Different T176s?

[UnkleMunky]

Maybe some of you tranny experts can help me out here. Have a T176(4 speed)- stock tranny- in the '83 J10 with 2.73 axles. I've located a 4 speed behind a 258 in an '81 wag in a local yard(lockouts, so should be a 208 behind it). I was figuring they'd be the same, but ran across some more info on the gear ratios in The T-17x trannies and thought I'd offer this one to the forum and see if anyone can tell me more on these.

I'd heard of the T176, T177, T178 or whatever and that they had different ratios, but I figured ALL of the T-17xs in the SJs would be T176 and would have same 1st gear. I'd assumed ALL were 4.03:1, but ran across some info that said an '83 Wag/Cherry would have 3.52:1. ARGH! That isn't a whole lot better than the 3:1 in my T15. Being this truck has a plow on it and I would like as low of gearing as possible in the tranny, the 4.03:1 is quite important if I'm gonna just replace stock.

Otherwise, I might start looking for the NP435/NP205(or208) from a Ford instead.....I like that gearing better, I know, but it's more work to get something non-stock in there.

So, does anybody know if wag/cherry T17xs were 4.03:1 or 3.52:1 or 3.82:1 or any other combination? I was thinking only the CJs used the higher gearing, but could I be wrong? Maybe J-trucks used different than wag/cherries? Or, is it possible I might have a 3.xx:1 myself?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks....

[mtn goat]

on the other hand, is it possable to put different(taller gears in a tranny like this)

[Panther]

So, does anybody know if wag/cherry T17xs were 4.03:1 or 3.52:1 or 3.82:1 or any other combination?Hey Michael, it was discussed on here once and I'm not sure how the 176, 177, 178 goes but the 3.82 gearing was behind the 258 and the 3.52 for the 360. So for me, 3.52 was NOT cuttin it. That's why I went with the T18, the 2nd gear (3.02) is very close to the first (3.52) in the T176.
Lee

[UnkleMunky]

Originally posted by mtn goat:
on the other hand, is it possable to put different(taller gears in a tranny like this)Hmmm......might be possible...but never heard of it. I'm also not interested in changing axle ratio...I want the piddly 2.73, it seems to cruise the highway just super with those, and I don't want to ditch mpg in favor of a little power.

On the issue of the different ratios, here's what Jeeptech has to say:
http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/trans/t176.html
T-176 3.52 2.27 1.46 1.00 3.52
T-177 3.82 2.29 1.46 1.00 3.82
T-178 3.00 2.08 1.47 1.00 3.01

It mostly concentrates on CJs there and gives them the T176, though "other Jeep trucks" used it too.....and T177, T178 were non-CJs(hmmm....SJs?).

In my Krause 4x4 book, it says:
80 CJs: T176 with 3.52:1
81-86 CJs: T176 with 3.82:1
(doesn't differentiate between engines)

For J-trucks:
80 Js- 3.52:1
81 Js with 258- 3.52:1
81 Js with 360- 3.82:1
(axle ratio also dropped to 2.73 with that year as standard)
81-85 Js- just says a Warner 4 speed with 4.03:1
86-87 Js- with 258s: 3.82:1
86-87 Js- with 360s- 3.52:1

That latter 86-87 combination sounds most sensible there.

For Wags/Cherries in 80-83 vintage:
80-83 models- T176 with 3.52:1
(doesn't differentiate for engines or any other changes)

I've found other mistakes in Krause(they note T18s with 4.02s, even in '76-79 years, for J-trucks, and I KNOW mine is lower than that in the '78; yet, they get it right on the CJs...go figure....). Plus, Jeeptech(ORC) has been known to not get it perfect either....then again, I don't expect anyone to get it perfect.

Anyway.....so the 4.03:1 may be a non-existent combination? Maybe I've really got a 3.52 or 3.82 in the 83 then?

Lee....do you remember how long ago this was discussed? Link to that/those thread(s)? I'll do a search, but if you recall offhand, that'd be super.

Just don't wanna drop in a wimpy geared tranny if that's all I can get. I'd rather go out for the granny 4 if I can find one. Otherwise, might opt for putting the plow on the '79 for the time being.....hmmm.....anyway, any more input on this is definitely appreciated. Thanks....

[Sycho15]

Look up some info on the AX-15 used in '90-99 YJs, TJs, MJs, and XJs. It's a 5-speed manual that will bolt up between your 258 and NP-208 and it's every bit as strong as the T-176, if not stronger.

[UnkleMunky]

AX-15 looks like ratios are same range as a T176, only with an overdrive...
AX-15 3.83 2.33 1.44 1.00 0.79 4.22

Probably one in a YJ with a 258 would mate right up, indeed. Input and output shafts/splines sound very similar to the T176s. Two issues on this tranny though- 1) it isn't really any gain over the T176(except OD) so not any advantage versus a T176. 2) The OD would probably be a poor add-on to a rig that already has 2.73 axles! smile.gif Probably wouldn't utilize that extra gear at all. Thus, overall, it's a good idea.....would probably mate up, and if I found one dirt cheap, yeh, could consider it, but no real gain over what stock replacement would be.

BTW, Lee....I think I found those threads on past discussion on this issue. I'm going to start looking into the Ford tranny/t-case options and see what goes there. Sounding like I'd be stuck with 3.5 or 3.8:1 with another T176, which is a fair amount worse than the 4:1 I was thinking it was. Oh well, eh! :? Will see where this goes, but right now, not as fond of a mere replacement as I was before.....not with a plow on this thing!

Thanks for the input.....

[Panther]

Hey Michael,
I have no idea when the post subject was were someone said the ratio was per motor and I'm usually blabbing away at most of these t176, t18 threads....
I would say that it sounds like the true information is hard to come by, especially for FSJ.
Off-road.com has a number of errors on there techical tranny pages for FSJ so you can't always go by what they say. Also, I find it hard to believe that the ratios would change that much during the years 80-87 in the J10. It just doesn't make much sense that in 81 the 258 has 3.52 and 360 has 3.82 and then 86-87 it's the opposite. Granted jeep did some strange things but these years were very limited production and I would think more effort went to developing new jeeps as these were being phased out then changing little things like ratios every year.
Sorry, done with my tangent but good luck and I'll help in anyway i can...
Lee

[Sycho15]

Ah, but you didn't want to change axle gearing because of it's usefulness on the highway, right?

With an AX-15 you could re-gear the axles to 3.54:1, or maybe even 3.73:1, and then get some good use out of the overdrive.

Otherwise... keep looking for a Ford T-18/NP-208 (or similar) combo and use your T-176 bellhousing to mate it up. I'm not sure what problems you might have with the input shaft length though....