-o-Matics do not match the discussion on their site. I don't know if they are older or newer, but they don't go together as declared on that site.

I have M3Ds on each side of my truck, and I just picked up another M3D and an M3B off a '72 Jtruck.

Maybe the difference in model numbers has created the controversy over whether some are directional and some are not.

Either way, when I contacted Warn about replacement parts, they emphatically told me they were obsolete, and they had no intention to produce any more of them nor repair pieces.

[mathman]

David, the link to the Warn site cleared up a bunch. My Lock-o-Matics do not match the discussion on their site. I don't know if they are older or newer, but they don't go together as declared on that site.

That's my site. :) Almost all of the information on it pertains to my 1950 and its rebuilding.

I have M3Ds on each side of my truck, and I just picked up another M3D and an M3B off a '72 Jtruck.

Maybe the difference in model numbers has created the controversy over whether some are directional and some are not.

Pretty safe bet. The cap on the WA-1 hubs is the same as on the manual locking versions, it's just the body that differs. The service manual is from the late 50s or early 60s.

Either way, when I contacted Warn about replacement parts, they emphatically told me they were obsolete, and they had no intention to produce any more of them nor repair pieces.

Ran into that rebuilding the manual hubs on the 1950 - took a while to find a decent used set only to find out mine are apparently some of the earliest made of that version. Such fun.

[Rod2]

I have installed the right hub on the left wheel, jacked it up and gave it a spin--smoothe and free. And when I turned the drive shaft (through an open diff), the tire spun forward, so I reversed the shaft direction and the tire spun backward.

I can only vouch for my equipment, but the test proves that my hubs are not direction specific nor are they side specific.

If any one is interested in these convenient items, be sure to find the M3 models.

[mathman]

If any one is interested in these convenient items, be sure to find the M3 models.

Which raises a questions I've had for a while - does anyone know of a site that has a listing of all of the various Warn hub model numbers? I've been collecting hubs (slowly) for a few years to add more hubs to my hub page and always have wondered how many different models warn made.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I dont know how many diffrent models there are. But here is a picture of the internal style, that I would like to find a set of. I saw these on a (I think 60's model) K5 blazer. with a D44 front.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/JeepsAndGuns/DSC00408.jpg

[JeepBountyHunter]

I have a set here somewhere...;)

[JeepBountyHunter]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/JeepBountyHunter/warnlockomatic.jpg

I cleaned them lightly in kerosene, missing one roller pin, but it's all there. These appear to have a larger mounting bolt on them?
Sent you a email. :)
Aaron

[mic63]

Another view of the same model in the photo above.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r262/oldiron77/1963%20Wagoneer/P1010011.jpg

[Rod2]

JeepsAndGuns: Your picture looks like it would be the WA-1 hub in mathman's Warn manual link.

mic63: Your pics resemble the M3 models that I have. I don't know if they are inter-changeable.

[bufurd]

:drivin: Nice subject, got a set on 73 J-truck, been wheelin and plowing snow for 30 years. half the time never lock the hubs, love them. Work both ways for sure.