12v pump

[matthew]

Hi,
In the next month or so I am going to be puting a reman. long block in my GW and would like to add a prelube pump for the oil. All the kits I have seen are around $500 there is no way I will pay that, I can jerryrig one for cheep. http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/wink.gif Does anybody know where, online or not, I could find a 12v pump that would pump oil around 20-50psi?

Thanks, Matt

------------------
84 GW
TFI ignition
and a lot more work to come

[andy d]

no but if you find one please post the details. 500$good lawd thas a lotta money!

[PAJEEPER]

I've seen a compressed air oil accumulator that you can get from Summit. Its a little tank that holds 1 or 3 quarts extra oil and you pressurize it with compressed air. It says you can use it for a preluber before startup and it is also for extra oil if your oil supply gets low. The extra oil is forced back into the tank when its not needed. Its alot cheaper than the electric prelubers but has a few drawbacks you have to refill it with air everytime you use it. If you have a compressor you could, I do but it would be a hassle to refill it all the time. Or if you have on board air you could plumb it into that and refill as you drive.

------------------
Greg

'81 J10
258,727,208
custom bumpers 4" pipe f,square tube r.
Yellow powdercoated wheels.

'77 J20
360 4BBL,400,Q-trac.
Heavy duty steel flatbed.
Currently under construction with new frame.

[nograin]

I was going to suggest same as Greg just did. As usual, the catalogs don't give you the facts. The one I have does not have the draw back Greg described. The system was developed by Mecca, and manufactured by Canton. I think Morosso's is the same with their name on it, or a licensed copy.

I used mine on my Baracuda for 6 or 7 years. To use it as a preluber, you open a valve to let oil flow from the pressurised cannister before you start your engine. Then, before you shut your engine down, you must close the valve, trapping 1 to 2 quarts of oil at that pressure. A small amount of air pressure is used to keep the internal piston from bottoming out. After installation, you never touch it.

It worked very well. I also used it to prelube the rebuilt engine by spinning the oil pump with a drill attachment, and closing the valve.

Here are the drawbacks. Plumbing!
To set this up, one has to find a place to T into the oil passages. On a small block chrsyler, this is a royal pain. If the engine is already installed, pretty much the only option is to use an adapter plate at the oil filter. Unlike the FSJ 360, there isn't enough room to do that on the 'cuda, so I had to use an adapter that allowed me to hose it to a remote oil filter, and T in on the remote filter. The adapter was restrictive and tended to work loose. The hot 340 fried several sets of braided aircraft hose making the rubber inside crack. Lovely.

I mounted the accusump behind the rear seat. Ran the T hose through a former a/c line hole to a manual valve on my tranny hump. The under the carpet to the accusump. That part worked great. Also good to insure no loss of oiling pressure if you are doing things that might move oil away from the pickup.

For a few more dollars, like $30 I think, you can get a solenoid actuated valve, and I bet with a little thought and a couple of relays and delays from your electronics store, you could automate the whole operation.

It only needs air pressure when you first set it up. About 15 psi.

------------------
360 auto select
body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside

[PAJEEPER]

Nograin, Now that I think about it thats how it must work. The catalog just says it uses compressed air but it must work like you said without having to refill it with air. Thanks for explaining it better. It is the Moroso system I Thank I might get one of those and try it that would be the way to go instead of spending$500! Did you notice any extended life to your 340 by using the system? Did it start any easier?

------------------
Greg

'81 J10
258,727,208
custom bumpers 4" pipe f,square tube r.
Yellow powdercoated wheels.

'77 J20
360 4BBL,400,Q-trac.
Heavy duty steel flatbed.
Currently under construction with new frame.

[This message has been edited by PAJEEPER (edited December 23, 2000).]

[nograin]

Not sure if it extended the life of the 340, but my sense was it did. I think it stayed tighter the first 45, or 50,000 miles when I had it still hooked up.

I wouldn't say starting was easier, just kinder. You don't get that change in sound as the system comes up to pressure, 'cause it is already there.

I bought mine direct from Canton, they were in Conn. Might have been a slight savings at the time, but my friend was also running a shop then, and it was often easy to get jobber or racer prices.

I only stopped using it because of the oil seeping out of the plumbing every year or two.



------------------
360 auto select
body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside

[miked]

here's the little fella from moroso
http://www.martelbros.com/morosooilingsystems/77.htm

its $60 thru summit racing, not sure what martel is selling it for.

the controlling relay is $100

looks like you will still need the hoses, connectors, etc - BUT it beats $500. could you pipe this in thru the oil pressure sender on the block?

------------------
Mike D'Ambrogia - San Ramon, CA
69 Custom Wagoneer - The Firetruck

Built 350 w/ Buick 4 barrel manifold, 600 cfm quadra-jet, RV cam, 10:1, Pertronix ignition,8mm plug wires
MSD coil
rebuilt TH400 w/ B&M shift kit
Powr-Lok rear end
Factory A/C
Herculiner over new floorboards
Complete rewire with American Autowire Power Plus kit
LPG/Propane install coming soon!

[This message has been edited by miked (edited December 23, 2000).]

[nograin]

The oil sending tapp hole is probably too small. Way too small.

I think you can getaway with a 3/8 NPT port. I don't now the amc motor well enough to help as to where there may be accessible, plugged tapps.

I ran 1/2 NPT connections into AN-10 connectors and hose. I've seen remote kits with reinforced rubber hose, if you don't want to mess with that braided stuff. Its pricey and hard to work with. Just make sure everyting you use is intended for hot oil under pressure. You can eaily hit 90 psi in the lines when cold. Thats a lot of umph!

At an old job, had a sr. engineer design a hollow flat that intended for use under 15 psi. d**n thing nearly exploded on me. Then I made the same mistake when making my own adapter plate for the the aplication we are discussing. Lets see, a 4" diameter plate, is roughly 6 square inches times 50 psi equals 300 pounds force. Ooops! 1/4 inch plate held at the center is gonna distort under that load!

1989 info for Canton Racing Products
9 Tipping Drive
Branford, Conn. 06405
tel. (203) 481-8324
#2400 3 qt accusump, 16 in long, 4.25 dia;
#2402 1.75 qt accusump, 12.25" long, 4.25 dia.
#2418 Pressure resevior (for those who want to dump the accusump even faster
#2420 Mounting kit
#2430 Accusump III "Preoiler", 1 qt. 13", 3.5 in dia. Sold as kit with solenoid valve, etc.
They sell "adapters" that let you hose the Accusump III with 1/4 inch and 5/16 tubing - SO maybe I am wrong, but even there, it looks like the pipe fittings are 1/4" NPT, not 1/8 as I think the sending unit has. Might be worth a call, and some investigating.

Prices in 1989 were the same for the 3 qt., 1.75 qt, and the Preoiler pkg. $280 list/ $175 Racer.



------------------
360 auto select
body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside

[nograin]

Hey just checked out your link to Martel. Cool.

Think the Accumulator 2 doesn't really work by gravity. The physics don't work out that way. I think the real story is that if it needs gravity to get keep the oil over the oil inlet and off of the check valve or what ever that is on the top side.

Hope that helps.

[matthew]

Hey guys thanks for the info, I found something else that got me thinking, it's a 28 VDC Hydraulic pump, on ebay. If I run a two-battery system would the 24v would be enough to operate the pump, also if I do hook the batteries up in parallel is there anyway to keep the 24v and 12v separate? What I was thinking is to run two big diodes (big enough to handle 30A) off the positive sides of both bat. and connect them together to get my 24v and leaving 12v at the bat. post. I'm not sure but I would guess a battery isolator for a two bat. system would work about the same but the diodes would be reversed, to allow current to flow from the alt to each bat but not the other way.
I have succeeded in totally confusing myself.



------------------
84 GW
TFI ignition
and a lot more work to come

[ncxj]

http://www.autoenginelube.com/
How about this?

[J10-401]

The best is by Accusump (Canton). They hold the patents IIRC. I used them in race cars for years. Get an electric shutoff valve and you can preoil your motor every time you start it! Since a racecar sits for days between starts it's a great way to take wear off your bearings on a cold fire up. Get a 2-Quart model and tap into where your oil gauge sender screws into the block.

First time you use it you pour the oil in after pushing the piston back with a broomstick and open up the schrader valve in the air chamber. Once you hook up the plumbing you put air pressure back in. You need a manual shut off valve (cheap) if you don't use the electric one.

http://www.accusump.com/

[ncxj]

get a pressurized tank
How about using a pump like this
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=61487&R=61487
a valve like this
http://www.hydraforce.com/Proport/Prop-pdf/2-372-1.pdf
or a threaded check valve.
Run a line from the drain pan to the inlet side of the pump
attach a tee from the pump outlet use he straight run a line to the sending unit and install a tee and a nipple
put a ball valve in the other section of the tee by the pump and run a self coiling hose with for draining your oil by using the pump.

[ncxj]

Any thoughts or comments?