diesels... need some opinions..

[Ohhseven]

Ok, I'm having diesel thoughts again.. Problem is I don't know much about diesel engine options, particularly what would fit into an FSJ nicely, and what will mate up nicely to FSJ tranny options.

Here's what I'm looking for:
Something that is relatively easy to maintain.
Something that won't require major reconstruction of the frame to support the weight/torque.
Something that will give me as a minimum the same sort of power as the 360 gives. - I'm not interested in doing drags with the Jeep, my goal is a good truck for hauling a large trailer, and/or long-box loaded down plus a trailer behind. (and no I don't want duallies 'cause I want to play in the mud too...)
Can't think of much else... I'd like to be able to use the T18, and a D20. (love to get the PTO attachment as well!!!)

So what do ya all think???

BTW this is going to be my summer project. Currently I've got an '80 Cherokee Laredo, WT with a recently rebuild 360 (approx 8,000 miles on it) the body isn't bad, the rust had been chopped off and new body welded on.. although the work ain't pretty, but bond was used to make it look good!
At first I've been thinking of just finding a longbox frame and moving over the drive-train from my Cherokee, but now I'm thinking I want to go with a diesel... Then I can get rid of my XJ ('90) and use the FSJ as my main form of transport... (I figure selling the XJ should pay for the diesel installation!!!) Decisions decisions...

Mick.

[bigjeepguy]

I have decided to try the 3.9 cummins, as my dad brought home all the major components to build one, and as all the other diesels are 5.9's he may let me put it in my jeep, and as a cummins, it is a durable long lasting, and very torquey motor, it is rated at 130 hp, and 350 lb ft of torque, but I am sure you could get the same kind of horsepower as a stock 360 puts out, and it fits, and with 4.10 gears and no over drive you could still go about 60 mph. You could check into finding a reman engine, as a new 3.9 costs around 6,000 dollars, but it would be pretty good for towing, as all the torque comes on by 1600 rpm.

[This message has been edited by bigjeepguy (edited February 15, 2001).]

[Ohhseven]

Well 350 lb ft of torque ain't to shabby.. Like I said I'm not interested in taking this to the drags.. Of course a little more hp never hurts right? Is that motor turbo-charged? If not any idea what the performance would be with a turbo-charger installed?
Mick.

[Shake N Bake]

Ok first things first, no diesel engine is just going to bolt up nice and neat into a FSJ.

Secondly, easy to maintain is a relative term. Diesels are engines of a COMPLETELY different nature. They are built to much finer tollerances and because of that can be a bit of a pain to work on.

My next diesel swap (whenever my current 360 finally bites it) is going to be probably the EASIEST FSJ diesel conversion out there. But I have an auto & a QT... Your life might not be as simple. The swap I'll be doing is a Olds 350 diesel (DX block). (Say what you will, maintained properly they were a good engine) The process in an auto is pretty **** simple. (BOP TH400, tailshaft swapping, lots of little details...)

Don't forget to get highway speeds out of your truck w/ a diesel, you're going to have to regear to higher gears (numerically lower) or just put on bigger tires http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif



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Andy
Calgary Alberta Canada (Eh!)
closest thing to a website I've got (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1239185&Auth=false)
79 Wagoneer LTD "Shake N Bake"
360/Th400/QT 4" SuperLift, MSD 6 OffRoad, Big O XT CT 31x10x15s

[jeepbob]

Andy you are right on the 5.7 gen 2's being a good motor. They had plenty of power and were fuel effiecent. I had an Olds 98 Regency with the 5.7 and got 28 to 30 mpg on the highway. Just be sure to run the a/c comp belt as well as the power steering pump belt to run the alt and water pump as most problems with motor was due to overheating. The reason for the overheating was that people would cut the a/c comp belt and the power steering belt was too small to carry the load. It would burn up in a very short time. Good luck on finding one though, they are getting kinda scarce.

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 tracloc/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/taurus ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[Ohhseven]

I don't imagine it's going to be a walk in the park, and I'll certainly be doing some serious research into before I make my final decision.
I'd stick with the 360 if I could get it to not be such a gas-guzzler. I do too much travelling to be able to afford running it as my main vehicle.
With regards to my wanting something easy to maintain - what I'm really thinking about is that I'd heard of some guys that stuck a diesel in but everything was such a tight squeeze that it became a nightmare to do anything on it.
Anyway, I'll keep y'all posted on what I come up with...

Mick.

[Shake N Bake]

Ahhh ok!

Well, looking at the big picture, I'd say the Olds 350 is the way you want to look. Its standard small block size, (and a Buick/Olds/Pontiac bolt pattern so its REALLY easy to get adapters etc)
http://members.tripod.com/~A350Diesel/menu.html <=- one of the online olds 5.7 resources.

Just make sure you spend the time to rebuild a good engine before you put it in.



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Andy
Calgary Alberta Canada (Eh!)
closest thing to a website I've got (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1239185&Auth=false)
79 Wagoneer LTD "Shake N Bake"
360/Th400/QT 4" SuperLift, MSD 6 OffRoad, Big O XT CT 31x10x15s

[CheapJeep]

So heres another idea:
I've been toying with this one on and off for
the last few years. . . .
a nissan sd33 turbo diesel (factory option in 1980 scouts only, also used in nissan small box trucks) i had a scout with one for a while, so i know how it runs - 101hp (small) 20 mpg loaded,unloaded, towing, etc with a 4 speed. they can be found with a torqueflyte 727 behind them w/ a special case. (different mounting pattern) so from all i've read, you SHOULD be able to swap tailshafts? and mount to original tcase. the scouts had a different front axle drop (i can't remember which side) than the later jeeps, but the same as the pre 79's?? in that case, you could swap an entire engine, t-18? tranny, and dana 300 xcase into your jeep, just make mounts for everything. i'm just not sure if it would really be enough for a wag loaded down, not really enough power even with the turbo. but if you don't tow much, i think that this would be a fairly easy engine tranny only swap.
Scott

[This message has been edited by CheapJeep (edited February 18, 2001).]

[RoundHouse]

I would check into the Isuzu 4 cly in all the box/delivery trucks.

Use the Isuzu trans and a divorced t-case.

I also am interested in the diesel swap, found a decent 86Wag for $1000 and it still runs.

Neither of the GM engines have a reputation for quality and long life but they are the cheapest.

ANd I would really be afraid to install the converted gas engine.

Is there one still running?

I bought several oldsmobiles with a blown diesel and swapped in a gas and sold it for a profit.

Just having that engine chopped the value 50% even if it still ran.

My dad had a 6.2 NA in a 83 blazer and it had about 180K on it when he ran it hot and cracked a head, but I can tell you that NO auto tranny will live long behind a diesel.

My dad put 4 in his blazer about 1 a year.

Theres a reason all the 18-wheelers have manuals.

[FSJman]

the new gmc duramax is supposed to be the best yet, i think its cheaper the the power stroke and the cummns. It also puts out more tourqe and horsepower

check out
http://www.gmc.com/sierra/duramax.html

and
http://www.johnhanley.com/duramax_diesel.htm

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FSJman
amc 360 bored 60 over
edlebrock 4bbl 650 s/p carb
3 inch body lift
coustom bumpers
tow package
31/10.50 BFG AT

[This message has been edited by FSJman (edited February 20, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by FSJman (edited February 20, 2001).]

[Shake N Bake]

Ok, just had to comment on roundhouse's message... the Olds 5.7 diesel ISN'T A CONVERTED GAS ENGINE! It shares some parts yes! But the block and heads are completely different. (tho its still a 350) Quite a few of those engines have gone over 400,000miles they got a bad rep due to poor knowledge by the original owners (Or poor instructions to owners by GM) Tho the late 70s engines did suffer design problems (w/ the main bearing caps) they fixed that in 1980. But by then the damage had been done (to the engines reputation)

Problems w/ the big Isuzu 4cyl is again weight... Would require beefier front springs and (possibly) frame strengthening. (Dont have the specs handy)



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Andy
Calgary Alberta Canada (Eh!)
closest thing to a website I've got (http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1239185&Auth=false)
79 Wagoneer LTD "Shake N Bake"
360/Th400/QT 4" SuperLift, MSD 6 OffRoad, Big O XT CT 31x10x15s

[jeepbob]

While the numbers on the Duramax look good it is still an Isuzu engine and is HUGE. Also all the injector lines are run through seperate (4) holes in the top of the valve cover(can you say "oil leaker"). It is a new motor so reliability is an issue. Despite the Generals claim that Isuzus have the best warrenety record in the biz, I have my doubts as my personal experiance with Isuzus has not been the best. I guess if your warrentey is short enough you don't have any problems.
BTW, a lot of Med Duty diesels have automatics and more are being sold all the time. The Allison 5 and 6 speed autos are found behind 300 to 400 hp engines and are much more dependable than a clutch especially with a lot of the nondrivers found driving delivery, trash, and even fire trucks. The good thing about the Duramax is that the General decided to put the Allison behind it.

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 tracloc/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/taurus ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[Snakeyes_Tx]

The biggest problem with the olds 350 diesel .. an engine that I was seriously considering for a long time because I had a 1980 Cadillac Seville with the 350 Diesel in it as a donor car was the heads... the **** head bolts were the same ones as used in stock gas-350's... they were too weak to put up with all the compression of the diesel running counterpart. Of course this led to the 350D's biggest problem... blowing head gaskets all the time.. I know a guy who's had to change head-gaskets and head bolts every 6 months... keeps the motor only because of its fuel economy...

The more I think about it.. the more I still wish I took it... just think off all the other stuff...

Motor mounts, fuel system... brake system... ignition system... all that stuff... all them nickel and dime things that add up to a grand or two!

Just food for thought..

I'd personally like to stick a Cummins Turbo I-6 Diesel in my rig... just not in the pocketbook

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Snakeyes_Tx
86 J-20 "The Rusty Dinosaur"
360/727/208/44/60 <- 2nd of all of them.
"If you don't know what the numbers mean, you don't need to be here!"

[jeepbob]

The biggest cause of head gasket failure on the 350D was the owners cutting the a/c comp belt and the p/s pump belt being to small to carry the load of running the water pump, alt, fan, and hydroboost p/s p/b pump. Even the gas 350 suffered failures of the head gasket due to this problem which created severe overheating. Also the early 80 rigs were the gen 1 motors which did have problems the late 80 gen 2's did not.

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 tracloc/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/taurus ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[Shake N Bake]

Most of the guys running the olds diesels now mostly run ARP bolts in the heads too... They help a great deal I'm told... I've got a set here... Just need an engine to put them into http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Ohhseven]

I think I'm going to seriously look at putting a Cummins 5.9 in. I got good information from another guy who used a 5.9 in an M715 and had no problems making it fit - he removed the fan from the engine and put pusher fans on the rad. (2 fans which he figured was overkill afterwards...)
I think the 5.9 would probably be the best option - not the cheapest, but should give the best performance, and reliability in the end. - and that's worth the extra bucks to me.
I've got one other question with regards to putting a diesel in an FSJ: Are M715/725 frames built the same as J series trucks or are they stronger? - The guy I know that did this didn't bother strengthening the frame (M715) and hasn't had any problems.

Mick.

[jeepbob]

Well, they put them in new Dodges....

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 tracloc/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/taurus ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud