[newbie] The tap that cured the "tak/click" starter noise

[GED]

Hi all,

Recently got a Grand Wagoneer 1989 looking stock.
It worked well for two weeks, and now, I'm beginning to have a starter problem.

I would turn the key, I can hear a "tak" noise, but then nothing, engine is not even cranking / moving.

I can do this three/four/five times in a row,
and suddenly the next try, the engine starts cranking and starts.

Battery voltage gauge shows 14 while engine is running, and shows 12.2 when no engine.

What are your advices ?

Thanks,

[ June 11, 2002, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: ged ]

[Sitting Bull]

Sounds like you need to check your connections at the starter and the ignition switch. I'd just take a test light at the starter lead and see if it's getting juice when the switch is turned.

If it's not, test light the ignition switch, are you sending power?

But if you are getting juice to it and it's not turning over, time for a new starter. Most starter problems are with the bendix spring, and thats not the problem your having, though the "tak" sound is not promising. Last I checked starters were 60-80 bucks.

Play around with it and let us know the results, and welcome to the list!!!

[ June 07, 2002: Message edited by: Sitting Bull ]</p>

[andy d]

hmmmn, i would try the easy (cheap) stuff 1st. this involves taking a close look at the cables and connections going from the battery to the starter. look for loose or corroded stuff. also check the ground from the engine to the body down by the right motor mt. next would be jumping the relay to prove it out. if that doesnt improve the situation then it may be the starter. btw, from your description, it sounds like a loose connection. good luck.

[GED]

Well, could not go to work this morning.
Tried about twenty times, but the jeep would not start.
Turn the key, and I just hear that tak / click sound, but no cranking.
The engine is not moving at all.

I used the jeep all over the week-end, and never did it do on saturday/sunday what it did this morning.

All other electrical stuff is fine. Will have to go down under the motor to see what's happening.
(I'm not exactly what I would call a mechanic ;)
but I'll try and see what I can do.

[Chris Mims]

I replaced my starter with one from AutoZone ($69 with a $30 core charge) - seemed to take care of my "dead battery" sound - then I realized I also needed a new battery (even though the Interstate was showing a good charge)! Hope it is something minor, but if you need a new starter it is not that hard to replace (just make sure you disconnect the batt before replacing!)

[johnwaynejeep]

Even if you find the problem I would go ahead and fix the whole starting system. Get a new solenoid if you have an external one(although I believe yours is in the starter from what I've seen on other posts reguarding the 89 you'd have to consult others on this), get new battery cables and new starter cables and a new battery. Clean up all the connections and make sure everything is clean and new. You'd be surprised how much juice is lost through bad connections and corroded cables. A little loss from this cable and a little loss from this corroded connection and suddenly your Jeeps not starting but you have a perfectly good battery

[Dude23455]

Originally posted by johnwaynejeep:
(although I believe yours is in the starter from what I've seen on other posts reguarding the 89 you'd have to consult others on this) the 89's silinoid is attached to the starter, at least it was on my 89.

check your battery connections real good, it sounds like its just a loose wire to me, that tak sound is all to familiar.

Cullen

[River Beast]

Prior to replacing everything... remove and clean all your connections...

Once you get the 'TAK' sound again... hit the side of the starter with a hammer to see if that helps... (no joke) this will tell you if the starter is going out... I had a Chevy like that. Once I hit it a few times... she cranked right over.

[PhilSine]

Do yourself a favor and replace the whole electrical system. I got my 77 about 9 months ago and the first thing I did after changing the fluids and thermostat was to replace anything electrical. Plugs, wires, starter, solenoid, cap, rotor, alternator (upgraded to a 135 amp), regulator, starter solenoid (part of the starter in your case), all new. I now know when it was all replaced and can now immediately eliminate anything electrical from basic engine troubleshooting. Total cost of all parts was around $200. Knock about $50 off from that if you go with a stock alternator. The best part is, you can do it a piece at a time over about 1 1/2 months. If you plan on keeping the vehicle for the long haul, you may want to invest in this type of security. Another benefit is that you can keep all the removed components handy for spares providing they worked when you removed them.

[PhilSine]

Ammendment......

Everything electrical related to the engine compartment components. I did not replace any wiring with the exception or the plug and distributor wires.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

There is a rectangle box (small) on the passenger fender. This is the starter relay, can also be your problem, as it is a source of many problems including unwanted BBQ'S!!! :mad: There will be a wire that runs down to the starter from this box, can't be certain I want to say green. Find this wire, it runs to the solenoid unplug it from the relay and use a Jumper wire from the positive post on the battery and put wire to the one you trace from the solenoid. Caution it may turn engine over even with key off IT SHOULD. If it turns over then most likely the starter relay is bad on the fender, if it does not turn over it will be the solenoid on the starter or a bad connection at the solenoid. ;)

[GED]

Originally posted by Todd / River Beast:
Once you get the 'TAK' sound again... hit the side of the starter with a hammer to see if that helps...After trying four times (Mon morning, evening, Tue morning, evening) to start the Jeep with only that **** "tak / click" sound, finally, I had time to grab a hammer and crawl under my abandonned Jeep.
Did a few little taps with the hammer all over the starter, went back on the driver seat, turned the key, and... the Jeep fired right away ! :D

THANKS TODD / RIVER BEAST !!!

Now, I've safely backed my Jeep from the driveway into the garage, and I'm looking for a starter.
Any chances anybody would know a cheap but reliable place where to buy a starter in Milpitas/Fremont, CA ?
The local Kragen quoted me $139 + $50 core for a remanufactured one !

I've bought the Haynes & the Chilton, and will attempt this week-end for the first time in my life to change a starter. I'm a bit concerned as the Haynes says that you have to jack up the car with jackstands.

Thanks Guys !

[Midnightwagon]

you really shouldnt have to jack it up it may be easierbeing lower

[PhilSine]

I replaced mine 4 months ago & didn't have to jack it up. If all is stock and you are an average sized person you may want to jack it up for crawling comfort. I have slightly bigger tires and a decent suspension so I can fit somewhat comfortably. It's a pain in the *** trying to squeeze that ****ed starter out though. Just like a Rubik's Cube.....

Twist here, turn there, rotate the other way and you're done.

[PhilSine]

I didn't realize that A S S or D A M N are taboo here. Oh well. It's a pain in the but at any rate. Also, if you have an air ratchet, here is a good place for it. If not, now is a good time to get one.

[Sitting Bull]

You'll find replacing the starter a very simple job. Great for a beginning mechanic to get his hands dirty. I'm sure the Hanes manual goes over it, but in case it doesn't help...

1) Unhook the positive connection on the battery. Put it somewhere there is no chance of it flopping back and pinging the positive terminal.

2) Remove the wire connection from the starter. I beleive there is only the main feed going to it from the solenoid (mounted on the inner fender). Later wags may have more?, though I doubt it.

3) There are two bolts that hold the starter in, one on top and one on bottom. Remove those bolts, noting their orientation. Once the bolts are removed, the starter will literally fall right off, so be careful. You'll know when you get a new one exactly how heavy it is. That sucker would really leave a knot :eek: !

4) Take the new starter and put it in the hole, and put both bolts in. When you are putting the bolts in, make sure you get some thread to bite before you turn around for your wrench, or like I said before, ouch!

5) Hook up the electrical connection, making sure to leave the positive feed for the battery last.

6) Jump in and crank her up, and smile from ear to ear, you just fixed your own Jeep and saved yourself about 100 bucks! Save the hundred bucks for a new solenoid and ignition module in the future.

As for jacking it up, like everyone said, it's all personal preference and much of a beer gut you have.

[ironroad29]

yea the starters toast well not really the starter but the 89and up had a gear redution starter ,there are two contacts inside the soinoid and a metel disc on a spring and what happens is when you turn the starter switch the disc get pulled twards the contacts and over time the arcing will eat away wt the contacts and then the disc doesn't have enough travel to touch both contacts and because those are the conection from the battery to the starter motor itself this is why the starter clicks but doesn't turn over solinoid is mostly always the prob but thats a really good price for the started being what it is and will last a long time .gear redution is the way to go ,and also i thing that us 88 and pror guys can use em too if i remember snakeeyes had a post on it

[steven79]

One little note here, ALWAYS REMOVE THE NEGITVE BATTERY CABLE FIRST, that way if you happin to toch the body doing it it wont bite you. ;)

[River Beast]

You're welcome!!!

Rule of thumb:

Never force ANYTHING... always use a bigger hammer! :D ;)

[desert_freak]

While your at it replace the positive and negative cables while your at it and CLEAN as in fresh metal clean all contacts. I once diagnosed a bad starter only to find out my cables which looked almost new were the culpret. Don't forget brush up the battery contacts as well.

Just wanted to reinforce the need for GOOD electrical connections. I once had a starter switch too that gave me similar problems and finally figured out it was the switch not the solenoid, even though tapping teh starter seemed to help sometimes, just coincidental it turned out. Just another thing to check for you guys that will be pulling this thread out of the archive down the road.

P.J.

[GED]

Hi All,

Just wanted to let you that my Jeep now has a new starter. I managed to do it all by myself.

Had to drop the job a few times:
- The 2-ton jack was way too small
The 3-ton jack (range up to 19") did it.
Was a bit concerned about sliding under 4500 lbs ;)
I was missing one wrench, and then it turned that I had to pull one bolt using metric 16mm wrench (5/8 was too big, and 9/16 was too small)

Now that I've done the job, I suscribe to the idea of get CLEAN connections, up to the point that I wonder if I really needed a new starter ?
In fact, the main wire was tight on my previous starter without using the nut meant for that, but by using other nut on top of that, and everything was corroded. Sandpaper would not even clean. I had to use file to get them metal-shiny.

Now, my GWag starts almost right away (at least, much better than previously). and I'm not as much scared at the idea of crawling under the hood and replacing some parts. That was a real good job for starters. ;) [starter for starters].

The parts store could not find any battery cable for a '89 GWag so I ended up cleaning the ends.

Thanks all for your advices !

Now, let's go for that "replace oil sending unit" job ;)