AMC cam tech

[rustywag]

I am new to the FSJ thing, but have extensive prior Mopar experience. I have had good success using Mopar cams from different applications to improve performance. i.e. a 340 cam is a good replacement to boost performance in a 318 etc. I have done a search here and haven't found any references to this practice with AMC motors. Additionally I while swapping Mopar cams to different applications I generally install them 4 degrees advanced for a boost to low and mid RPM punch. I would expect that an AMC 401 factory "performance" grind perhaps from an AMX installed 4 degrees advanced would be a good choice for an AMC 360. Has anyone done this? What my search turned up mostly was that about 1/2 the people who swapped out their factory 360 cams went with Eldebrock and only half of them seem truly satisfied. Everyone else seems to be running some other manufacturers RV cam (designed for a 350 Chev. and adapted for an AMC no-doubt) but no outright consensus on an excellent cam for an AMC 360. Perhaps because Mopar has designed an extensive line-up of performance cams to compliment their fairly impressive factory original grinds and most general street-type performance Mopars use one of them I have become spoiled. What I expected to find was maybe 60 or 75% of the people running the same cam and most of them happy. However, that doesn't seem to be the case here. So has anyone experimented with AMC factor cams? And what about the 4 degree advance? I've seen no reference to that practice at all here and am surprised as it's common and successful with Mopars??

[Cliff]

Other than stock grinds, the only performance AMC factory cam is the Group 19. Not suited for 4WD, it's a good street/strip cam. Although built for the 390, I know of some wo have used a similar cam in a 360.

I have used a Lunati RV cam that produced gobs of low-end power in a 304. I am currently running a 312 duration .563 lift Crane in my AMC Spirit 401.

Don't know about the Performer cam, but the Performer manifold produces small gains by itself.

One thing I have learned about the AMC V-8 - it likes to breathe. Big cams, big carbs, and big pipes work.

[Jerk]

no, we don't have a general cam consensus just because a jeep is a multi use tool. most mopars are built for one thing, 1/4 mile or street and strip (same thing really) Edelbrock does do justice to the 360 and 401s but they design their stuff to work together with all the matched components, there are very few folks in jeepland that buy all of one manufacturers' stuff and build the engine to suit the components.(like matching cam, timing, exhaust system, intake manifold, carburatur or other fuel delivery device, compression ratio, heads, gears, tires, tranny, etc.) And this is why: you have the 1-street rodder jeep guys(me,) 2-the mud pit guys, 3-the rock crawler guys(sometimes the same as group 2) 4-the sand pit guys (sometimes the same as groups 2 and 3), 5- the all around guys(which can include all or none of groups 1 thru 4, but not usually), etc.

Also AMC/Jeep doesn't truly exist anymore, if you would have gotten into this 30 years ago, you would have found TONS of AMC/jeep built engine performance parts, called "group 19" but these days, ******-Chrymler Corp doesn't support the backyard JEEP performance mechanic, in any way, shape, or form. THIS SUCKS. But, of course if you could get amc/jeep "group 19" stuff from D-C corp it'd cost you 3 times what the aftermarket stuff costs and wouldn't be any better!

As far as a 390 cam, it don't exist anymore, everything is aftermarket, and generally better for being modern. what I mean is the engine performance guys have learned alot in 30 years, I like newly developed speed parts, just not microchips! on a similar note: concerning degreeing a cam, most jeep guys don't care about a 10 hp/torq split from High to low rpm so no one really does it here. its mostly "better mileage", "Bigger tires", "more lift", or the ever common: "My **** don't run!" that most of us wine about. Me, I would love 500 hp and 500 torque on street gas, but it really ain't worth the money, you know, maybe if it was a 68 charger or 70 cuda, then yeah, maybe it would be worth it. Anyway, that's my 2 cents, welcome aboard and don't judge us all as "rednecks" too quickly... wait a bit before you do that. ;) - Matt W

[Jerk]

cliff, you gots a 401 spirit...drool, is it like the one in Carcraft a few years ago?? that is my ultimate engine there, but since I have a transfer case and 5000 lbs of truck too move, it prolly isn't to realistic, but it'd be fun as hell...for a while. then it'd be spendy! :D

[Lindel]

Don't forget that Summit Racing, PAW, and Jegs offer some parts for us. The Summit cam (SUM-K8600) is a good overall grind for the 360, and the other AMC grind might be good for the 401.

Offenhuaser still makes and sells there dual port intake, valve covers, etc.

Edelbrock is still actively supporting the AMC/Jeep crowd, and is considering a MPI setup for us, using the AMC air gap performer manifold.

[rustywag]

The "one size doesn't fit all" explanation makes good sense, I hadn't thought of it that way. As far as aftermarket cams - in the past I have generally shied away from them unless I know they were engineered specifically for Mopars. Generally this is because I believe that most aftermarket manufacturers design for the 350 Chevy and use those Chevy cam profiles for everyone. In the case of a Mopar the specifics of the original Mopar design really need to be addressed when designing a camshaft. For example the Mopar lifters are of a larger diameter than a small block Chevy. This has an understandable effect on how a specific lobe profile "acts" in a Mopar engine. Chevy lobe designs work they just aren't designed with Mopar specific parameters in mind. Thus an Acme brand .480 lift 295 duration cam that adds 100 HP in a 350 chevy may only add 70 HP in a 360 Mopar. The Mopar .480 lift 295 duration cam might add 110 HP to the Mopar. Same specs just vastly different performance due to the lobe profile design not being "correct" for the application. Back to AMC - as that’s where we started, I'm still curious about advancing AMC cams. Does anyone do this? Why or why not? Perhaps it's not needed but in a street type low-mid RPM application (which my Grand Wagoneer certainly is) I would certainly give up performance over 4500 to get some at 1500.

BTW, Matt, I am **** proud to be a Redneck and use that term as a high compliment.

[Beast]

I am running a crane 262H, it seems to run great.
Dustin

[Lindel]

Rustywag, I didn't advance the cam in my 87GW, but am considering it in my 79 Cherokee. Just so you know, the AMC uses Chryco lifters, SBC push rods, yada, yada.......

Unfortunately, we are somewhat limited in the parts we have available, the quality of these parts, etc. For the most part, I've had good luck dealing with the three mail order companies I mentioned, and there are others out there that are also worth our attention. One thing to keep in mind, you get what you pay for, and speed costs money! So does torque, how much do you want! smile.gif

[rustywag]

Im posting my Q&A with Edelbrock Tech. for the next guy who may do a search on the subject.

advancing the cam will not give you that much more power, unless an engine
is built really stout, you really never see much of a difference, and the
way our cam was made, we don't recommend it. As for any additional parts,
we only offer headers for this.

Thank you.
When replying, please quote this entire e-mail for reference and to help us
help you better.
Shane Turner
Edelbrock Tech Dept.

-----Original Message-----
From: James Isennock [mailto:Jisennock@cce-apg.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 7:25 AM
To: 'edelbrock@edelbrock.com'
Subject: AMC Performer Camshaft Tech Question

I am considering the installation of an Edelbrock Performer Package on my 87
Jeep Grand Wagoneer 360.
This is a street-driven vehicle with 3:31 gears and 30" tall tires
I intend to use the EGR intake , Carb and Camshaft. The engine has about 10K
miles on a stock re-build.

Will I see any gains by advancing the cam 4 degrees?
Does Edelbrock offer any other products in addition to the Performer Package
to improve the performance of this type vehicle?

[Marvin Gates]

My 80 J20 has the Edelbrock stuff performer intake, Edelbrock cam and 1406 Carb, and Im not impressed at all. I have done the TFI upgrade and still pretty much a slug. My J10 with a 2150 would probably blow the doors off the J20. It seems that a lot of people like the Summit 8600.I wouldn't recommend the Edelbrock cam. Good Luck MG :D :D smile.gif

[jasonthomasfrance]

Howdy,

I've got the cam Lindel mentioned (SUM-K8600). I also have a double roller timing chain from them too. I noticed a little punch with the cam. The thing I really think give me jeep punch is the DUI dizzy. Ever since I've had the jeep (it came with the DUI from the PO) it's had quite a bit of punch off the go. And at 50 I can hit it and jump to 65-70 pretty fast too. Of course I don't have a tach, so I have no idea how high the RPMs are...

I put on thorley headers and an edelbrock 1406, noticed punch get a tad bit better too. I have the stock intake... It would have been nice to dyno it during the build up, but... Oh well.

I'd like to tear the engine apart and start all over with it... But I'm moving...

[Cliff]

Matt, my Spirit IS THE ONE that was in Car Craft a few years ago. No $#it! Bought it from the guy who owned it at the time. Rebuilt the entire car, but the motor seemed solid, so I left it alone. So far, it's running great. Only been back on the road for a month. I bought my 81 Waggie just to pull it to the track.

[Jerk]

DUUUUUDE That rocks!!!!! now I want one, but the Eagle AWD version. Yeah, I know, it'd blow front driveline parts ALL OVER the road when I stomp the "GO" pedal, but just driving around corners at 60mph would be frikkin cool! :D :D :D :D

[Jerk]

Hey, MARVIN, if its a 360, don't expect too much, Ive got the 1405 carb and intake on my 81 cherry but not the cam and it is NOT fast, the engine is old though and it has a lock-up 727 behind it. my 401 j20 would bury it in the weeds accelerating in 3rd gear up a steep hill if the cherry was in 2nd! If I dropped the j20 into 2nd, it would be a more like a friggin rocket(j20) versus a turtle(cherokee)! 360s eat tofu! 401s = STEAK EATERS! but since the wifey drives the Cherry, I don't need her racing around and using up 401s, THEY'RE ALL MINE!