Fuel Injection

[DogsWag]

Are there any Emissions friendly fuel injection kits out there or am I stuck with a carb?

I know that the EGR and AIR system needs to be hooked up on engine to pass the visual inspection, and so far, the only fuel injection systems I've seen don't have a port for the EGR and the air needs to be added AT the cat once the fuel injection system goes into closed loop (using an O2 sensor).

Anybody done this?

It's not that I don't like carbs, I just hate adjusting carbs.

Thanks.

[bignblue]

I think the Howell TBI unit has a CARB ID number...John Meister on the 1FSJ list has one for sale but it's for a 258. He might be able to hook you up, or you could search the Web.

[jharte]

DogsWag, this is a reply from someone who builds custom fuel injection systems for Wags. I don't know if this will be of value or not but I thought it might be worth a mention. I have a 91 GWag with 186K and am thinking about Fuel Injection for the rebuild. Good luck!

Jerry,

I've sold 6 TBI kits so far and 4 TPI kits. All the TBI kits were for Jeep
Wagoneers or J20s with the AMC 360 engine. My price for the Jeep TBI kit is
$800. For this price you get a complete kit with all sensors, a wiring
harness, a rebuilt used TBI, a used engine computer with a custom programmed
chip, a new fuel pump, etc. I'm also working on a 1977 Cadillac with a 427
engine and a Jeep Wagoneer for an optometrist in Canada. The Caddy is going
TBI but the Jeep Wagoneer is going port fuel injection and he plans to add a
turbocharger too.

As for my competition, Holley does sell a TBI kit for $700, but they don't do
spark timing and don't include an oxygen sensor for that price. I take full
computer control of the fuel and spark timing for my fixed price. Holley has
an add on option of $100 to include an oxygen sensor.

Keep in mind that all my parts are GM based parts meaning that any parts
store anywhere stocks all the sensors at a very low cost compared to Holley
fuel injection parts which are only stocked by Holley dealers. You also get
the full GM diagnostics capability which means you can take it to any shop
that works on GM fuel injection and they can read the computer and tell you
whats wrong. If you are only slightly mechanically inclined you can read the
trouble codes with nothing more than a paper clip and trouble shoot most
problems yourself.

For more info, visit my web pages at:
http://members.aol.com/weg1192/gwjeepfi.html
http://members.aol.com/weg1192/360install.html
http://members.aol.com/weg1192/faqsite.html

I do have a lead time of about 4-6 weeks after I receive an order paid in
full. I build the kits with used parts and I can't afford to buy a lot of
stock in used parts and not have them sell. It takes a few weeks to find and
get the parts here and then I have to clean and rebuild the TBIs and build
the other parts as well. I run two businesses and my other business is my
priority, so that is why the lead times are that long.

Thanks for your interest.

John Wilson


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jharte
'91GWag...awesome fun.
A keeper.

[Ralph]

That was from the resident EFI genius, TPIGuy, who lurks in and out of this forum now and then. He uses GM stuff including the ECU, so his solution for EGR and AIR system is to control them with solenoids.

A Holley 2-bbl Pro-Jection system will work with all of our FSJs' stock emissions stuff, since it's essentially just an electronic carburetor. However, you would have to operate in an "open loop" mode without benefit of an O2 sensor providing feedback that the ECU in turn uses to adjust the fuel mixture. (You can use an O2 sensor to assist you with manual adjustments.) If you install an O2 sensor and operate in a "closed loop" mode, the AIR system may cause variances in the exhaust and O2 sensor readings that the ECU doesn't know how to compensate for.

So, the answer to your question is "yes," there is a system that will work. I was very impressed with the Holley's simplicity when instaling one in Narnian's Jeep a couple months ago.

[Gozer]

Has anyone tried one of John Wilson's kits?

[DogsWag]

Thanks for the responses guys, but doesn't taking the vacuum advance out of the distributor make it non-emmissions friendly?

Thanks.

[Chuck W]

Some time ago I had the same question. I went to the C.A.R.B website and found no, sorry folks, that's NO California smog legal aftermarket carbs or fuel injections for the V-8 engines, only the sixes. I was bummed. If you put anything on your fullsize, w/V-8, but stock you'll have to go through a referee to get it cleared. I have no doubt that some of the systems mentioned here would pass the referee, but you'll have to go through the hoops. If I am wrong, please correct me. I'd like to get better mileage and go up to the mountains and have my '77 run right too.

[lanierboy]

Earlier this year I put on a Holley EFI with the O2 option and pulled off the AIR system. I just went throught the Atlanta Emissions check where they visually inspect the Cat and Gas cap. Then they stick a probe up your tail pipe (not as bad as it sounds) to test the emissions. With the EFI, mine checked out well within the standards for an 87 GW

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1987 GW "Christine"
AMC360 / NP229 / TF727
Holley Projection 2bbl
TFI Ignition upgrade
Skyjacker 4" Spring lift
GoodYear Workhorse 31/10.5
My Web (http://members.home.net/lanierboy/)

[nograin]

Hey guys, remember every state is different. California in particular has had stricter rules since 1966 (7?). In a different thread Bob Barry noted that up through '78 the federal regulations on the FSJs did not require cat. converterts. So the rules we are playing by are not the same for all of us.

Vacuum advance really can play h*ll with emissions, but I don't think thats what anyone is saying. (Ralph please correct me if I am wrong!). It sounds to me like Wilson's system controls the spark advance timing electronicly, the Holley TBI lets you hook it up normally, that would be with a combo of manifold vacuum and ported vacuum for most EGR systems.

Actually, if you ran without vacuum advance you would proly pass emissions even easier. IMO it is most critical to gas milage. Unfortunately, pollutionwise, more advance is similar to a leaner mixture, that is the NOx will go up, and the HC goes up too IF the mixture was "right on" before.

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360 auto select
body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside

[This message has been edited by nograin (edited January 01, 2001).]

[DogsWag]

I know here in (northern) VA, they do a very careful visual inspection, and if they see that the distributor vacuum advance is missing then I'll fail. My other choice is to register it in a county that doesn't have emissions inspection.

I have an MSD 6A currently hooked up to the ignition and don't want to loose it to the holley system, I believe that I can keep it with the Holley System.

Honestly, does anyone think that the EFI system will be that much better than just sticking an Edelbrock 1400 on top? I was just thinking that I'll get better mpg's and better cold starting with EFI to make it all worth it.

[Ralph]

Narnian switched from an Edelbrock 1406 to the Holley 2Di and has really liked the difference so far, although some of the tuning issues are new to him. He's on a trip this weekend, but I'm sure he'll post something in this discussion when he gets back.