Revolver Shackles Part II

[newbie]

Okay guys, I emailed Andrew, the guy that has the sweet Grand Wag with the revolvers front and rear. He loves them in every aspect. He's using XJ shackles front and rear (with shackle flip in the rear, of course) and he's seen no adverse handling problems after adding the revolvers. According to him, the daily driven rig without trac bars and sway bars handles very well on the street and he's never had a problem with them opening up on him (even during hard braking) He also mentioned that off-road the shackles perform flawlessly and have greatly improved the capabilites of his rockcrawlin' FSJ. He's not taken it to an RTI ramp yet, but he can flex as well as a buddy's TJ which ramps over 1300. Andrew mentioned that the shackles are very well constructed and perfectly suited for a full-sized Jeep. I've asked him if I can post his full reply to my e-mail and as soon as he's given me permission, I'll post it here.

Peace,
Gary

[newbie]

BTW- this guy's got dana 60's front and rear, custom Alcan springs font and rear and a Jasper Built 300-hp 360. <not a trailer queen> You can see his rig HERE! (http://rrr.n3.net/)

[Snakeyes_Tx]

Dude! Body Damage? On a Wag that nice looking! :(

Sacrilige!

[River Beast]

I want to here is tail of the tape... looks like her gets alot of flex with them...hmmmm...2nd thoughts again :D

[blt2krl]

Gary thanks for the info. I had planned to buy a set for my waggy despite what tera flex told me. I'm glad to see my gut feel was right.

[bchesley]

http://imagem.webphotos.iwon.com/1000016009/1000016009_9192001101316PM0.9337885.jpg

[newbie]

Okay guys here's the email I sent Andrew and his response.


>From: gary white <g_white01@altavista.com>
>To: RockJeep44@hotmail.com
>Subject: Revolver Shackles on your rig!
>Date: 15 Oct 2001 06:23:00 -0700
>
>Andrew,
>
I happened upon your rig while doing a search for Revolver shackles. It seems as though you are the first person to try this on a Full-Size jeep. I'm curious as to how they've held up for you and how they act/react on the road and on the trail. (I see that you've got D60's front and rear so I assume you're rig sees some pretty serious trail action) Many of us on the Intl full size jeep assoc. message board have been questioning the use of revolvers, and it's nice to see someone with the balls to actually try it. Please give me some details on how they've worked for you!

BTW: Love the fender trimming on your rig! Very well done!

Thanks,
Gary

From: RockJeep44@hotmail.com
To: g_white01@altavista.com
Subject:Re: Revolver Shackles on your rig!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, thanks a lot for the feedback! I've noticed as well that I seem to be the only guy that runs these shackles on a fullsize, and I hardly seem them on anything to tell you the truth. But, when I saw these shackles in action one time on a YJ I knew I had to have them on my Jeep and I can honestly say they are completely amazing and I've seen not one single drawback yet. Also let me note that I drive my Jeep every single day as well as make a 300 mile trip on the freeway about once a month or so at speeds around 65 mph when I go home from college for visits. But, my Jeep does see it's fair share of hardcore abuse for sure...mainly rockcrawling. First off I run custom built Alcans which are very flex to being with and combined with the revolvers my flex is amazing. I consistently outflex my friends TJ with a 3.5in Rubicon express lift and he flexes a 1300 on a 20 degree ramp. I've never scored mine and his score may be better because of wheelbase issues but my Jeep has more usable travel which is what counts...not the score. Since Teraflex doesn't make a revolver for specifically for a FSJ, I run the XJ rears front and rear in my Wag. This is because this model has a bend in them which allows them to fit and rest perfectly when used on a FSJ. The other models may work but definitely not as well. They bolted right into the front but as you know the rear took a bit of mods but it wasn't hard. I was able to use the stock mount but I had to take a torch to cut some metal away because the stock configuration is for the shackle sticking up and not hanging down like on CJs, YJ, etc. After the metal was cut away to allow the revolver to bolt in I welded in some supports to reinforce the mount since I cut some support away and boom they went right in and have held up to some serious abuse so far. On the road they don't open up at all and I couldn't even tell that I had changed my shackles from stock to tell you the truth. Also I don't run sway-bars or trac-bars so this was quite impressive. The revolvers are EXTREMELY well built and very beefy. The fit and finish was remarkable...they are very weighty and thick. Perfect for a big Jeep. On the trail these things are nothing less than amazing. Not only will they open up for jawdropping droop, they twist which reduces stress on the springs and allows for even more droop because your springs stay in line with the mounts. I believe I've had at least one person comments on how well they perform on every ride that I've been on. I've actually never lifted a tire since I installed them. I only had the revolvers in the front to begin with but I loved them so much I added them into the rear and I love
this setup now even more. If you have any other questions or comments feel free to e-mail me anytime. Later
-Andrew
PS. If you like the front trimming wait till I trim the rear some more.
I'm going home to my shop Oct 23rd to cut the rear wells out more so I can
make room and bolt on my 38.5x16s Mickey Thompson Baja Claws that just came in...

'88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer (Whitefoot) http://rrr.n3.net

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: newbie ]

[newbie]

I don't think Andrew had knowlege of this board before so I gave him the url for this site, so hopefully he'll jump in and be able to answer everyone's questions. I'd recommend against e-mailing him for now (I'd hate to have him bombarded by questions) we should probably just let him follow up on this board!

[rockjeep44]

Hey everyone, I didn't know about this board. I'm a member of the ISFJA list and the CFSJA list so I never really knew about this. I've been reading everyones posts so I set up an account. I saw that Gary aka newbie posted my reply to my e-mail which should be very helpful but I LOVE talking trucks so fire away with any questions you may have. Oh, and here is a link to all of my pics that I have up. You can get to this site from my rrr.n3.net homepage but here is the direct link.
Wheelin Pics (http://www.webphotos.com/list_albums_user.asp?mi=3&smi=2&u=1000016009)
I got an e-mail today requesting pics of my rear shackle reversal so I'll try to take some and get them up on that link within a week. I'll let you guys know. BTW, it's really easy. So...glad to be here...lets talk some trucks.

[rockjeep44]

BTW, this is Andrew. Just in case you didn't know my name rockjeep44. I saw that someone posted a pic of me flexing with a guy in my fender well. I just wanted to add that the revolver was only about a 1/4 open in that picture. Oh and I saw that price was an issue. I got mine for like 160 bucks a pair. They've come down considerably in price but not in quality. BTW, I'm also going to try and ramp my jeep sometime soon if I can find a ramp and when I do I'll post those pics as well. For now here is a direct link to a pic of the best flex shot I've got right now. It's from the front so you can't really tell how much flex I'm getting but if you look at the tire in comparsion to the fenderwell it's well below it. And in this picture the revolver is only about half open so I'm really excited about getting this thing on a ramp and seeing what it can really do!flexing out (http://www.webphotos.com/view_photo.asp?mi=3&smi=2&a=35340&p=706809)

[newbie]

Andrew (Rockjeep) let me be the first to say Welcome Aboard! I'm sure Adam (the site administrator) might want you to do a write-up about the revolver install sometime soon. (If he hasn't hit you up for it already) Thanks again for all the good info and get that bad boy on the ramp soon!!
Also, something that was thrown around on the first "Revolver Shackles" post was the concern about Revolvers somehow hurting traction. It seems like you wheel just as hard if not harder than the rest of us, so give us some insight on how the shackles help you hook up in the nasty stuff.

Thanks again Andrew!!!!

BTW: You should check out our discussion about putting TJ flares on a Wagoneer if you're interested in fitting some massive meats on that beast!

[newbie]

Oh, here's a shortcut to the orig. Revolver Shackle discussion (http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=005870), and a post about installing TJ flares on a G Wag (http://www.ifsja.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=005507)

[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: newbie ]

[River Beast]

Rockjeep44(Andrew),

Nice FSJ and Welcome.... since seeing 'Whitefoot' in action I must say I am intrigued by the tweakability. I have Skyjacker Softride springs and get alot of flex now...Don't hold back.... any cons whatsoever with the Revolvers? I am looking into this quite seriously now since you've "tested" the XJ shackle.

Also what is the open/close length and brand of shocks your using with that much flex? I NEED THEM!!! ;) Are you still using factory shock mounts, or did you fab new ones?

Thanks and Welcome again... we can all learn from each other here, so jump on in!!! :D

[scotty]

welcome to the board,rockjeep44 aka andrew. you certainly have a very nice rig,and from the pics looks like it works well as well smile.gif

you have made an impressive list of mods. the thing that caused my jaw to drop was the fact that youre still using a np 229?! have ya had any trouble with it? any plans on swapping it for somethin else?

allright,lets talk some trucks! :D for along time my suspension was completely stock. im now planning a small lift so give my frnt tires more room,and since i need new springs anyway(broke one in the woods couple weeks ago). i wheeled my rig with new process cases for awhile(a 219,then a 207,and a 208 for a short period) but finally gave up on them and lost the driver side diff in favor of using a dana 300 and now a spicer 18.

future mods include:1)3" lift withchevy springs 2) fix pinion angle 3)full floating 44 4) front traction aid,arb or ox-lock.havent decided which yet. im wanting some revolvers for the front,but thats alittle lower on the list of importance.i never was concerned toom uch bout the weight issue,just suspension geometry. they didnt change your caster did they? i dont really drive mine anymore(no windshield ;) ) so it needs to behave on a towbar.

what other mods are n your future?its always cool to have more members,specially those that appear to be very passionate bout thaking their machines out to play in the woods or on the rocks :cool:

[JeepFreak]

Andrew, what did you front Dana 60 come out of?

[newbie]

RB, I've heard that F250 shock towers are popular for the front, but i'm not sure they'd work for our rigs. Here's a write up about 'em at ColoradoK5 (http://www.coloradok5.com/ranchoreview.shtml) With your fabbing skills, you may be able to rig something up, and i'm thinking that with your body lift, you wouldn't have iterference with the wheel tub.

Jeep Freak,
I think the Drivers drop D60 is from a Ford F350, not sure about the year tho.

[rockjeep44]

Hey guys...lets see where do I start. Well first the traction issue. When I've been in situations with the revolver open and one tire drooped down that tire seems to have just as much weight on it if not more as it would without the revolver. I've never experienced any wheel hop or anything of that nature that would come with there not being any weight pushing down on the tire. So I think I can say with confidence that the revolvers definitely aid in traction. I'm using Rancho 9012 shocks in the front with the stock shock towers and they actually limit my travel just a taaaaddd. The thing is I'm not worried about getting new shocks because right at the point where the 9012s run out of droop is the point at which my front driveshaft binds up. On FSJs the front driveshaft is very short so it can bind in extreme droop situations. If I cared I could have a custom yoke machined to allow for more droop but with my setup I've never lifted a tire and never used that much articulation in a real world trail situation yet. Right now the 9012s work perfectly. Keep in mind that my Jeep isn't as tall as yours Riverbeast as I only used 1in Alcans in the front for my spring over and with that I have a 3in body lift as well. In the rear I use Rancho 9010s with basically stock mounting locations other than I raised the axle tube mounts up some so as not to catch on rocks. The 9010s limit my travel in the rear just a tad as well but again it's hardly noticeable. The 9010s work well in the rear because they are mounted much more inboard than the front shocks which translates into the fact that they can give the same amount of travel as the 9012s because they don't have to travel as great of a distance when one side of the axle droops. And this allows me to have good compression without bottoming out and to be able to use the stock mounts.

[rockjeep44]

Hey Scotty, several people have commented on me still using the 229 and it is indeed kinda my weak link right now. However the way I combat this is by running 1310 u-joints because they have a breaking point close to but not quite reaching the breaking point of my 229 output shaft. Therefore I carry several 1310 joints with me on every ride and you would actually be surprised how well they hold up. I do however blow up about 1 per ride but I've got a spare drive shaft in the jeep already loaded up and ready to bolt in so I don't have to change a u-joint on the trail. Keep in mind that the 1310s arn't weak by any means, I just blow em at 5 grand in a rockgarden or something like that. With my drivetrain if I can't crawl something I just go all out until I blow one and thats why I've been blowing about one per ride. They save my t-case though. I do have plans in about the next couple months to upgrade to 1350 joints in the rear. I'm having a driveshaft built and getting 1350 yokes for my Dana 60 and 229. No one makes a 1350 yoke specifically for the 229 but I'm almost certain one off a 205 will fit so thats what I'm going to use. After that I'm sure I will probably detonate my t-case on the trail but when it happens I'll happily tow it out knowing that I get to do another upgrade...atlas II here I come!!! BTW, the revolvers didn't change anything about my truck except they lifted it about a 1/4 of an inch if at all.

[rockjeep44]

I keep thinking of things after I make a post...to answer one question my frontend came out of a '96 F350 which makes is a high pinion Dana 60 and the rearend came out of a '79 F350 which makes it a Dana 60 HD.

[JeepFreak]

Andrew did you have to relocate the perches? I think the Chevy's had axles that would bolt right in cause the perches are an exact match. Just wondering if that was the case with the Ford axle. Since I run a Quadra Trac I am looking at either a t-case swap or locating a front 60 from a Chevy. Thanks. I think BobBarry will need to add you to his WILD page based soley on your axles! smile.gif. Rig looks awesome man.

[newbie]

Andrew,

Just wondering if while you're taking pics of the rear shackle flip you did if you could snap a few of the front revolvers. I'm interested to see how snugly they fit. Also, if you wanna check out some serious body mods, check out scotty's rig.

[River Beast]

Thanks Andrew....good info on the Rancho's.... but I still think I will need longer ones. When I get around to it... I will be doing mods for shock relocations (again) in front and rear and may now wait till I get the revolvers to fab them

[newbie]

Dang RB, revolvers on that tank...yikes!! You've gotta stop sometime and let everyone else catch up! :D

[scotty]

yes,the 205 yoke should fit. my friend is using a 229 yoke(so he can use a CV) on his 205.

do you want to stick with a slushbox? your rig would be a great candidate for a ford np435/205 swap :cool:

[rockjeep44]

I had to relocate the perches on my Dana 60s...they didn't line up. Wasn't hard though. Just a few measurements took care of it. In the front I had to move my spring hangers out from under the frame and weld them to the side of the frame so everything would line up...kinda like the same thing you would have to do to a CJ going fullwidth. I'm sticking with my slushbox. I love it, plus it's beefed to hell and back with B&M products. It's perfect for what I do. It'll crawl my rig pretty darn well but here on the east coast we see wet muddy rocks pretty much all the time and tire speed, momentum, and horsepower is the key to rockcrawling around here so the auto is perfect. Oh and were can I see some pictures of your rig Scotty.

[Snakeyes_Tx]

Andrew, if you haven't been told about this, you can find us on chatnet servers on IRC right now.

Currently we're hitting eu.chatnet.org with success. #FSJ is the room name.

If you need the program, just go to www.mirc.com (http://www.mirc.com)

[scotty]

you can see some older pics at
http://pacifico.off-road.com/~wagoneer/wild/scott_probert/

they are with my old 258 and carter carb,and pre t18/roll cage/nerf bars/flat black body/and pre large tow truck pto winch.also pre rear discs and offset widetrac 44s.it has undergone alot of change in last few months smile.gif

will have some updated driveline pics soon.

i used a slushbox for quite awhile.main reason i swapped it out is that i love the water too much. even with a relocated vent,and gm locking dipstick,i filled it with water several times. now that im getting used to the t18,i love thr granny gear and i feel like ive got alot more control over things than i had with the 904.i can idle down most hills without even touching the brakes smile.gif and i can crawl over/up most obstacles with no or very light throttle.and i no longer carry a whole case of spare tranny fl;uid :D just 1 qt for the power steering ;) itmakes me prettyhappy eveyting lese now takes gear oil...

[rockjeep44]

Hey guys...I took a roll of 24 pics today of my shackle setup and got them developed. So hopefully I'll have them scanned and posted in a couple days. Definitely by Monday I'd say. I'll let ya know. :D

[newbie]

You RAWK, Andrew!

[newbie]

...And speaking of IRC, where the heck has everyone been lately????? ~I guess that's another rant alltogether. :(