To Tow or not to Go? (HELP!)

[Narnian]

I'm buying a wagoneer with a shot motor and need to get somehow get it to my house, 45 miles away. I was going to rent a flatbed from Uhaul, but they told me:

A) They are all out of flatbeds,
B) You are not supposed to use a tow dolly, but you can use a tow bar
C) They are fresh out of tow bars!

I am going to keep looking for a tow bar. Is there any problem with sticking the transfer case in Nuetral and using the towbar for a 45 mile trip?

[Narnian]

Never mind, I found a flatbed at another local trailer company. It would still be nice to know though.

[bignblue]

I would stick with a flatbed if at all possible, as you're doing. Too many things can go wrong flat-towing...that's why there's so many posts about it! Actually, if you're a AAA member I'd register the vehicle with them and then report it broken-down...they'll send a rollback to tow you home!

[reddog]

According to the 84 manual you can leave the drivshafts in if you put he xfer case (208 or 229) in neutral. Also says to put he tranmission in park (auto) or in first (manual), lock the front hubs (if so equipped) and leave the steering column unlokked with the key in.

Blue's idea is by far the easiest (and cheapest) join the AAA and have them move it!! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif

[scotty]

ive got a tow bar you could use if you wanted. if you want to flat tow it,the best idea is to disconnect the driveshafts at the axles and tie them to the bottom . i could come down and help ya if you want to fill the tank back up when were done. if youve got AAA that is definately the cheapest,easiest,unless you have a package that limits your tows ot miles per year.

just call the 800 # and act stupid-"i dont know,it wont start. it needs a flat bed ause its full time 4wd." youll have to tell them the last part,or theyll send a regular tow truck and youll end up having to disconnect the rear shaft. they will call the nearest towing service,and just meet them wherever the truck is. the tow guys dont give a rats a** if youre up to soemthing somewhat shady like having AAA move a parts rig you just bought. they get paid either which way,and they wont tell on you. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

theyve saved my life a couple of times-dragged my a** 71 miles back home from haspin once with dead transmission,onc with a blown in hlaf radiator,seems like a third time for something,tho i cant remember what.also a couple times back from middletown.

i used it to get an 86 fiero with a blown motor home i just bought for $300.ive even had them bring me gas once-AAA is a good investment-mine as well use it!

a word on disassembly: find a guy with a trailer and torch and tell him he canhave whatever the shredder gives him for the weight.remove everything you wnat,put it on his trailer,and have him torch off the axle spring hangers,shocks,etc. now when they pick it up to crush it,your convienently left with the axles/springs on the trailer. also toss in anything metal that youll not want,so that its heavier,and youll get a couple extra bucks for it.be careful,tho,a friend of mine did this and had soooo much stuff in there,that the bottom fell out when they picked it up.needless to say,they were very,very angry at him.

your other option is to cut up the entire body and frame with a torch,sawzall,or equivalent into small enough pieces to put into another truck. this method works too,but the other is much easier! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif

just let me know if ya need some help...

------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana 20 swap very soon
searching for dana 18 to replace the 20...

[This message has been edited by scotty (edited November 11, 2000).]

[Michael F]

Brookville Rental in you guessed it Brookville has an extra wide heavy duty tow dolly that I pulled my 81 wt 100mil (in a hurry http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/wink.gif ) with no problem.
I think it rented for around 50 bucks per day and Sunday free if you dropped it off at the right time.

------------------
81 Cherokee Laredo WT
53,000 orig. miles
360/727/208/3.31/31x10.5AT
79 Cherokee Chief WT (snow plow)
360/400/QTw/LR/31x10.5
My family has 7 FSJ's!!!

[bignblue]

In my misspent youth (about three years ago) I worked for a local gas station/shop/tow service that was the AAA alternate for Alabama...we got calls like that all the time, and we didn't care b/c we got paid no matter what. Actually, the two things we did the most were gas runs and lockout service--makes ya question peoples' general intelligence!

I took the job b/c I could use the lifts, tools etc. to work on my car for free--in theory. In practice the shop was either too busy or I was too tired to do anything! Plus, the head mechanic wouldn't let me use his tools (I don't blame him!) so I was pretty much left where I started.....

[Narnian]

I shoulda called my towing service, but I didn't. We bought a tow bar and tugged it home semi - legally. I'm hoping to return the tow bar today, since I realized after the fact that it would be worthless for towing my Corvette. I thought about keeping it for my Jeep Cherry, but it really isn't convenient - we had to pull the bumper off the Wagoneer to attach the bar.

I think I will need help when I'm ready to have it crushed Scotty. It'll be a few weeks or months before that happens though.

[Treadted2]

What would be the best way to get a GW across the country for the least amount of $??

I am going to California this summer, and she's commin' with me one way or another.

Thanks

Ted

------------------
84' Grand Wagoneer "Dover"
-AMC 360
-Stock axles, tranny & transfer case(NP229)
-MSD TFI upgrade
-K&N Air filter
-Rough Country 3" lift
-Heckelthorne Hydro shocks
-Yokohama Prodigy AT 31X10.5 tires
-American Racing 15X8 Chrome Nugget wheels
-blue fuzzy dice!!

[Narnian]

The tow bar seemed to work pretty good, but I don't know if that's a good idea for long distance like that. It sould work but a lot of people have mentioned that the differentials don't get lubed properly when the car is driving them, so on a long trip they may burn up. I don't understand how this is possible but this is what I have heard. I would think it should work. I see RV's going down the road with 4X4's in tow all the time.

[Treadted2]

Is the tow bar the thing that attaches to the front, and the rear wheels roll? Doesn't that put mileadge on your odo?

Ted

------------------
84' Grand Wagoneer "Dover"
-AMC 360
-Stock axles, tranny & transfer case(NP229)
-MSD TFI upgrade
-K&N Air filter
-Rough Country 3" lift
-Heckelthorne Hydro shocks
-Yokohama Prodigy AT 31X10.5 tires
-American Racing 15X8 Chrome Nugget wheels
-blue fuzzy dice!!

[Narnian]

The tow bar attaches to something solid on the front of the car like your frame. All four wheels stay on the ground and your odo continues to roll.

Doing it this way is easier on the tow vehicle. All the weight is off your hitch and your tow vehicle drives far more normally than if you had something weighing down the rear. It is also inexpensive - a tow bar cost me $119.00 at Pep Boys.

The next option is a tow dolly. The front wheels of the vehicle being towed rest on the dolly. This puts some weight on the hitch. I was told by U-haul not to use a tow dolly with a FSJ. It would still roll your mileage. If you have full time 4WD this is risky. If your transfer case slips into drive with only two wheels on the ground . . . Don't be there! A tow dolly runs anywhere from $400 (used) to $2500. U can rent.

The next option is a flatbed trailer. You drive your vehicle on the trailer and strap it down. Your odometer does not change because all four wheels are on the trailer. Typically, car trailers weigh in at 2000 pounds. Stick your FSJ on that and you are towing 6500 pounds. That is a lot to tow for most vehicles, and requires some practice on the part of the driver. A flatbed trailer runs anywhere from $1000 (used) to $25000. U can rent.

The fourth option is an enclosed trailer. Same as a flatbed but with sides and a top. This basically keeps debris from hitting your vehicle, and gives you more places to store things safe from the elements.

[Luxxo Barge]

On my '88 Wag some PO welded on a big tow attachment to the front end.It has two places in front of the stock bumper for what looks like a hitch with two pins.I'm thinking maybe towed by a motorhome but man that would have to be a big motorhome.It looks almost factory the way it was done.Never can tell about PO's.

------------------
'88 Grand Wag(Stock)
360/2BB/QT/126,000mi
Burgandy w/Burg. Leather
Wife's car(I get to drive on the test runs)
Albany,OR

[scotty]

with a tow bar,your odo should not roll,cause your tranny should not turn.you can flat tow very short distances with a tranny or xfer in neutral,but for any distance you should disconnect the driveshafts.since driveshafts are disconnected,no spinning tranny,no accumulated miles. some xfer cases or manual trannies can be towed in neutral if the spinning mainshaft sufficiently lubricates all bearings. an auto will not be be sufficiently lubed since the front pump will only work with the engine running. maybe you could flat tow an auto in neutral with the engine idling,maybe not,not really sure.at any rate,the safest option is always disconnect the driveshafts. the diffs will be fine.the ring gear will splash the gear oil around(assuming the diffs are full) just like when you are driving.its the tranny/xfer you need to worry about when flat towing.

the worse part of flat towing is that,of course,the vehicle must roll.if you break a balljoint,spindle,or something that causes your wheel to fall off,you are in trouble. i personally will be happy with a tow dolly,since they are smaller,easier to store,and require only one axle to be rollable. if you have one front and one rear wheel fall off,give up,throw in the towel,and cal AAA and tell them you need a flatbed.

a friend of mine who works at a garage told me about a chrysler mini van he worked on that had some sort of disconnectable halfshaft,i firget exactly how he said it worked,but the power would spin thru the transaxle,just like a disconnect front end,without spinning any parts iside the transaxle,making it safely flat towable. i honestly have no idea how all these people that flat tow dodge neons and honda,cavilers,whatever,behind their motor homes get away with it.it really doesnt seem like a good idea to me.maybe they live in a world of blissful ignorance,and will be turning the car in at the end of a 3 year lease anyway,and dont give a rats a** if the tranny only has half the life it should.

yeah,you never really know what motives POs had for some of the silly sh** that theyve done.

------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana-spicer 18 with drum E brake and PTO swap very soon
searching for offset QT rear and PTO winch

[Narnian]

Ya know, that makes sense what Scotty said there. It shouldn't turn the ODO if the transfer case is in nuetral, which makes me wonder how it's all hooked up precisely. When we towed the junk wagoneer, I sat inside it for the first mile (just in case we didn't hook it up right and I needed to squeeze the brakes). The funny thing is that even with the transfer case in Nuetral, the speedometer still registered speed. I then decided to put the transmission in nuetral too and the speedo still registered.

I guess the only way to do it is to disconnect the front and rear shafts, and then you should be hunky dory. Of course, I don't know HOW to disconnect a drive shaft (but I would never admit to that to my "fans" on this forum http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif )



------------------
81 Laredo,
360 w/Holley Fuel Injection, Edelbrock man, 219, 3.31, 33's, no fuzzy dice (yet)
86 Corvette
87 GMC Jimmy (Gotta Mechanic Coming)

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Narnian:
Ya know, that makes sense what Scotty said there. It shouldn't turn the ODO if the transfer case is in nuetral, which makes me wonder how it's all hooked up precisely. When we towed the junk wagoneer, I sat inside it for the first mile (just in case we didn't hook it up right and I needed to squeeze the brakes). The funny thing is that even with the transfer case in Nuetral, the speedometer still registered speed. I then decided to put the transmission in nuetral too and the speedo still registered. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The speedometer cable is driven off a gear on the output shaft of the transfer case, not the transmission; as long as the rear driveshaft spins, so too does the speedometer and odometer.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I guess the only way to do it is to disconnect the front and rear shafts, and then you should be hunky dory. Of course, I don't know HOW to disconnect a drive shaft (but I would never admit to that to my "fans" on this forum http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Four bolts or nuts at the differential yoke, and you can pry the u-joint back to get the driveshaft to pop off. Duct-tape around the cross (to keep the bearing caps from falling off), and then wire up the loose end to the crossmember or exhaust pipe. Do the same for the front, and you're all set!

------------------
Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[FSJNut]

There us a good FAQ on tow bars and tow dollys at www.towingworld.com/faqs.html#1. (http://www.towingworld.com/faqs.html#1.)
IMHO tow bars are designed to tow a vehicle with another much larger vehicle. For example a diesel pusher motorhome towing a Saturn. The extra weight to pull and stop is adding maybe 20% over the weight of the motorhome vs. 100% for a GW towing a GW.
There may also be some legal issues regarding weights towed without brakes in your state.
I towed a GW on a car hauler trailer (flatbed) with electric brakes and I could stop as quick as I normally could.
If you notice there is a pattern to what you see being flat towed. Saturns, Hondas, small GM's and some others are fine to tow flat. Most vehicles require a driveshaft disconnect kit or have the driveshaft(s) disconnected/removed.

------------------
87 GW
88 GW
85 GW (on its way back from being a parts car)

[Ralph]

To disconnect the driveshaft, you simply undo the four little bolts at each end where the u-joints are. I think they are 5/16" bolts, but I had to use an 8mm socket instead. I just did it this past weekend so I could get around the gas tank skid plate a bit easier.

You have the technology to do this -- it's much easier than you might think.

[Narnian]

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH! I get it!

I always thought the speedo ran off the tranny like in my sportscar.

I'll have to crawl under there sometime soon and look at that drive shaft. It sounds like it's not too tough to do.

[andy d]

Treadted, consider this alternative, taking the money it would cost you to transport your wag across the country and putting it into mechanical upgrades to ensure an uneventful trip. to safely tow a wag, you need something big enough to stop the 2 rigs safely. towing is a pita. budget a weeks time, and have an adventure. in 76 my bride and i drove a 66 bug to the left coast. lemme tell you a wag is more comfortable and prolly more reliable.


------------------
'88 gwag,pure stock

[BobBarry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Narnian:
I'll have to crawl under there sometime soon and look at that drive shaft. It sounds like it's not too tough to do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's the way I usually do it:

* Sit on the ground, facing away from the Jeep
* Lay all the way back, on a creeper, if one is available
* Grab framerail, and with a firm but steady tug, pull yourself under the bottom of the truck.
* Look directly upward; this will permit you to see the driveshaft. You may need additional light, if in fact it is not daytime.

Hmmm, now that I write it all out, you're right, getting a look at the driveshaft isn't all that tough...


http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
Bob Barry<UL TYPE=SQUARE>* '78 Cherokee 4-door
* '88 Grand Wagoneer[/list]http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/

[Narnian]

http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

It might be tough if I get grease in my eyes!

[This message has been edited by Narnian (edited November 16, 2000).]

[ClarkGriswald]

I would worry more about the flakes of rust in your eye's than grease..
When I scrapped out the chero recently we just hooked a chain thru the passanger side doorframe\windowframe, and draped it over the roof over the drivers side.. and hooked it to a giant end loader and pulled the truck up onto its side.. once I dealt with the leaking gas tank and made it safe to use a torch around there (removed the tank and burned off the old gas,carefully) i just torched off the u bolts, and shocks at there shafts, and the end of the drag link that hooked to the steering box and just tipped the axles back down to the ground (actually knocked em over and let em bounce.. tires were stil on em, semi deflated)

Im sure you could replace the giant end loader for an fsj in low range for the tipping over part..

------------------
88 Grand Wagoneer
D44's front\rear
Warn 20990 Lockouts
AMC 360
TF 727
NP 229--Soon to be replaced by an NP208 that currently inhabits my kitchen.

"I came, I saw, I typed some stuff!"

[scotty]

only prob with that is that you are then left with a very large,unrollable hunk of metal on its side in your yard that you must somehow get from there to the crusher.

i dont relly have a prob with grease or rust. whe i work on mine,chunks of mud fall into my eyes! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/biggrin.gif



------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana-spicer 18 with drum E brake and PTO swap very soon
searching for offset QT rear and PTO winch