I lied . . (major electical issues, part II)

[Woodstock-Waggy]

:confused: Aright, follow mw on this one:

About 6 months ago I droped a wrench, which ofcourse hit circuit breaker on the drivers side fender next to the ignition mod. Result, big spark and Jeepy no go-y. Change circuit breaker, still no go-y. Poke and prod around the alternater, starter relay, batery wire loom, snug all conecttions. Jeep starts; yeah. :confused:

2 months later, Driving home car "runs out of gas" or so i thought. added gass, no starty, no go-y. Tried new ignition mod.No go-y. (helped schmo with Escort broken down in same lot, it go-y good now) Poked, proded, kicked, screamed, and prayed. Jeep finally starts. :confused:

2month after that, driving home on I-575, (I can see my exit) loose all power, jeep dies on side of road. Next day, try to jumpstart, no good. Team of Atlanta area FSJers show up to work on prob. Finally, starter removed and tested. A-OK. Tow the beast home. Change starter relay, poke and prod wire looms, car starts right up. :confused:

Friday night, pulled into garage to load up for a Saturday wrench o thon with the Atlanta area guys. Saturday morning, jeep is completely dead. Jump start it and make it to Sitting Bull's house. Dissconnect neg terminal, Jeep still runs. Turn off Jeep, dead. Tkae battery to be tested/charged. It is good, they charge it up. Jeep sucks battery dry without starting. Find bad conection (green wire from starter relay to starter solenoid) fix it, re-charge battery, jeep starts. on off several times, jeep still starts. I am happy. drive home, pull in garage, turn off Jeep. Re-start it right then and there, no way, dead again. I weep while beatting my head on the steering wheel. Please help!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[ October 14, 2003, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Woodstock-Waggy ]

[Woodstock-Waggy]

oh yeah, bottom line:

starter w/ new solenoid - tested good
new battery Tested good
New starter relay
Ignition mod tested good
wires, checked and checked again
Car runs without battery

Can't figure it out!!!

[Quartermaster]

And there are a lot of wires/connections to check!

Does it crank? I think I'd be tempted to check the ignition switch.

[Woodstock-Waggy]

Trys to, which one is the ignition switch? Is that the one that mounts inside the steering column or the actual keyed switch?

[710 Burner]

Its on top of the steering column by the brake pedal.

[Woodstock-Waggy]

I will check it out when I get home, I may actually have a new one in a box somewhere in the landfill I call a garage ;)

[Rande]

Jeep will run with the battery disconnected because the alternator is suppling the power. Sometimes doing that blows the diodes in your alternator and it will then discharge your battery while sitting. It will still charge while running, but shut it off and the discharge begins.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Check alternator...

[HeepofaJeep]

Off topic, but this is what happened when I felt like shooting my truck...
Bullet hole. (http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/1963-1987-Pickups/Heep20bullet.jpg)

I think I would target the alternator also, though. They can be pretty sensitive. It sounds like you have a relatively good group of FSJ guys there though, so I bet you could borrow an alternator from them temporarily to see if that is the problem. I think if you bring the alternator in, they will see that it is charging, and tell you it is good. (we just went through the same type of stuff with my friends cj, and it ended up being the Ign. Module, AFTER the parts guy looked us in the eye and said the it did not need to be tested, it worked fine)

Another thing to check though, is just go through your fuses and see where the draw on the battery is coming from.

[billyj7175]

Might be a long shot, but check your actualy key ignition. I had one go silly in a old chevy blazer one time, that drove me batty trying to figure it out. The truck would shut off (whenever it felt like it) and be totally dead...and in the process of checking different things, and turning the key ign on and off, it would start, and everything would work fine.

[billyj7175]

..make that "check your ACTUAL key ignition switch"....I guess I'll actually preview my posts next time.

[Oracle]

Well, my thinking is what would be affected by your initial short? out of all of those things, which ones have you not yet checked? If you're SURE you didn't melt a wire hot enough to have an intermittent short in the loom, then sounds like blown diodes in the alternator, or the ignition module on the top of the steering wheel as has been noted.

Also, as has been noted that module is connected to the key switch so if in your anxious moments you tweaked the key switch you could get the same effect as a blown ignition module.

I also like the plan of hitting the fuse box and finding out who/what is sucking out your juice.
When nyou find the little bastard beat the hell out of him smile.gif

[mdill]

Originally posted by Woodstock-Waggy:
oh yeah, bottom line:

starter w/ new solenoid - tested good
new battery Tested good
New starter relay
Ignition mod tested good
wires, checked and checked again
Car runs without battery

Can't figure it out!!!OK This seems like taking a shot gun to a dead animal, you have replaced electical
units that are not really related to each other.
The starting system has little to do with the ignition system. (There is some cross
over at the crank input to the coil and the ignition switch but thats about it)

What are your exact symtoms when you say "no start" "goes dead" ???
Does the car crank but not start ? Or not crank when "dead" ??
Does the bat go dead with lights and ignition off ?
Do any other electrical systems work when it dies (Radio, head lights .. )

Mike D.

[billyrb]

Bill, I'm willing to bet you have a toasted ignition switch (above the steering column under the dash). It would act the same as what you have been describing. It can cut off your vehicle, it can make starting difficult, and if there is a short, it can drain your battery. I'd pick up a used one and try that for a while.

[2nd-Day-Revived]

Just another shot in the dark here, but when you replaced your relay are the wires hooked up correctly? It will fire if they arent, but it drains your battery in the mean time. If nothing else, what about grounds?

[Woodstock-Waggy]

And the answer is. . . .

New Alternator. The guy who tested it hit the button once, then walked away shaking his head. And of course, the battery was roasted too, but it was till under warrantee. (FREEBIE) Drain seems to be fixed, but I think I may replace the ignition switch et al soon anyway. They have taken a beating latly, and I don't want to get stuck again. . . .

[ October 13, 2003, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Woodstock-Waggy ]

[Woodstock-Waggy]

Alright, it ran great for two days. This morning I had juice to the courtousey lights and gauges, but not enough to turn the engine over even once. Could here the starter click into place, but no cranking at all.

What is the best way to test the ignition switches and relays??????

[ October 14, 2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Woodstock-Waggy ]

[gsmikie]

pull the eng wiring harness from the firewall connection and check all of the connectors in the plug clean them and coat them with die-elec grease sounds like a loose wire at the bulk head

[Hammerx]

Just went through similar issues with my 89. Turned out to be the drive/fog lamp relay. For whatever reason, the relay was engaging and pulling a current. Pull the positive terminal from the battery post off and on; listen for the sound of the relay engaging. As soon as I pulled the relay, all was good again.
Good luck!

[Al Johnson]

It really sounds to me like you have a drain when the ignition is off. This kills your battery, and you had other problems, as well, but fixed those.
Use a test lamp in series with the ground (negative) wire of your battery when everything is supposedly shut off. See if the light glows, even dimly. Use a multimeter on amps function only if it has overcurrent protection, there might be a significant current draw there.

If you find a current drain, the fun begins as you try to locate it, but at least you would know that you're on the right track.

Al

[Mondo Bat.]

Originally Posted by Oracle:

Well, my thinking is what would be affected by your initial short? What? Your thinking would be affected eh? By his initial short???

Woodstock, I think perhaps you should check your head? Oracle says that what you think is what you get, are you thinking about Margret Thatcher naked on a very cold day? Maybe thats whats causing the problem. smile.gif
just kidding everyone, please don't lynch me.

[Woodstock-Waggy]

ewwwww!!!!!!