HELP New engine installed but wont turn

[91waggy]

Stopped by to check on the progress of my new engine install on my 91 wagoneer. The mechanic says that the engine won’t turn when bolted up to the torque converter. He has had the engine in and out three times. Engine turns fine when out. He thinks the crank in the new engine was a for a manual but I have an auto. Is this the problem? Ugh I don’t want to ship my engine back to Washington State. Any help????? Thanks

[Elliott]

Yes, it probably is for a manual... but the crank is universal. The manual did not have a spacer ring... um, about 3"? on the very end so that would be missing.
Then the manual had a brass input shaft bushing in the end of the crank. The auto had a bushing in there also... but different dimensions and you may not be able to engage the tranny fully if this is incorrect. Had that problem with a rebuilt 360 once, they checked the build number and sure enough it was a crank set up for a manual trans. You don't need to return it, you can have them get you the correct spacer and bushing.
Other then that, your mechanic probably knows that the torque converter needs to be fully seated on the trans sleeve... pressure, twist, clunk and it locks about .5-.75" onto the shaft. If it's not seated it won't matter what the deal is with the back of your crank.

Somebody here probably knows more on this, it's been 15 years since I've dealt with that one.

Incidentally, who in WA did you buy it from?

[ September 20, 2003, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]

[Elliott]

Chilton's only has a diagram showing the Manual's pilot bearing and wick, nothing on the spacer's for the auto crank set-up.
Anybody got some pics so these guys know what to look for if they can't figure it out by the build #?????
I know that outer ring is hard to see as separate from the crank, the line is barely visible, someone on here may have some pics.

[91waggy]

So all that might be needed is the bushing and spacer for an auto trany?

[ September 20, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: 91waggy ]

[Elliott]

It is possible that it will need the bushing that fits in the end of the crank and then a spacer ring that fits over the end of the crank to take up gap between the crank and torque coverter.

It is also possible that the guy just didn't get the torque convertor to seat on the tranny sleeve, although... he oughta know that.

Have the builder run the numbers to see what they gave you... it is such a pain when they screw these things up... but they can send you the parts or you might be able to get them locally.

When I fought mine I ran into this problem right after my appendix surgery... I thought I was going to die before I could kill them... at Hawleys Auto. Darn near went back into the hospital.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by 91waggy:
He thinks the crank in the new engine was a for a manual but I have an auto. Is this the problem? Ugh I don’t want to ship my engine back to Washington State. Any help????? ThanksI have a suggestion...fire the mechanic.

Did he really say the above?

[Elliott]

Get 'em to overnight the parts to you.

[91waggy]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 91waggy:
He thinks the crank in the new engine was a for a manual but I have an auto. Is this the problem? Ugh I don’t want to ship my engine back to Washington State. Any help????? Thanks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a suggestion...fire the mechanic.

Did he really say the above?
Yes he did. :(

[Elliott]

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[91waggy]

Thanks for your help Elliott I will try your suggestions

[Elliott]

Good luck and check back because if I called anything wrong someone will post or they may have pics of the parts.

[ September 20, 2003, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]

[JeepBountyHunter]

I might have pic's around regarding the bushings..if I do, I'll post..
-Aaron

[gsmikie]

ill bet he did not get the torque converter seated in the trans ...he did put a new front seal in the trans since the motor was out ...right ??????

[ September 20, 2003, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: gsmikie ]

[91waggy]

Pics would be great if anyone has them. gsmikie no new front seal in the trans. Is it worth doing? The torque converter was never removed. Only the engine was pulled.

[ September 20, 2003, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: 91waggy ]

[Bob Barry]

If this motor originally came from an earlier FSJ, it may have had the sleeve for the TH400 left in the crank pilot hole. It is virtually impossible to tell that it isn't part of the crankshaft, and very few people know about it (though do a search on this board, and you'll find plenty of info on it).

If he had to use the engine-to-tranny bolts to snug the two together, then he can also replace the front-pump to the transmission when he pulls the motor again, because that is usually what is destroyed when the converter is forced back into the housing.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by Bob Barry:
If this motor originally came from an earlier FSJ, it may have had the sleeve for the TH400 left in the crank pilot hole. It is virtually impossible to tell that it isn't part of the crankshaft, and very few people know about it (though do a search on this board, and you'll find plenty of info on it).

If he had to use the engine-to-tranny bolts to snug the two together, then he can also replace the front-pump to the transmission when he pulls the motor again, because that is usually what is destroyed when the converter is forced back into the housing.Yep, see... now I'm not even thinkin' past TH400.
Betcha Bob's right on the money.

[gsmikie]

Originally posted by 91waggy:
Pics would be great if anyone has them. gsmikie no new front seal in the trans. Is it worth doing? The torque converter was never removed. Only the engine was pulled.anytime the motor or trans is removed PUT A NEW SEAL IN THE TRANS i dont care if the seal is 5 months old PUT A NEW SEAL IN THE TRANS $3.00 now or $150.00 later

[91waggy]

Well we took some measurements and it appears that the new engine has a spacer in it. With the spacer removed everything should fit. :cool: I will let you know on monday if it works.

Thanks for everyones help

[ September 21, 2003, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: 91waggy ]

[Bob Barry]

Again, be sure to check the condition of the front-pump on the tranny BEFORE you bolt it all back together. When he bolted the engine to the tranny, he forced the torque-converter back into the housing; the thing it was pushing against is the back of the front-pump. I only say this because the problem you've encountered is relatively common, and it is also common to damage the tranny by forcing the engine to bolt to the tranny.

The fact that the two did not go together smoothly should have been a sign for the mechanic to stop and check things out. If he gorilla'd the two together, he should at least have the decency to check out what damage his negligence could have caused.

[91waggy]

okay what should he look for?

[Elliott]

Originally posted by 91waggy:
okay what should he look for?BTTT

[91waggy]

anyone?

[Elliott]

Originally posted by Elliott:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 91waggy:
okay what should he look for?BTTT</font>[/QUOTE]BTTT

[Bob Barry]

He should pull the front-pump housing from the tranny, and inspect the back cover to see if it's cracked or if the pump rotor is damaged.

I don't know if he'll have to pull the tranny to do this, but none of the other internals have to come out, so I suspect it's even possible to do this with the tranny in-place.

If he hesitates, have him sign a statement that he will take responsibility for any potential transmission damage caused by his negligence on the engine install. An "I dunno why your tranny isn't working; it musta been about to die when you brought it in!" won't do in this case.

If he's any kind of guy, he'll pull the tranny and throw in new clutches and seals while it's accessible, just to maintain customer good-will.

OTOH, if he's the real Gomer that he seems to be shaping up to be, you may not WANT him doing any of this. In that case, you would just have him sign the statement, have a reputable tranny-shop redo the transmission, and send him the bill for the portion of the cost related to repairing the damaged front-pump.

[gsmikie]

at least remove the front seal and with a flashlight look into the front pump gear for marks and check the end of the converter snout SINCE YOU ARE GOING TO PUT A FRONT SEAL IN THE TRANS

[Ed Jack]

And tell us where you went, so we won't go there.

[91waggy]

Well they got the engine in it today. The crank was set up for a manual tran. He said that they did not hurt the tranny :rolleyes: and they didnt check it :confused: The engine is in with everything bolted back on. Could there have been damage? Engine was not started while wrong bushings were in place. The engine bolted on fine wasnt tight it just didnt rotate by hand.

[Bob Barry]

The damage would be caused by bolting the engine snug with the transmission. That forces the torque-converter snout end to try to protrude through the back of the front-pump on the transmission.

You may have been lucky, and it won't be cracked.

Or maybe you won't.

[mdill]

Good chance the front pump on the trans is toast, also I would have him pull the
trust bearing on the crank to see what that looks like before going any further.
Your mechanic is not having a having a good day !!

Mike D.