T176 Shifting problems? Help?

[UnkleMunky]

So, if ya'll didn't pick it up, yeh, had another J10 follow me home, so starting to tend to some stuff on it now. Specs:

'83 J10, longbed, plow, 258, T176(4 speed), NP208. Got it fairly cheap, but tranny is goofed up. Of course, a T176 isn't probably an ideal "plow tranny", so maybe that has something to do with it. Anyway...no "R"(reverse). Was able to drive it 150 miles back without much of a problem, but wondering if anyone can cyber-diagnose this better than I'm doing so far.

Can actually get it into "R", and from a standstill, will seem ready to go back, but as soon as I start letting up on clutch, pushing on gas, she pops out and grinds, so I flip into N, as it just grinds more trying to go into back into R further. Shifting "into" 1st can be "hard" to say the least...especially from a standstill(rolling it goes in better). Even 2nd is a little work, but 3rd is decent and 4th is piece of cake.

Anyway....am looking for a replacement T176, and will hopefully just swap a decent one in, but was wondering, in the meantime, if anyone had insight on what might be the trouble here. Does this sound like a rebuild, or just synchros, etc. fix might do the trick, or this sound worse? Might be worth considering rebuilding this one later on if need be, or even if it sounds like a simple fix, might pull it and play with it soon.

Already been using it to haul wood, but R would be "really" nice! smile.gif

Thanks for any insight.

[Lindel]

Munk, synchros at the very least, but I also suspect some bearings are showing their age, too. Good news is, that rebuild kits should still be available, unlike my T-15.

It's rebuild time for it, without a doubt, but 4-speeds are an easy rebuild, as long as you don't mind lifting weights! :D

[UnkleMunky]

Thanks Lindel:

Looks like if I can get a good swapper first, I'll go that route, and then rebuild...otherwise just rebuild. How does the following kit look:

MRK100323 Master Rebuild Kit Jeep 1980-84
$97.90

http://drivetrain.com/tremec4sp.html

Would that include everything I'll need? Will still need a good manual on this tranny though, I suppose too, correct?

Thanks for the input!

[Jeep Craze]

Hey unkle,
This may be a long shot but did you ever think about adjusting the clutch linkage so it will disengage alittle mnore. I had the same problem when I put my repaired clutch linkage back together. I couldn't get it into 1st unless i used alot of brute force, and is it possible that when you say it is going in, it is just touching the other gear not actually engageing all the way. Because as soon as you put alittle presure on it, it pops out. (sounds oh so familiar) Also what you might try doing is put it in fourth gear then go to reverse(standing still of course) By doing that you stop all the internals w/out grinding. But if you push the clutch in then it grinds trying to go to reverse to the point of which it doesn't go in anyway......your clutch isn't disengaging all the way. When you say that you can't get it into 1st easy does it go in better if the truck is moving ever so slightly.(forward) if it does, it sounds like your clutch isn't adjusted quite right. Just imagine trying to put it into gear w/out pushing the clutch in while standing still......whats it gonna doo???????? Its gonna grind. Now when you push the clutch in it is suppose to disengage the input shaft in the trans to alow the changing of gears. If the clutch isn't disengaging 100% it will continue to spin the input shaft while the truck is in Nuetral. I would suggest adjusting the clutch before you rebuild or replace the Trans. Sorry its so long....just think you might be overlooking something easy. Good luck Craig

[UnkleMunky]

Thanks 80J10:

I'll look at that too....I haven't gotten into this one too far yet.....but yes, linkage had crossed my mind, but sorta slipped out(have a lot of other things going on right now too). Much of what you described sounds like what's happening:

-goes into 1st MUCH better, though still a little hard, if truck is rolling slightly, so if it won't go into 1st, I get it rolling in 2nd, and then work it into 1st.

-I have worked it into 4th from N, and other gears via then through N and into R, and that will stop things, and can get it INTO "R", but as soon as I apply gas/let off clutch, it slips, so yes, there could be an issue of it not fully getting the gears in place. I can live with 1-4 issues right now, but a functional R would be really nice! smile.gif I "think" linkage is similar to my '77/78s, so hopefully I'll make sense of it readily(don't have an '83 manual yet).

-One concern I have about the condition of the tranny is I was told it "went out" while the PO was using it for plowing(we live in snow country) winter before last. Thus, I was definitely leaning toward "damage", but not sure how bad. Even "if" linkage will get it working for now, I figure either a rebuild or swapped tranny might not be a bad thing to consider.

Overall, it's these "take a look at this first" idea like you mention that I'm looking for right now.....so I do appreciate it. I'll post whether that makes a difference or not! smile.gif

Thanks!

[Lindel]

The price seems very reasonable to me, especially compared to what I paid when I had mine rebuilt (no place to work on it, glad that's soon to be done with!).

A manual would be good, but 3 and 4 speeds are fairly simple beasts, and the hardest part is keeping up with all the small bits. I suspect you could probably wing it, if you had to.

You might even see if they have a manual, or maybe you can find one on ebay.

[UnkleMunky]

OK....followup on the linkage adjustment: Adjusted both directions, first to engage more, then less, and it didn't seem to help at all. In fact, now it's not getting R at all...not even the mediocre of before. So, not sure what that did or not.

On another note though, I did a fair amount of checking on some CJ oriented forums, and the T176 is common news to them(being 258/T176 was a common setup for 80-86 CJs), so found some more comments in their discussions. Seems the "forks" getting bent, misaligned, etc. is a common thing with the T176s. I could gather that could affect 1-2 and 3-4, but would that affect R at all? On that angle, it looks like pulling the cover to take a look at the top end is necessary, so I might dive into that in the next couple days and see how things look there.

Anyway.....if anything develops on this situation, I'll post here again. If anyone else has any thoughts on this, feel free to post as well....any help is appreciated! smile.gif

Take care..

[andy d]

hope its shifter forks. onna bug of many years ago it was the reverse idler gear bearing. good luck on the new rig UM