doesn't blink

[Maynard]

I just notice the other night, when I have my headlights on, my blinkers won't blink, they wont even come on. they work fine during the day. I havent had time to look at it yet, also the headlights now only work when they are on brights, I know it is the dimmer switch but could this affect the blinkers? Thanks

[Michael F]

Do the parking lights work and do they go out when you use the turn signals? Do the turn signal lights in the dash stay on? I would check the ground beside the drivers side headlight behind the grill or the ground will be behind the headlight on the fenderwell beside the radiator. The way they did the wiring a bad ground will do funny things! and not what you think!

------------------
81 Cherokee Laredo WT
53,000 orig. miles
360/727/208/3.31/31x10.5AT
79 Cherokee Chief WT (snow plow)
360/400/QTw/LR/31x10.5
My family has 7 FSJ's!!!

[Maynard]

The parking lights doesnt go out, and the blinkers wont even come on in the dash, it is very peculiar. I know that ground problems can cause very weird problems. Thanks

[reddog]

If your dimmer switch is also the turn indicator, then its quite possible the turn indicator/ dimmer switch has gone south - but do like Mike says - check those grounds first.

[Treadted2]

Mine does the same thing, except mine just blink real slow when my lights are on. The only they won't blink is if I am running my AC and trying to use the turning signal. My voltage meter also goes way negative when my headlights are on unless I am moving/ on the gas. Could this be from a bad ground somewhere? Please please please help!! I have posted about this twice and no one ever says anything. IT is the thing that most annoys me about my jeep.

Thanks

Ted

------------------
84' Grand Wagoneer "Dover"
-AMC 360
-Stock axles(AMC20 & Dana44), tranny & transfer case(NP229)
-MSD TFI upgrade
-K&N Air filter
-Rough Country 3" lift
-Heckelthorne Hydro shocks
-Yokohama Prodigy AT 31X10.5 tires
-American Racing 15X8 Chrome Nugget wheels
-blue fuzzy dice!!

*fuel injection and an MSD 6A ignition will soon be added. Hello 16-17 mpg!!

[Langdon]

I have a similar prob, just haven't had time to mess with it yet. When my lights are off, instrument cluster is OK-blinkers, hazards, gauges function. When lights are on: oil, gas, and temp gauges die, dash blinker lites switch, and hi-beam indicator blinks. I'm hoping it's just a bad ground too, will let you know when I can look at it.

------------------
Langdon
'79 Cherokee (PO)S
360 2bbl, TH400, Q-Trac
"My heart's in the Jeep, but my Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley is in debt!"

[reddog]

Are the headlights dim all the time or when the alt output is low?? There may be high resistance in the headlight circuit that is overcome when the alternator is spinning faster than it does at idle. Problem is when idling in gear the alternator output is lowest and the lights draw the highest amps except for maybe the heater/AC fans.

Also the standard alt is pretty low output (42 amps) although I would think that alot came with higher output alts but if yours didn't get an alt that is high output (78 or higher).
I assume that you guys have the dual belts running the alt. and you have checked that they are tight. If the engine is at an above idle RPM then the percentage of loss due to slipping belts is overcome by the higher output of the alt.

Take a voltmeter and check the voltage at the battery under both no-load (all electrical things off) and high load (lights and fan on), it should be between about 13.5 and 14.2 volts - but may be a little lower with a high electrical load at idle, but not below about 12.9.

Check the connections that go the the alternator and make sure they are clean and tight. Also check the condition of the wire and the connection between the wire and the connector itself.

If the grounds have been checked (make sure the body to engine ground - by drivers motor mount? - and the headlight ground - LH front of frame, according to the 84 diagram are clean and tight) and ok then the first thing I would suspect would be a short in the headlight circuit if the low output condition is ONLY with the headlights and not the fans and other accesories on. If the low output condition is with any high load on (not just the headlights) the I would think that the alt. is not putting out enough.

Unplug the headlights and see if the current draw is still high at idle. That would mean likely there is either a short in the headlight or possible the parking light circuit.

Sorry for the rambling but that should give you something to start with if you have not checked them out already.

Hope this covers everyone here although Langdon yours sound like a short somewhere but I don't know how similar the 79 Chero is to the later Wags.

Let us know how things go...

Kerry

[Treadted2]

Hey thanks for the thorough description. Mine does only occur when the headlights are on... not anything else. One note, there really isn't that much of a draw if I have my headlights on and I am either in park or neutral... BUT when I put it in to Reverse or Drive and I am idling, more amps are drawn and the meter goes negative unless I give it some gas(the alternator turns faster). Does that tell you anything?

How do I check the headlight circuitry?? I will try your suggestion of unplugging the headlights. Do you just do that at the back of the headlights? Where they plug in?

Thanks for your help

Ted

------------------
84' Grand Wagoneer "Dover"
-AMC 360
-Stock axles(AMC20 & Dana44), tranny & transfer case(NP229)
-MSD TFI upgrade
-K&N Air filter
-Rough Country 3" lift
-Heckelthorne Hydro shocks
-Yokohama Prodigy AT 31X10.5 tires
-American Racing 15X8 Chrome Nugget wheels
-blue fuzzy dice!!

*fuel injection and an MSD 6A ignition will soon be added. Hello 16-17 mpg!!

[andy d]

could just be a failing flasher unit. easiest way to test that out is to swap em. the blinker flash and the 4-way are the same parts. if it is a flasher theyre about 2$

------------------
'88 gwag,pure stock

[reddog]

Hey Ted,

Your not drawing any more amps while in gear, just putting out less due to lower RPM like you say. Get a multimeter ( I just got a decent little digital meter at Home Depot for about $20 ) and check the voltage like I said in the previous post. If your voltage is lower than about 13.5 volts (at idle) than your output is too low. My 87 runs 14+ volts with interior lights on, fan on high, headlights on, emergency flashers on - and this is at idle.

That 12.9 figure I said in my previous post is really too low. It should be no lower than 13.6 or so, and it really should be 14+ volts - I don't know what the heck I was thinking (maybe I wasn't !! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif ).

The first things I would check would be the grounds and the connection(s) on the alternator. Also check the wires that go to the alternator for heat damage and the condition of the connections between the wire and connector.

If I remember correctly you have recently replaced your alternator? Check those belts.

If the lights are only dim at idle then it sounds like the problem is too little output at idle as the gauge indicates. Does the voltage drop at idle (dramatically) when you have the headlights off but have as many other electrical items on (heater on high, emergency flashers, interior lights, radio loud)as possible. If it does then the problem is not with the headlights, but with low output from the alt.

[This message has been edited by reddog (edited November 18, 2000).]

[Treadted2]

Hey Reddog,

Just did a thorough check on everything with what we have been talking about. I cleaned up the grounds for the headlights, checked all of the wires into the alternator, retightened the belts, and uhhh... maybe some other stuff. No luck. Still drains the battery. I measure the voltage at the battery and here is the low down.

Idle with nothing on: 12.9V
Idle with headlights
and blinkers: 12.1V

That's not good. Also, another thing I noticed. When I start my car, the alternator won't charge until I rev the engine. It sits right around zero or slightly under and when I rev it it jumps up and starts charging. What is the dealio? This is the second freaking alternator I have put in.

I also disconected my fog lights, and when I put everything back together, the fog lights won't turn on. Gettin' pretty fed up with this. I am thinking that I will just take it to a mechanic. I am a bit hesitant to take it to someone because it is a electrical problem. Do most mechanics know about this kind of stuff?

Thanks for your help

Ted

------------------
84' Grand Wagoneer "Dover"
-AMC 360
-Stock axles(AMC20 & Dana44), tranny & transfer case(NP229)
-MSD TFI upgrade
-K&N Air filter
-Rough Country 3" lift
-Heckelthorne Hydro shocks
-Yokohama Prodigy AT 31X10.5 tires
-American Racing 15X8 Chrome Nugget wheels
-blue fuzzy dice!!

*fuel injection and an MSD 6A ignition will soon be added. Hello 16-17 mpg!!

[okidoc]

Instead of cheapo autozone ground cables I recommend using heavy duty welding cable(arc welding). I used it in a trunk mount battery set up on a Bigblock 68 Charger and ever since then have trusted nothing but. The ends are regular copper tips that you can solder on with some good solder and a blow torch. One draw back though you'll have to get marine style terminals for the battery or use the expensive high end stereo battery terminals. A bad ground can have many strange effects.

------------------
87 GW spankin' new 360
??everything else.
31x10.50 stock rims and height. NO RUB

[Maynard]

I fixed my problem. Yesterday I pulled off my dimmer switch and found that the wires where melted together, so I cut them off and wired it back up and now I have both high and low beams and blinkers. I had no idea that the blinkers would've been affected by the dimmer switch, electricity and I don't get along. Any way, thanks for all the info, appreciate it.

[Treadted2]

Hey Maynard,

where is this dimmer switch. I am getting the same problem you had sort of... Might as well check this out. Thanks

Ted

------------------
84' Grand Wagoneer "Dover"
-AMC 360
-Stock axles(AMC20 & Dana44), tranny & transfer case(NP229)
-MSD TFI upgrade
-K&N Air filter
-Rough Country 3" lift
-Heckelthorne Hydro shocks
-Yokohama Prodigy AT 31X10.5 tires
-American Racing 15X8 Chrome Nugget wheels
-blue fuzzy dice!!

*fuel injection and an MSD 6A ignition will soon be added. Hello 16-17 mpg!!

[Maynard]

Treadted, on mine it is on the floor underneith the e-brake, that is on a '76, what year is yours? I think the GW have them on the dash.

Maynard

[reddog]

Sorry for not following your post Ted. What is the voltage with the RPMs about 1500 or so? If your only getting 12.9 at idle the problem is with the charging system, not the headlights. Are you letting the Jeep run for 5 minutes or so before checking the voltage to let the battery recharge after starting?

How old is your battery? Does the motor turn over stong? If not the battery may be shorted or have a dead cell. You can take it to any decent auto electrical place and they will test it.
After replacing the alt twice I think a problem there is unlikely. Also make sure of those grounds including that the alternator is grounded well to the motor via the mounts.
If the battery is ok then I would GUESS that it may be the fusable link. Note that this is a guess. It just sounds like there is resistance in the system/wiring. I think that the fusable link is between the starter relay and the red wire that is part of the two wire connector that plugs into the alternator - not the single red wire that goes on the post of the alt. I'm getting the info from the 84 wiring diagram - I have not replaced the link before myself.
Note that this info about the link is something to check - I'm not sure about it (at all).

The fog lights should not come on (the stock setup) until the high beams are on.

As for mechanics if you take it to someone to check I would recommend that you try to find a shop that specializes in auto electrical. I use a shop that is basically a battery/alternator shop, but I have never used them for more that the basics. I am cynical when it comes to mechanics - its hard (re: expensive) to find one to trust. Electrical shops can be expensive to trouble shoot your problem so go armed with as much information as you can as far as what you've done and checked.

[This message has been edited by reddog (edited November 24, 2000).]

[Treadted2]

Hey Reddog,

I didn't try taking the voltage when reving it. I will do that soon. I also did not wait 5 minutes before measuring. Pretty much just turned it on and did it. I will try that also.

The engine starts fine. The battery isn't new, but not old. I got it a while ago. I don't suspect that.

I don't know about the ground to the motor mount either. I will check all of this. Let me know what else you find out with the diagram and all that.

Thanks

Ted

------------------
84' Grand Wagoneer "Dover"
-AMC 360
-Stock axles(AMC20 & Dana44), tranny & transfer case(NP229)
-MSD TFI upgrade
-K&N Air filter
-Rough Country 3" lift
-Heckelthorne Hydro shocks
-Yokohama Prodigy AT 31X10.5 tires
-American Racing 15X8 Chrome Nugget wheels
-blue fuzzy dice!!

*fuel injection and an MSD 6A ignition will soon be added. Hello 16-17 mpg!!