who sells HEI conv is TFI better?

[drives mopars]

is the tfi or hei better

who sells them

what in steps is the tfi
ign
box
distributor\cap
i see the hei is recurved hei cut and new gear
who sells it is it better then tFI

[Chevelleguy]

They are about equal. The TFI is a Ford setup that you have to put together. The HEI is a custom distributor with GM parts made to fit your AMC motor. The third option is to just add an MSD unit and coil to your distributor. The HEI is sold by Performance Distributor.

[ February 09, 2004, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: chevelleguy ]

[89grand]

Well the MSD and coil only option will not give the same results as an HEI or TFI upgrade, The TFI plus an MSD though is a good setup, that's what I'm running. I see you have been asking questions about this a lot. I think the TFI with or without the MSD is a great setup, although a little better with it. But ask someone with the HEI and they think it's better. Either choice is good, I didn't want to yank the distributor and stuff so I did the TFI. It's very easy to do if you can do tuneup and the results are worth while. The same can be said for the HEI set up as well. It all comes down to what you want to do, neither is superior to the other.

[sloop]

The Ford Duraspark cap and rotor upgrade with a TFI or MSD coil is the easiest upgrade.

You can get a TFI kit or a HEI distributor modified to drop in a Jeep from here:

http://www.driveajeep.com/main/page1.html

It will be more expensive than getting all the parts yourself probably, but cheaper than one of the aftermarket HEI setups.

[drives mopars]

tfi

[Rande]

With the TFI conversion, you just replace the rotor, distributor cap, ignition coil, sparkplug and coil wires, regap the plugs.

With the HEI, you replace the whole distributor with a custom unit, the sparkplug wires and regap the plugs.

The TFI conversion is easy, simple, with parts available at any parts store, salvage yard.

The HEI conversion requires the custom distributor that uses parts available anywhere, but the distributor itself is a custom unit that can be replaced only by ordering a new unit from just one or two sources.

The TFI conversion can be done for just about $100 using brand new parts, far less if you grab parts from a salvage yard.

The HEI costs well over $100 just for the distributor.

Biggest bang for the buck is the TFI.

[hippymill]

don't want to hijack a thread or anything, but how easy is a MSD box to install?

[89grand]

Very easy, it took my less than an hour. Make sure if you get one you also get the MSD Duraspark distributor to MSD unit wiring harness, it only $15. If you need any help installing it PM me for more indepth details.

[hippymill]

i need the ditributor too, or will it work with my current tfi setup?

[89grand]

It works with the stock distributor, that's why I said "get the MSD Duraspark distributor to MSD unit wiring harness". You unplug the Duraspark ignition module from the stock distributor and plug the new MSD wiring harness into the distributor and then to the MSD. I suppose you could cut and splice into the original harness but it's not worth it when the MSD harness is only 15 bucks. I left the original harness unplugged near the distributor so that I could use the Duraspark module as a back up if necessary. Again, if your ready to do this soon let me know, I'll email detailed instructions on how to do it.

[ February 11, 2004, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: 89grand ]

[wagon of death]

Unfortunatly I have the dreaded 'plastic' vacuum advance. Can I swap dist with a later model year? (Such as an '89) Or do I need to wory about something else?

[jode]

Originally posted by wagon of death:
Unfortunatly I have the dreaded 'plastic' vacuum advance. Can I swap dist with a later model year? (Such as an '89) Or do I need to wory about something else?Yes you can swap the dizzy, but you also need to do a wiring graft, and swap the later model ignition module with it. It has to go together.
PS - I have the plastic vac advance too - Prestolite - it blows

[sloop]

You can also do HEI with junkyard parts - although if I recall, it requires grinding the AMC drive gear and putting it on a Chevy inline 6 distributor.. there are articles on the web that tell you how to do it.

[Amc71601]

I did my hei with junkyard parts and didn't have to grind any thing I also got a adjustable vacuum advance from summit so I could tinker with the advance It cost me $13 for the advance kit and that was it

[key]

I purchased my HEI at ;
http://www.performancedistributors.com/amcdui.htm

I have enjoyed the performance. It is expensive, but its quality.

Performance Distributors now offers the D.U.I. (Davis Unified Ignition) for AMC applications. The AMC D.U.I. is a one-piece ignition system with the coil in the distributor cap and the module inside the distributor. The D.U.I. Coil produces 50,000 volts and allows spark plug gaps to be opened up to .050" - .055". The Performance Distributors Dyna-Module has more electronic dwell time in it to give the coil more saturation time and produce a hotter spark. The D.U.I. distributor eliminates the ballast resistor that is used on the stock AMC ignition system. This will allow full alternator voltage through the ignition system and will provide a better spark and more power.
Each D.U.I. Distributor is curved on a distributor machine based on the specs of the engine. A super smooth advance curve will eliminate engine damaging detonation and give instant throttle response. The unit is polished and lubed as it is assembled making it a true blueprinted distributor.

The AMC D.U.I. is a real work of craftsmanship and although it is uniquely designed, replacement parts are easy to find. High Energy Ignition (H.E.I.) replacement parts will fit right on the D.U.I. These parts can be found at any local auto parts store.

Part # Application-Street/Strip Price Part # Application-Race Price
40820 290-304-343-360-390-401 $359.00 408212 290-304-343-360-390-401 w/o vac $429.00
40620 232-258 Inline 6 cyl. $359.00 408211 290-304-343-360-390-401 w/ vac $429.00

[Rogue]

adding up 12 years being a mechanic - i've replaced a LOT of ford ignition modules, i've replaced very few chebby ignition modules - with exception of buick 3800 DIS, those you change every time you change your oil LOL

[jgarcia2]

OK, I too have decided to go the ignition upgrade route. Now, I think I've decided to do the MSD upgrade with a TFI coil. I'll also replace rotor and cap per all those upgrade instruction lists (just makes sense) along with wires and plugs.

My main question is...will the Autozone CONRAD (C832G)TFI coil ($20) be just fine, or should I go the extra $15 and get an MSD TFI coil?

I'm ready to start this! My engine bay wiring melted, (probably the ammeter) so I'm replacing that and the ignition (no more stupid resistor wire!)

Anyway, thanks for the info!

John Garcia, II
Hanscom AFB, MA

[zmjeeps]

DUI is not the only source for AMC HEIs. Z&M Jeeps sells both V8 and I6 versions for a lot less than DUI. Information is one the website. www.zmjeeps.com (http://www.zmjeeps.com)

[Tom Duncan]

Compare apples to apples.I'm researching the same thing right now and I've been told the TFI only equals the hei IF you use an MSD box(I certainly could have been misinformed though!)If you buy everything new for the TSI,the cost is very close.I'm not trying to instigate,its just a lot of money.The fact that the TFI can be built with used parts is an advantage;so is the clean one wire set up of the HEI.I've also learned that the later harness plugs into the firewall on the 76(same year as mine!).This also sets you up for a plug in internally regulated alternator.You can go to the wrecker and get everything all at once!I still don't know if the later alternator uses the same mounts though.I haven't been to the salvage yard to verify this,so this is heresay until somebody replies whos done it.

[2j20's]

well did the ford set up and to tell ya the truth i cann't tell it `done a think over the stock set up but set me back a bill...

so since i have one of the DUI laying around i'm going to try it and see what be come's of it..me and jeepfreck is putting together a new motor for the j20 with a summit cam roller tip rockers and dropping on a new holley.if this sucker don't rock WELL I'LL let you know the plan's on the 454 build up coming up on the other j20...

[Cecil14]

Ok, in case of any confusion here: the AMC 6 cylinder HEI can be done with just a stock chebby I6 dizzy and AMC V8 drive gear. Nothing to it, swap the gears and drop it in.

The HEI dizzy for the AMC V8 is a bit harder to come up with and from what I can tell better bought than trying to make it. I'm not sure what exactly you need a dizzy from (something GM, I've been told it's NOT a chevy). Whatever it comes from the housing has to be ground a bit to fit the AMC motor. I don't have two to compare so that's about all I know.

Anthony

[RacerJ]

Sorry, would one of you guys mind explaining what the advantages of the HEI are supposed to be over going with MSD parts?

I was thinking of getting the MSD distributor (http://www.msdignition.com/dist_43.htm) , ignition control (http://www.msdignition.com/ignition_8.htm) , and coil. (http://www.msdignition.com/coil_blaster_1.htm)

[Tom Duncan]

The MSD has an advantage at high rpms.Thats not really applicable to AMC V-8s though.Buying the MSD box,dizzy,and coil is one of the most expensive ways to do it!MSD also makes a dizzy with a module so that you just need a coil.I saw it on summits website.I personally like having just a distributor.No coil,boxes,or wires running through the engine compartment with the HEI.Its all located on the dizzy with one wire coming out(two if you run a tach).HEI or TFI may be as simple as being a Chevy or Ford man!

[RacerJ]

Yeah, I saw the "Ready-to-Run" (http://www.msdignition.com/dist_42.htm) distributor, but I'm suspicious as to what the actual performance increase would be using that? Anybody actually used one of these?

What's the spark duration (degrees) on the HEI? Because I'm seeing that with the MSD ignition control box you get 20?

[ March 11, 2004, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: RacerJ ]

[Driver]

Unfortunatly I also have the dreaded 'plastic' vacuum advance.
What all do I need to change to TFI?

Thanks,
Ray

[nxcj]

http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=offroadjeepshort&Number=985180&Forum=offroadjeepshort&Words=team%20rush&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Old=a llposts&Main=984663&Search=true#Post985180

If no one here has been of Off-Road.com in the past, here's a link to the first applicable thread related to TFI. If you want hours of reading on the subject, go there and get on the Short Wheelbase forum. Search "Team Rush" and "TFI" and you'll find a TON of info. Team Rush was a guy (it's been several years; don't know if he's still around) who lambasted the HEI and had a lot of research to go along with it.

I'm not busting the HEI in anyway, just another source. After all of the arguing about HEI and TFI on that page, the resulting conclusion was: If you're not building a race motor, quit wasting your breath.

I personally would not waste money on MSD. Jacobs, etc. with a stock motor. (DO THE TFI OR HEI THOUGH) It is simply not needed. Turning 6k + a lot; that's a different story. Otherwise it's just a neat looking distributor.

[nxcj]

Here's a cut&paste of the Prestolite to Duraspark situation:

"Here is the long and short of it.
THE TEST,
Check your ignition source, usually the positive side of the coil for 12V. with the key switch in both the start and run positions. If you don't have 12V. in the start position, run a 16 Ga. wire from the 'I' terminal on the starter solenoid to the positive side of the coil.
If you don't have a full 12V. at the positive terminal with the key in the 'RUN' position, find the ignition resistor and get rid of it. You need a full 12V to the coil and Dura Spark module to make it operate correctly.
Use 16 Ga. wire between the module and the coil.
Cost, nothing.

THE DISTRIBUTOR,
Acquire a Motorcraft distributor for an AMC 304/360.
Junk yard for about $25 to $50, discount auto parts store, around $50 plus core charge.
If you buy one from the parts store, ask for a distributor for a '79 CJ-7 with a 304 V-8.
If you get one from a junk yard, make sure you disassemble it and check everything out, and lube it good.
This is a good time to change the vacuum advance for about $10.
If you really feel froggy, while you are rebuilding the distributor, add a set of mustang springs to the centrifugal advance. Mr Gasket Part # 925D for about $4.
If you decide to replace the advance plate with trigger coil attached, don't forget the vacuum advance is on the opposite side, so you need to hook the vacuum advance arm the what is marked for a 6 cylinder on the plate. Advance plate is about $10.

The Motorcraft distributor will have three wires coming out of it.
Orange, Violet, and Black.
The Orange and Violet are for the Pick up coil, the Black is a ground for the Dura Spark Module.

THE DURA SPARK MODULE,
The Motorcraft Dura Spark module is about $16 dollars around here at the discount auto parts stores. Look for the so called 'blue grommet' box.
My recommendation is for a Dura Spark module from a '79 Jeep CJ-7 with a 304 V-8.
The module will have six wires coming out of it in two connectors.
THE FIRST CONNECTOR,
RED is the power feed during cranking. It should be hooked to the Positive side of the coil.
WHITE is the power feed during 'RUN', this should be hooked to the positive side of the coil.
THE SECOND CONNECTOR,
BLACK is the ground for the Dura Spark Module. Normally it is supposed to ground through the distributor, but smart money splices this wire and grounds it manually.
GREEN is the ground for the coil, and goes to the Negative side of the coil.
VIOLET is the pick-up coil in the distributor.
ORANGE is the other side of the pick-up coil in the distributor.

THE IGNITION COIL.
The stock factory type of Motorcraft Ignition Coil has one strange thing about it. It doesn't have screw terminals. It has a slick little clip that connects the coil to the wiring harness.
When you are looking straight down on the ford coil, there is a tab sticking out of the top of the coil next to the high voltage tower. If you use this tab as 12 O'clock, then the negative terminal is at 9 O'clock and the positive is at 3 O'clock.
The coil connector clip will have a green wire in the negative connection, and a red wire in the positive connection.
The coil is between $10 and $25, and the connector clip is about $5.

THE DISTRIBUTOR CAP BASE, CAP & ROTOR,
Ask for a distributor cap base for a '79 Ford F-150 Pick-up with a V-8.
Get a distributor cap with BRASS terminals for the same '79 Ford Pick-up W/ V-8.
Get a premium rotor for the same '79 Ford Pick-up W/ V-8.
It doesn't matter what V-8, they all used the same distributor in '79
Cost is about $25 for the cap base, cap & rotor.

THE PLUG WIRES,
Usually, the store brand of life time warranty plug wires are OK for any stock ignition.
Order the plug wires for a '79 F-350 truck, with a 460 V-8. These should be long enough and have the correct ends for the high voltage cap.
Cost is about $20

THE PLUGS,
Order spark plugs for, and gap them according to the '79 Jeep 304 V-8 specs.
Normally about a buck each, so about $8

Your HEI upgrade is complete, and it didn't cost the arm and a leg the DUI system did. (DUI, about $450, not counting wires or plugs)
Hope this is what you were looking for... Aaron."

[ March 11, 2004, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: nxcj ]

[1BDWAGN]

I have a question about the TFI setup. If the distributor gets water on it after the TFI conversion does this have an effect on performance? I have had several GM cars that I sprayed the engine down at the car wash and drove away with no problems. Now when I got the Jeep I put a plastic bag over the dist and I still had to wait 10 minutes til I could get it to start.
Also no one has mentioned that a member on this forum sells the HEIs for AMC v8s. His name is Ted Wendell. Do a search. The cost was $165 which is the cost of an MSD box alone. The HEI is a 1 wire hookup. The only issue is it's size. I tried to locate a small cap HEI for the AMC V8 and couldn't find one.

[Driver]

nxcj, Thank you very much...That is the info I need.

Ray

[tgreese]

I have read that the HEI setup is very reliable. It's a one-wire setup, with no external control box and no external coil (the earliest year of the I6 HEI had an external coil). With TFI, you keep the Duraspark ICU, which I gather from the many posts here, is unreliable. Can anybody confirm this?