Got my CS alternator, now how do I hook up for my application?

[KYJ10]

I currently have a 12SI, single wire running to the batt side of the starter solonoid. I have 2 4 gage battery wires, one runnig from battery to solonoid, and 1 running to a terminal block. The terminal block has 10 plugs, and I have all electric running off the block. So I was just wondering how to run the CS wires? I figure there probably have to be more than 1 terminal on the CS used? Thanks, Dennis

[Joe Guilbeau]

Dennis,

Your CS130 has a 4-Terminal internal regulator circuit that (depending on the specific regulator circuit) can have the following terminals.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res00d4r/alt/Alternator_Theory.html

Image 16 in the above article shows a typical CS-130 alternator.

CS-130 regulator pins are "S"-"L"-"I"/"F"-"P"

S-Terminal -- Larger terminal, Regulator's "Sense"
Voltage terminal. This terminal is used by the internal regulator to monitor the battery voltage.

L-Terminal == Some vehicles utilize an "Idiot Light" this terminal is used in those applications and in some vehicle the lamp circuit is paralled with a resistor in case the lamp burns out. If this terminal is used, a lamp or voltage drop is required for this terminal. When the voltage regulator circuit monitors a voltage output greater or lessor than the 13.5Vdc-14.5 (or whatever specific Voltage range that the particular voltage regulator circuit in YOUR PARTICULAR CS-130 is set to) falls outside of this range, the warning lamp begins to glow inside the cab warning the operator the there is a problem (either overcharging or undercharging problem) in the system.

I/F-Terminal -- This depends upon the specific Voltage Regulator installed on the CS-130, if it is rebuilt it may be hard to determine which function is used, as it is Voltage Regulator specific and there are problably up to 20 different voltage requlators made for the CS-130. Don't fret, this is not really necessary as it is probably not required for the Jeep. Some vehicles used a resistor with the Ignition Switch and this connection uses that feature. Other vehicles use an Electric Control "Brain" that can use this terminal to sense the ON/Off duty cycle of the PWM regulator circuit to monitor the alternator's Field Strength and feed back an appropriate signal based upon other criteria for proper operation of the charging circuit.

P-Terminal -- Unless you have a need to monitor the RPM output from the alternator, this can be ignored. You do not need to use this terminal.

To condense all of this down to a KISS principal, you really only need to supply the CS-130 "S-Terminal" which is the larger terminal in the Regulator Housing.

Tap into the Splice from the downstream side of the Ammeter (Got one?), generally from where the Large Yellow wire has the splice, tie in there, and your regulator circuit on the alternator will monitor the proper voltage reference to keep your battery well maintained. That is all you really need to do. Follow the Yellow wire from the Starter Solenoid to the splice, and tie the "P-
Terminal" to that spot, you should see a good charging voltage on the battery.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by Joe Guilbeau:
Dennis,

"... and tie the "P-Terminal" to that spot, you should see a good charging voltage on the battery.Oppss, the above is a TYPO ERROR, and should be the "S-Terminal"!!!

[KYJ10]

I don't have any stock wire or gages. So I assume that the bat terminal still goes to the solonoid battery side, but what about the S sensing wire in my particular application?

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by KYJ10:
I don't have any stock wire or gages. So I assume that the bat terminal still goes to the solonoid battery side, but what about the S sensing wire in my particular application?Read my post again, I believe that you will find that I mentioned the "S-Terminal" going to the Splice in the Yellow wire.

I do not understand your description that states..."...I don't have any stock wire or gages..."

You "could" just get the "S-Terminal" voltage directly from the battery, but I would rather see you go to the splice (Follow the Yellow wire from the Solenoid to the splice and tie in there).

[KYJ10]

I don't have a harness. It has been completely gutted. Absolutly no original wires. So I understand where batt terminal goes, to the battery. I actaully have mine going to the battery side of the starter solonoid. But I don't have a yellow wire anymore. So the S wire would just go to the battery? Or would it be better somewhere else?

Let me explain my setup better. I have the battery behind my seat. I have 1 4 gage wire running to the starter solonoid. I have the batt terminal of my alternator connected to this side of the solonoid. Thus charging on a wire that is only being pulled from on initial crank.

I have another 4 gage wire running to a terminal block. It has like 10 terminals that I run everything else. IE ignition, lights, radio, wipers and such. So it is a real basic setup.
COuld I just run the batt terminal on the CS, to the battery side of the solonoid. And the S terminal directly to my battery, or would it be better connected to the terminal block, that everything is pulling from? Dennis

[KYJ10]

After reading several of the post on the other delco topic, it seems that the batt terminal on the CS should go to the battery. And the S wire should go to my wire I have feeding all my electric stuff. I guess the S wire would be sensing how much is being drawn, and send the appropriot charge through the batt terminal wire? Dennis

[Joe Guilbeau]

That is a pretty good set up.

The idea is to have the alternator sense the voltage somewhere to the splice that provides power to the Ignition Switch, horn relay, headlights, in the old wire harnesses.

If you do not have any of the old harness left, then downstream of the battery is how power gets to the above items on your Jeep.

There should be some sort of tie-in point for those circuits that do not require the vehicle to be running. Routing the "S-Terminal" to as close to this point as is practical is the desired place to sense the voltage that the battery is supplying to the various loads on the system.

This will allow the alternator to better determine the load placed on the battery and allow it's regulator circuit to more appropriately manage the charge sent to the battery, even if the battery has been relocated as in your case.

[KYJ10]

exactally. My terminal block is hot all the time. I have about 10 things running off this terminal, to a series of toggles, or straight to some of the things that require power all the time. So I could hook the S wire to the terminal block, and it could sense how much is being used. Or would it be better to splice into my supply line to the terminal, or would this be about the same.

[Stolen76]

On some of the cs series alternators, depending on which specific regulator is used... a constant supply to the "s" terminal can cause the battery to discharge through the alternator. this parasitic load can suck your battery dead overnight. If you have this problem, go to radio shack and ask for a zener diode. put it inline in the sensing wire.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by KYJ10:
exactally. My terminal block is hot all the time. I have about 10 things running off this terminal, to a series of toggles, or straight to some of the things that require power all the time. So I could hook the S wire to the terminal block, and it could sense how much is being used. Or would it be better to splice into my supply line to the terminal, or would this be about the same.I think that if the terminal block is handy, then this is a fine spot to tie in the S wire.

If you haven't already gotten round to it, some circuit breakers or in-line fuses of the proper amperage ratings would be a really good idea.

There is a Blue Seas 100 amp circuit breaker that is resettable for about $40 dollars from West Marine dealers that will protect the Battery to Terminal Barrier Strip, or even the Alternator to Battery wiring.

It is a sealed package appropriate for Marine use and is sealed package that can be mounted to the firewall for instance or the fenderwell...

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001

In the above link, enter the "Blue Seas" keyword search and there will be about 110 matches, clicking that link will allow you to take a look at the various offerings.

These are worth it to prevent problems like shorts, and one should be placed inbetween your battery and the terminal block.

Adding a little security might pay off handsomely in the future.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by Stolen76:
On some of the cs series alternators, depending on which specific regulator is used... a constant supply to the "s" terminal can cause the battery to discharge through the alternator. this parasitic load can suck your battery dead overnight. If you have this problem, go to radio shack and ask for a zener diode. put it inline in the sensing wire.Just when you think you have beat this topic to death, comes some more cautions...

The above statement could not ring truer, please, please be careful about which Regulator Circuit that your CS-130 has...there are many and many applications, you can't just swap just any CS-130 in and feel comfortable anymore.

I offer the following as just another caution that I happend across tonight...disconnecting the Battery connection before unplugging I already knew about, but read on there is more...kudo's to Mohammad Samii for providing us with this info...

http://www.apra.org/GlobalConnection/GC-2003/09_Sep/AutoElectricCorner.asp

Delphi’s ASVR-new generation of regulators for CS and AD alternators has been a subject of concern among rebuilders.

Due to the delicate construction of the internal chip, certain precautions—such as disconnecting the battery cable before installation—are necessary to prevent false biasing, and thus, ruining the unit as well as precautions necessary for proper hookup sequence (negative-positive-regulator plug) on the test bench.

Also a subject of discussion has been the remote sensing of certain Delco Electronics regulators (such as 1119412) that required a remote thermistor to send battery temperature information to the "S" terminal.

I have received the following letter from Steve Anderson which explains some of the issues on the matter:

"To introduce myself to some of you that I may not have met — I retired from Delphi Automotive Systems over a year ago. I was responsible for the specification and design of the electronic chip (Integrated Circuit), called an ASVR (All Silicon Voltage Regulator).

These are inside nearly all the Delphi CS, DIF (CS130D), and AD regulators built in the last few years. I now work for TadiTel Automotive Electronics, which has been manufacturing the CS and DIF regulators for Delphi. Perhaps I can help clarify some of the regulator questions regarding ASVR regulators.

The 98 Aurora does not have an ASVR regulator if it has a thermistor at the battery. To find out why the vehicle in question doesn’t charge properly, Juan Grube’s article in the July 2003 Electrical Rebuilders Exchange reflects my understanding of the older regulators (prior to ASVR), and explains how these regulators are wired and how to test them. The thermistor resistance gets lower as it gets hotter. This lowers the charging voltage.

There are no ASVRs that are direct replacements for the Delco Electronics hybrid regulators that use a thermistor in the Sense lead (such as 1116412, 1116434, and 19009712).

Delphi has ASVR regulators for "Remote Battery" applications. ASVR regulators (such as 19009727, 19009733, 19009743 and 19009751) are used in newer-model rear-seat or trunk battery applications.

They must have the Sense line connected to the battery or the regulator will indicate a fault. They must not have a thermistor or additional resistance in the sense line or the charging voltage will be too high.

Therefore, if any of the ASVR regulators are used to replace older regulators on vehicles that have a thermistor in the sense line, the sense wire must be connected directly to the battery, not through a thermistor. The thermistor adds resistance in the sense line, and increases the charging voltage, overcharging the battery.

If a regulator made for a thermistor sense input is used to replace an ASVR regulator, this would cause the generator to put out only about 11.5 volts, undercharging the battery.

Regarding AD generators: They all use ASVR regulators, so none of them will have a thermistor in the sense line."

I would like to thank Steve for sharing this information with the industry and look forward to his help in the future.

That’s all for this month. Until I see you again, keep up the good work.

Mohammad Samii can be reached at 217-398-3864 or email to

sammyselectric@sbcglobal.net

[KYJ10]

So I will just go ahead and hook it up, and see if it draws down my battery. I know the diode, cause Ive used them b4 in my tractor alternator swap job. Dennis

[imported_horsepuller]

Question for Joe G:

I'm reading the specs from delco that you put in your site. Just want to make sure I'm reading this right:

1. A 66 amp max output 12 SI puts out 23 amps at 1600 rpm.
2. A 94 amp max output 12 SI puts out 32 amps at 1600 rpm.
3. A 105 amp max output cs 130 puts out 40 amps at 1600 rpm.

Thanks.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Originally posted by horsepuller:
Question for Joe G:

I'm reading the specs from delco that you put in your site. Just want to make sure I'm reading this right:

1. A 66 amp max output 12 SI puts out 23 amps at 1600 rpm.
2. A 94 amp max output 12 SI puts out 32 amps at 1600 rpm.
3. A 105 amp max output cs 130 puts out 40 amps at 1600 rpm.

Thanks.I believe that Image #14 shows some typical outputs from three 12-SI units in a graphical format, where the AMPs are graphed on the Vertical Scale and the Alternator RPMs are graphed on the Horizontal Scale.

For the CS-130 or CS-130D Alternators, which are essentially the same with some advanced cooling features on the ""D-Series", Image 29 graphs two CS-130D's in the same manner as above.

These graphs came from the AC Delco Automotive Parts TechConnect web site.