international scout vs fsj

[typeO]

ive been learning a lil about scouts too,

ive noticed that some of the scouts have amc 360s in them... does any one know if the bolt pattern for the 392 and so worth are the same as amcs?
or just mabe what is the deal... is any of this stuff interchange able?

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http://photos.yahoo.com/typeotypeo.

90 Grand Wagoneer "Bucho"
360 all stock (gone to momma in-laws) :(

75 Wagoneer "Kryptonite"
not running yet
working on installing 360 into a 401 hole

98 Dodge Ram quad cab 2x4
360

94 dodge ram swb 2x4
360 (167k)
http://www.virtue.nu/yazahx/rand/TypeO.jpg

[cherokee matt]

i have had a 69 scout and a 73 scout.there is no comparsion between the scouts and the FULL SIZE JEEPS.jeep are superior in so many ways.1.wheel base
2.axle size
3.avalablity of parts
4.relibality
it,s not true that scout parts will interchange with jeep.i found that Ford parts are more suited to what your looking for.as for motors.if it doesn't have an international engine than it may not be the original motor.sorry

[Crazy_Jeepman]

It may be a 401 that you are looking at. Intenational used the AMC 401. I just do not know if it was ever used in the Scouts. However someone may have easily put it in the Scout, or it could be a 360 but I do not think International used any other non Intenational motor besides the 401. However the 401 and 360 look identical and they will bolt up to the same mounts and bellhousing. I would guess anything is possible.

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1970 Wagoneer! Dauntless 350/Th 400/D20/44s. Posi In My Rear. Currently Getting A Frame Off Restore, And a Few Mods. The To Do List Is Longer Than The Wagoneer Is!!!!
http://images.andale.com/f2/116/106/4651773/990532060948_sigjeep.JPG

[typeO]

yes... 401.. sorry
i thinking how will the trannny and stuff would interchange, i think the travelall are the one that ran the 401

but that is what im thinking.. would the 196 (their i4 (half of v8) ) could any of there stuff be used to help fix wags or vias versa?

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I would guess somethings could be used. I however am not real sure on what. I am not real familiar with the IH drivtrain. In fact you now know more than I do about Internationals. I will be watching this thread as I see a lot of old IH laying around.

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1970 Wagoneer! Dauntless 350/Th 400/D20/44s. Posi In My Rear. Currently Getting A Frame Off Restore, And a Few Mods. The To Do List Is Longer Than The Wagoneer Is!!!!
http://images.andale.com/f2/116/106/4651773/990532060948_sigjeep.JPG

[typeO]

her is my guess... but that is what it is a guess.

ih.. didnt stay with the same tanny engine bolt patterns.. i dont think they cared (waiting for a tech guru here to confirm)
im thinking ih didnt care as to what they put in them yr to yr... i even think when they ran the 401 they used the 727 tanny now past that to the x case i dont know.. but a lot of classified ads show dana 44s listed?
maybe someone will cnofirm some of my guesses

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http://photos.yahoo.com/typeotypeo.

90 Grand Wagoneer "Bucho"
360 all stock (gone to momma in-laws) :(

75 Wagoneer "Kryptonite"
not running yet
working on installing 360 into a 401 hole

98 Dodge Ram quad cab 2x4
360

94 dodge ram swb 2x4
360 (167k)
http://www.virtue.nu/yazahx/rand/TypeO.jpg

[Crazy_Jeepman]

I don't know what T-case was used, but if I had to guess it would be the Dana 20 as seemed everything had a Dana 20 back then. Dana 44s are axles not T-cases.

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1970 Wagoneer! Dauntless 350/Th 400/D20/44s. Posi In My Rear. Currently Getting A Frame Off Restore, And a Few Mods. The To Do List Is Longer Than The Wagoneer Is!!!!
http://images.andale.com/f2/116/106/4651773/990532060948_sigjeep.JPG

[typeO]

yep

if anyone knows about the scout ssii baja cruiser ( i found one)please email me i have a ton of questions

[bigjeepguy]

the 258 was used as the econo engine in scouts, it used a tranny w/ amc bolt pattern, which is the same between the 360, 401, 304, etc. the v-8's were not an option, and with the six you got a dana 30 front instead of a 44 front like a v-8 rigs, the ssII scouts rule, the had no doors, only fiberglass inserts to smooth out the look, stripped down interior, no top, and were available with I think the 345, and 392, and you choice of tf-727, or granny low four speed. Oh yeah, dana 20 t-case, except in 1980, they used a dana 300.

[This message has been edited by bigjeepguy (edited June 24, 2001).]

[Crazy_Jeepman]

WOW bigjeepguy there was a bunch-o-info Thanks I will now be looking at the IH rigs for parts and such.

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1970 Wagoneer! Dauntless 350/Th 400/D20/44s. Posi In My Rear. Currently Getting A Frame Off Restore, And a Few Mods. The To Do List Is Longer Than The Wagoneer Is!!!!
http://images.andale.com/f2/116/106/4651773/990532060948_sigjeep.JPG

[typeO]

wow... your the man im on my knees thanking you... that is the info i needed

thank you sir

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http://photos.yahoo.com/typeotypeo.

90 Grand Wagoneer "Bucho"
360 all stock (gone to momma in-laws) :(

75 Wagoneer "Kryptonite"
not running yet
working on installing 360 into a 401 hole

98 Dodge Ram quad cab 2x4
360

94 dodge ram swb 2x4
360 (167k)
http://www.virtue.nu/yazahx/rand/TypeO.jpg

[francis higgins]

Did IH really use a AMC 401, or was it their own 404? They did produce a 404, but it may have only been used in the bigger trucks. It was actually a very strong engine, and *I think* based on the same block etc. as the 345/392. Any ideas?

[typeO]

here is the info that started my thinking?

quoted"Absolutely INCORRECT! The IH V-304 and the AMC V-304 are vastly different motors.
IH used the AMC I-6 (232 and 258 cid) in the Scout lines for a brief while. And the AMC 401 V-8 was used in some of the later pickups and Travelalls."????


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http://photos.yahoo.com/typeotypeo.
cut and paste this maybe "http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/typeotypeo/lst?.dir=/&.src=ph&.view=t"
90 Grand Wagoneer "Bucho" 360 all stock (gone to momma in-laws) :(
got it back - got the death knock, leaks oil, headliner is fallen, but looks nice

75 Wagoneer "Kryptonite" not running yet
working on installing 360 into a 401 hole

98 Dodge Ram quad cab 2x4 360 traded in on durango 4x4 with 319 i think maybe 318

94 dodge ram swb 2x4 360 (167k)
http://www.virtue.nu/yazahx/rand/TypeO.jpg

[porchpiggy]

My Dad was into IH, and it's been a while back, but I tried to dig up some old info along with my memory to try to be accurate. Things I know for sure: the 401 was the AMC/Jeep motor (my uncle had one in a travelall) with a tourgeflite behind it. IH used 727's after about 1972, some Borg-Warner thing for auto before. The 6's were AMC/Jeep and where available with the 727, a manual 3spd., and the T18. Transfer cases where D-18 and D20 in the scout (300 in 1980) and the 1/2 tons and bigger used (some) NP205's. I can't find anything that suggests the IH v-8's had the same pattern as the AMC/Jeep, but I do know the 266/304/345/392 where all the same. The 196 4cyl was a slant four that was half a 392, and shared a lot of the parts. The coolest thing about the IH's was they offered a 5spd in 1/2 ton and up. it was T-34, T-35, T-36. They had different gear ratio's, (one was 7.16 first gear) and two were granny low and close ratio on the next four with a 1:1 fifth. One had a granny low, next three like a three spd, and fifth was a .80 overdrive( The T-36, I think). But they were not available behind the 6cyl. IH, like AMC/Jeep, used a lot of other manufacturers parts, but they assigned their own part #'s to it, making it difficult to decipher. BTW the IH v-8's where heavy, at over 700lbs with accesories. They also were low RPM high tourque engines with factory recomendations of not exceeding 3800 RPM for any length of time. My Dad's 345 with a 2bbl holley made 308ft/lbs tourque at 2400 RPM.

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Porchpiggy
"To old and slow to run with the Bigpiggys"
88 GW and 79 "burban

[Kaiser Volfe]

Just thought I would chime in.

Cherokee Matt, besides the short wheel base and the sometimes hard to find parts, the IH scouts are pretty good. They were designed as a short wheel base vehicle, like the CJ and the lot. They also had the Travelalls and pickup line to give a wide variety. Least of all are the scouts lacking in reliablity, they are built pretty heavy, especially my favorite the Series 80. The scouts used alot of parts used on the heavier vehicles.


Porchpiggy, The T-34 is the overdrive 5 speed. I noticed you didn't say anything about the T-19, which is a good alternative to a T-18.

[typeO]

all the info for not...
the reason why i was asking .. i could have bought a baja cruiser 77' -79' with a box frame.. only 9k to 4k made.. it was only the body and the guy was "giving" the drive train (parts vechile rust bucket) for 1k... was trying to decided if it was worth that or not.. the ssii series looked apealling at first.. but i just dont know...
called today.. body only went for 450

[This message has been edited by typeO (edited June 25, 2001).]

[UnkleMunky]

I can't add a whole lot to what's already been mentioned....but I've always kind aliked the IH rigs...particularly the T-alls. Here's the main binder site....lots of good info there, including a FAQ, which, if I recall correctly answers many of the engine/driveline questions discussed here already.
http://www.binderbulletin.org/

PS....anybody know of a really cool T-all or IH pickup, preferably with an AMC 258 in it, at a good price...don't hesitate to let me know! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif Love them ugly trucks! http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif

Take care....


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Michael(UnkleMunky)
'78 J10: 258, 4 speed, longbed, topper
'76 J10: Honcho, 360, TH400/QT
'89 Plymouth Reliant(PluggerMobile)
J-Pages(some of my auto pages) (http://www.eskie.net/superior/j-pages/index.htm)
unklemunky@eskie.net

[scotty]

IH used the 727 with the d20 and d300.both shared the typical d20 "texas" pattern and both used an input gear wit 23 internal splines. the scout 20 is swappale into a jeep,you just need to use the jeep input gear as most jeep d20 applications are 6 spline. the d300 is swappable with a d20 into a jeep IF the magic 6 spline input gear can be found from a t14 or t19 with a d300. as wa mentioned the d300 was used in scouts only in 1980,and thus are very rare.

the scout d20 does have a shift tower similar to the d300(currie twin stick will bolt on,as a matter of fact http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/smile.gif )instead of the goofy control box on a pole that jeep uses.

i have looked at IH 727s and it definately looks like one would bolt right to an amc engine.

there are alot of different offroad situations,some of which certain wheelbases are betterthan others.a properly equipped scout does very well in the woods.i love my GW,but hafta admit that scouts are cool. id definately disagree bout a scout being an inferior offroad vehicle.
not much else to say-everyone else has given alot of good info.

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scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/t18/spicer 18 with pto/widetrac offset d44s/rear discs
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

vw turing brake,BIG tow truck PTO winch and full roll cage install very soon
4.0 aquired-4.5L stroker someday...

now we can do some 'wheelin!

[jeepbob]

The 266/304/345/392 motors did not use the same bell housing pattern as the AMC motors. The IH motors had a big truck std bolt pattern, just like big rig diesels. The AMC 401 was used in 74 and 75 in 100 series pickups and travelalls. The 5spd w/granny and od was available behind either the 232 or 258 by special order The AMC 401 was called the V400. My dad sold binders in the 70's and this info came from his 8" thick truck spec/option/sales binder. If you had the money IHC would build anything you wanted except for a 1 ton crew cab long bed with the extended camper special in 4WD because they could not get the D60 frt axle certified to haul enough weight. They would build it in 2WD though. (He had a customer that wanted one in 4wd) Those things had like a 178" wheelbase.

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 broken power lok/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/Lincoln ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[porchpiggy]

The only thing I'm left wondering then, is did IH use two different 727's, one for the AMC/Jeep engines, and another for the IH engines. How did they work that out?
I found a mid 60's 1/4 cab scout that looks solid for a $1000/offer, but my better half says I have too many trucks already, blahblahblah, I do have to admit though, with three teenagers driving I am running out of parking space.

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Porchpiggy
"To old and slow to run with the Bigpiggys"
88 GW and 79 "burban

[Slippery]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crazy_Jeepman:
I will now be looking at the IH rigs for parts and such.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

C_J, I may be in touch with you sometime in the future; I want to go either the Scout, CJ, or early Bronco route with my Blazer, and you seem to have better luck finding this stuff than I do.

I'm not looking to build anything *quite* as hardcore as scotty's rig, but I need something a little more stout than the T-4/NP231/IFS/7.5" 10-bolt setup the factory blindly installed. (Same people who built my Lumina...hmmm...)

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Jason K.
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/e46e6dee/bc/My+Photos/Festiva.jpg?bcw0GX7Ax3rIxilV
'88 Ford Festiva
40mpg work car
Cost $150, paid for itself already
-----------------------------
'90 Chevy Lumina
Biggest POS in the 115-year history of the automobile
4 cylinders, less than adequate for a car half its size
Crappy rear disc brakes, $19M class-action lawsuit settled
------------------------------
Some other junk not worth mentioning

[This message has been edited by Slippery (edited June 26, 2001).]

[Kaiser Volfe]

Jeepbob, those T-34 are really heavy duty, can't imagine one behind a 232 or 258. I had a hard enough time finding one for my Travelall which is now sporting rebuilt IH 549. It would be an great tranny to have but must be near impossible to find one with the Jeep pattern bellhousing. Most I have seen are behind the 392 and such with that odd ball IH bellhousing. The T-34 option cost more than an automatic transmission when new so don't think it was to popular. If some one could get a hold of the bellhousing that works with the Jeep motor they could also use a T-35 or 36 from a school bus or loadstar.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

yea Slippery I have a few in my mind I will be checking out soon and these would be as you mentioned, CJ, old Broncos and CJs bodies pretty much gone though


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1970 Wagoneer! Dauntless 350/Th 400/D20/44s. Posi In My Rear. Currently Getting A Frame Off Restore, And a Few Mods. The To Do List Is Longer Than The Wagoneer Is!!!!
http://images.andale.com/f2/116/106/4651773/990532060948_sigjeep.JPG

[jeepbob]

The Peace Corps used the 232/T34 combo in south east Asia (Viet Nam) and there were a few built that they never took delivery on. The Springfield Ambulance Co used to have several brand new travelall's sitting on thier lot in the late 70's. I bought one for a really stupidly low price ($2000) but the big problem was that they had the heater delete option. I had to go to the bone yard to get a heater for my new truck. I sold the travelall after many years of use, but wish I hadn't now.

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65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 broken power lok/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/Lincoln ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[<meuniermechanic2>]

ih vs. jeep...hands down the scouts win. i owned a bone stock 1976 scout 2 with 345 and 727 it had d44. i ran 33inch super swampers and raced it at every mud race i could get to.nothing ever stopped this rig and it beat any stock truck around.i would trade my 1983 wag limited for a scout in a heart beat. yeah, the parts are alittle hard to find, but like any classic it is worth the effort and no the 727 only bolted to scout engines not amc, the 304,345,392 engines had there own bolt pattern...

[<ColeTrickle>]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by &lt;meuniermechanic2&gt;:
ih vs. jeep...hands down the scouts win. i owned a bone stock 1976 scout 2 with 345 and 727 it had d44. i ran 33inch super swampers and raced it at every mud race i could get to.nothing ever stopped this rig and it beat any stock truck around.i would trade my 1983 wag limited for a scout in a heart beat. yeah, the parts are alittle hard to find, but like any classic it is worth the effort and no the 727 only bolted to scout engines not amc, the 304,345,392 engines had there own bolt pattern...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is this? Give your Wag to a real Jeep man, Bud!

[Rande]

Apples and oranges guys! Two different vehicles for two different uses.
I got one of each (though my FSJ is a pickup).
Scout has good points and bad points.
FSJ has good points and bad points.
Bad points about Scout are: limited parts availability, rust prone body, old technology used for too many years, mixed and matched equipment from different manufacturers...wait a minute...that's the FSJ list too! ;)