SOA Quick Question

[Damage, Inc.]

Is there an advantage to putting the front springs over the axle? (Aside from lift...)

[tuck]

yup

[CowKiller]

yup? like what then

[tuck]

1) Cadillac-like ride
2) Good flexibility, articulation
3) No need to buy new springs
4) Improved ground clearance since leafs go on top
5) Chicks dig it

[Jake_S]

When you put the springs over the axle you gain ground clearence, because the springs are on top instead of hanging below. You get to keep a semi-stock ride(depends on the shocks you choose), and it should flex very well, since the springs won't have a lot of arch compared to a standard spring under lift.
I could be wrong, if I am please enlighten me, which I'm sure RB will. :D
Jake_S

[ July 30, 2002, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Jake_S ]

[porkchop]

Jake you are correct. It gives you lift flex and the ability to run larger tires :D .

[Tad]

Chicks dig it Wish someone would have told me this sooner. :(

[Tourettes]

Tucks reason #5 is enuff for me! :D
Ill be under my rig if you need me! ;)

[Damage, Inc.]

Okay, these are the things I suspected. But, do you really get better articulation with SOA?

[River Beast]

Originally posted by Damage, Inc.:
Okay, these are the things I suspected. But, do you really get better articulation with SOA?YUP.. ;)

more room to stuff the tires!

[MtnNate]

PLUS!!! you retain the soft factory spring rate which also will give you more flex. Also the flatter the spring pack the more flex is available both ways.

[illegalFSJ]

OK, so now the SOA sounds like the answer to all our prayers; but there must be some drawbacks. Maybe something along the lines of stability? I don't know, but I'd like to hear some of the negative aspacts to get a better view of this modification.

[Agent Orange]

Yep, stability is an issue with steering. Since you are lifting the truck 7" and can only get a pitman arm for a 4" lift then your drag link is at an angle. This causes bump steer issues. Some people have it worse than others. To reduce the effects of bump steer you should run double steering stablizers and make sure that all of your spring bushings are in good condition. In order to cure bump steer you will need to move the drag link above the springs with hi steer or cross over steering. Go to Riverbeast's site for more info. If you are only going to run 35" tires, go with a 4" lift kit.

[ July 31, 2002, 06:25 AM: Message edited by: Agent Orange ]

[tuck]

there was a little debate at pirate4x4.com about whether or not SOA flexes better than SUA for any reason other than creating more room in the wheelwells. Not sure.

But SOA does provide a good 5-6" of lift that will make room for the tires to stuff, plus the springs are so flat that they still have lots of droop, which is what rockcrawlers are into.

Certainly stability and steering are going to be issues. That's a given with 6" of lift.

Steering can be countered with a dropped pitman arm and probably be okay, but crossover steering is the superior setup.

Stability can be tolerated, but if you're getting really tipsy wider wheels, tires, axles will be in order.

If you want to go up about 6" and are contemplating lift springs, I would suggest SOA. It isn't a hands down winner, but in my book, it makes the most sense and it works the best. Plus, chicks dig it. :D

[1974 Wagoneer]

I may be wrong, because I have not done mine YET. But it appears to me that I will also be improving my approach angle, not only with bigger tires but by moving the spring pack out of the way some.

p.s. to Porkchop, any progress on that rear post drop setup yet?

[River Beast]

With ANY lift stability is affected due to increase in COG (Center of Gravity) The lower you are the more stable you are... something has to give...

If you lift it...offset the COG it with a wider stance... this is the one of the reasons you see small lifted Jeeps with 60's (besides strength).

The rollover point will change with any lift due to the weight contributing to COG.

I haven't found my rollover point yet... I'm happy!!! :D

[Damage, Inc.]

Alright!! This is AWESOME information. Wish me luck on the SOA...

[tuck]

Good luck, you'll love it. Just make sure you do it right, don't cut corners to save money.

I didn't know there was a certain rollover point, I guess that was when my door hit the rock huh? I just kept driving... gotta love that motorcraft carb. :D

[Hump]

I'm going with tuck here. I don't think you have any more flex than with a stock sua. You do however have more room in your wheel wells for the tires to go.

I tried to test mine out (J20) with a floor jack. I only got the drives side wheel of the ground 5 or 6" before the whole front of the truck came off the ground...pretty pittiful articulation. Probably as bad as ifs. I can't believe I just said that! :eek: Maybe the 3/4 ton springs are just to stiff for that stuff.

[Johnboy]

Originally posted by tuck:
1)
5) Chicks dig itYEAH!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS WHAT WE ALL WNAT IN THE END!!!!!!!!
j

[Damage, Inc.]

Actually, I can realize better articulation. If you put lift springs in, they're arched a particular way, and they'll oppose when compressed. With a flatter spring (less arch), you can/should get better movement.

Does this sound right? Or am I full of s**t?

[1974 Wagoneer]

How are you going to deal with the rear?

[Damage, Inc.]

Custom mounts in rear, similar to RB's setup.

[jode]

Sorry Agent Orange, but I hafta disagree on several accounts...

Originally posted by Agent Orange:

Since you are lifting the truck 7" and can only get a pitman arm for a 4" lift then your drag link is at an angle. This causes bump steer issues.

Yes the DL is at an angle, but it wont necesarily cause bumpsteer...I'm running a 4" lift with stock pitman arm and negligible bumpsteer...if you do 7" lift and then a drop pitman, then that's only 3" lift on the draglink and that is less than I have!

... To reduce the effects of bump steer you should run double steering stablizers...

Forget the dual stabilizers and go with the hy-steer conversion. It'll solve the prollem.

If you are only going to run 35" tires, go with a 4" lift kit.

my 31s rub on a 4" lift! :eek: go with the SOA for 35s...or plan on a LOT of fender cutting.As far as all the talk of a SOA giving a better ride and articulation, I got myself into a huge arguement here by stating exactly that. IMHO a "flat" (as in stock) spring flexes better than an "arched" (lift) spring and for that reason, I think the SOA is a better option. However, there has been a LOT of talk about how the SOA is not as safe as a SUA. On the other hand, if it is bad as some people would have you believe, then why are there so many millions of Chevys and Fords and others runnning around SOA? It can't be THAT bad ;)

One last thing, articulation is gained by changing any combination of a number of things, but when only one things is changed, the results aren't always as hoped...for example, if the rearend of my wag is currently limited (in its articulation) by the length of my shocks, then doing a SOA with the stock shocks is NOT going to increase my articulation...onm the other hand, if the limiting factor was the wheelwell clearance, then the SOA would solve the prollem and articulation should be better. Get it?

[ July 31, 2002, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: jode ]

[River Beast]

Originally posted by Damage, Inc.:
Custom mounts in rear, similar to RB's setup.not on a 74 unless you have box style mounts.... post mount setup is most likely what you have... if so... talk to Porkchop...sorry

[Damage, Inc.]

Yeah, they're post mounts; thanks to tadsal for pointing that out!

I figure it will have to be pretty custom for the rear. A shackle reversal and a custom box. As long as I stay equal distance from the frame as the original posts, I should be alright.

I referended RB's setup because I'll use the same 1/4" x 3.5" box for fab work. smile.gif Watch out RB!! redface.gif

[porkchop]

Originally posted by 1974 Wagoneer:


p.s. to Porkchop, any progress on that rear post drop setup yet?Unfortunenately not :( . I have been having many problems with the wag. There was a time when I was not sure if I was going to make it to Ouray. So I have been getting all the problems fixed. I will however start on the production mounts as soon as I move and get settled in my new home. That will be about the middle of October. Sorry about that but bad things came up.

Hump, I can't believe that your front tire only went up 6 inches :eek: ! I tried that with mine and I ran out of floor jack before The tire was all the way to the top. It must be the 3/4 springs.

Petersen's did a good article on this about 6 months ago. They used to very similar CJ-7's. One had SOA the other had a 4 inch lift. The SOA came out on top but not by much. I will have to see if I can find the article when I get home.

[Hump]

PC, I thought I was putting in "better" springs when I swapped in a set from an '84 J-20 with 7 thin leafs. The set that was on there were 3 fat leafs. I gained an inch of spring pack which was an inch of overall lift, so that was cool. I am expecting this thing to ride like a coal wagon though.

When I bought it, it had a 360/727/np208 combo in the bed with a full 70 gal. aux. fuel tank, and I only noticed a half inch difference between that and empty. :eek: I even added another helper spring for 1/2" lift in the rear! :eek: :D This thing is going to be a monster, but I am now questioning off road ability. Guess I'll have to wait until I get my new tranny and tcase under there to find out.