New Rear End???

[sailingjeep]

The clunk in my drivetrain turned in to a bang, and was happening not only while going from park to drive or reverse, but when going down the road and was leaking out the differential where the shaft goes in. I took to a local mechanic which was recommended by my father-n-law. They basically said I need a new rear end. Said they found a used one for $350 and are going to charge me $150 to install it. They are supposed to call me and tell me what they think of the used one when they get it. Whadda ya think?? Talking price, and could I get a new one?, they said they couldn't find anything but this used one.

[sailingjeep]

Oh yeah, AMC 20.

[joe]

$350 is a tad high for a stock M20 bone yard axle but I guess if you need it you need it. Prolly cheaper than finding a $150 one and having it shipped I guess. Just make real sure the donor axle has the same gear ratio as yours or kiss using 4WD good bye.

[River Beast]

The only time you think about replacing an entire axle is if it's bent or broken in any way or you are upgrading....otherwise... your money should be better spent putting new parts in your housing.

Is it just in need of a rebuild with new bearings and such? or does it need a R&P as well....

A R$P set should be around $150 NEW and master install kits usually run $90 for EVERYTHING you need to install.... so $350 for used is INSANE!!!!

New axle bearings are separate and cost under $30 each.

Ask EXACTLY what is needed.... then buy your parts and have them install it... that way you are only giving them $150 (that's what they are charging for the 'install') and they are not 'skimming' off the top of used parts they may only pay $50 for....

This way you know what you are going to have.... NEW not used.

[ October 01, 2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: River Beast ]

[FSJ Thing]

I'd say it's a good price. That's less than what I'm paying to have mine rebuilt, but then again, I'm getting a lock right diff with 5.38 gears. I'm determined to break an axleshaft! In all seriousness, that's not a bad deal from my experience, most everyone will try to get more than $350 for an axle, regardless of the model or condition. I'd jump on it if it were me.

[River Beast]

I paid $150 labor for each axle to bet all new parts....I supplied all the parts.....

[FSJ Thing]

Every time I touched the rear I screwed it up more. I busted 4 lug studs, broke off two bolts holding the diff cover on, broke off the vent tube connector that goes in the housing...then filled it with water(don't ask, I don't know how), so I figured I'd let a shop do it. Since I hadn't ordered the parts yet, I told them to do it. For all I'm having done, I don't think $550 is unreasonable, especially since I'll have someone else to blame when I do break something! Thanks for the shackle flip too Todd, I should have it at least partway installed this afternoon!

[Gladi8r]

Originally posted by -joe:
$350 is a tad high for a stock M20 bone yard axle but I guess if you need it you need it. Prolly cheaper than finding a $150 one and having it shipped I guess. Just make real sure the donor axle has the same gear ratio as yours or kiss using 4WD good bye.He has a 727/229, so if he dont have the same gears he has major problems as this is a full-time x-fer case. Cant even drive it like that because he doesnt have the luxury of using 2WD :(

[River Beast]

Don,

that's another reason I am suggesting to buy the new parts.... getting the right stuff in there makes all the difference in the world...

[sailingjeep]

Thanks for all this quick help.
Can you explain the reason for why the gears have to be the same? Just curious.

[sailingjeep]

Can you give me a source for new everything?

I haven't been able to get by there, so I've been talking to the guys wife over the phone. The $350 is just for the used guts of the housing, not the entire axle! He is going to take a look at it when he gets it and tell me what he thinks of it. I told her I think I could track down all new stuff, they say that it would be more expensive that way.

Thanks!!

[Marc_01]

Are you sure your mechanic is a reliable source? Sounds iffy to me.

If your clunk got progressively worse over a good amount of time, then it could very well be simple u-joints. If the u-joints have a tad bit of play, it will create vibrations that damage seals, like your pinion shaft seal.

I had a u-joint cup totally explode, all the bearings, grease, and cup were gone. But I had no clue, drove like a charm, no vibs at all! My loud clunk went to a clunk with a ping. Replaced joints, no clunk and ping.

So get a second option from a friend or another mechanic, because 2 u-joints and a pinion seal cost $30 and a hour of someones time.

Also, like RB said, get your own parts, but if a total axle swap is what you end up doing, mark you old axle and make sure they actually replace it.

[River Beast]

if you have mixed matched gearing... say 2.73's in the front a 3.31's in the rear... your transfer case is going to go out VERY QUICKLY! They need to be the same to turn the same all the time in the full time application....even in a part time situation gears should matche front to rear or damage will occur somewhere in the driveline.

www.ring-pinion.com (http://www.ring-pinion.com) is a good source for parts and so is www.differentials.com (http://www.differentials.com)

Marc brings up a good point... worn out u-joints will take out seals and cause vibes to the driveline and clunking as well when changing gears... binding joints will thump when in use too.

I know noone here wants to see you get 'taken'... it happens too many times. Explain to the mech. that you would like to see what it 'bad' in the diff housing... worn parts in the housing are most likely bearings, when the bearings go, it throws the alignment of the R&P off and this can be seen by the gear teeth beign REAL Shiney... they should have a dull satin finish for normal wear.... look for 'grooving' in the base of the teeth on the ring gear and wear near the top of the teeth that kinda wears them into a point.

CHECK THOSE UJOINTS GOOD!!!!!

[Marc_01]

To add on checking u-joints:

I checked mine prior to the cup breaking in hopes of trouble shooting the clunk, i couldn't find anything wrong by moving them with my hand. I "assumed" they were good and thought it was the rear dif as well!

Checked them a second time, but this time i got under and really pulled and twisted them will all my might. I then found that the one near the t-case was screwed.

So if you do check them, get under there and really try to twisted and push on them.. Because a human hand barely compares to the torque of that engine. Or, you could just replace the suckers and know they are new and not a part of the problem smile.gif

[River Beast]

one more thing to add..... ;)

u joints should be checked INSTALLED with no force fromt he drivetrain on them!! In other words... jack up the rear diff with both wheels off the ground so you can 'feel' the slop... with tension on them they will feel good as new...

Try to get them to go side to side and watch for play in the caps....

[Rogue]

$150 for installing used diff is not bad(especially for a bigger city), prolly 3 hours @ $50/hr(they do have to make profit after all), but $350 for used diff pretty high in general but prolly close to what the market will bear in a larger metropolitan area. if you decide to rebuild what you have the labor price will go up since it is no longer a matter of swapping parts but pressing bearings on and off and resetting pinion depth, preload, backlash, etc, etc. They may have quoted used parts because they dont have the tools to properly set up a diff. with the added labor price you just may not save any money but actually spend more - its a good vs. evil thing, i guess if i were you it would depend on the warranty

[sailingjeep]

Thanks Rogue, that made me feel a little better.
Thanks for everybody's help and comments.
I am going by tomorrow to look at mine and this used one they found. I'll let everybody know how it goes.

Thanks!! Once again, Y'all rock. I've never had so much fun with a vehicle and I probably wouldn't have kept it if it hadn't been for the resources on this page to help me keep it going.

[River Beast]

All cases are not EXACTLY the same... if you remove a carrier from one Dana44 (or AMC20) and put it in another Dana 44( or AMC20)... you still have to check it for proper backlash, pinion depth and preload... the whole nine yards.... And if it's out of specs, it must be reshimmed.. which means R&R the bearings and install shims or take away shims... so bacically... you have the same amount of work with a used carrier than you do with an old one....I've done this.... I know...plus it's harder to setup used gears in another carrier due to the fact you have to line up the wear as close as possible.

Another thing.... the ring and pinion are a MATCHED SET... you CANNOT replace one without using the MATCH with it or your asking for trouble. So the used carrier he had MUST be accompanied with the pinion that was with it... if not....he's wasting your money.. if so....he still has to set it up with preload, pinion depth and backlash.

That's why I said it's better off to get new stuff instead of new... same amount of work...

[Rogue]

oh crap i was thinking of ford 9" style dont know why sailingjeep RB is absolutely correct