now CLACK on startup no no no ...now 383 build tips

[Gawdzilla.]

grrrr....*sigh*
first- remember I'm running a SBC.

It was running ok, minus the mystery knock. Thought (in all my wisdom) it might be detonation since my neighbor is convinced w/my compression ratio it wants higher octane so I added some of that outlaw additive. Also retarded the timing a bit, readjusted the carb (seemed happier the richer it got- 2.5 turns on drivers and 3.5 on the pass screw) and...
started shuddering at stoplights so I turned around and came home. Pulled the plugs and the two pass cyls closest to the cab had some black varnishy stuff around the threads. Put some industrial plugs I had (fatter electrode) in and put the timing back where it was. re-readjusted the carb back to 2.5 turns out each side and added 5 gals of un"improved" fuel.
Still runs like crap, but it didn't shudder in drive so I went around the block. Almost didn't make it back. It seems very hesitant to accelerate and there's a pinging sound - dies when I let off the throttle. Now it won't even idle. Thoughts (besides put a 401 in it)???

:confused:

[ January 19, 2004, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Gawdzilla ]

[oldjeepr]

what kind off additive?fuel supplement?or octane booster?
some are varnish washes,and might have cleaned up your heads and also the varnish in your tank,so you should look at your fuel pump and filters,sorry to say,but i sould start there

[Gawdzilla.]

octane booster. r u thinkin I'm fuel starved?
it's idling just like it did when I know I took too much lash out of the rockers- 1/4 turn too tight and it wants to die.

[ January 18, 2004, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Gawdzilla ]

[oldjeepr]

well i am not sure what else to think ,might have plugged up filters,
or your fuel pump is clogged up. that stuff will loosen up things
do you have your lash adjusted right now?plus are you running a hei?gota run the righrt plug gap also

[Gawdzilla.]

HEI yup.
plugs are at 1.150mm (I don't have an SAE gauge...shoot me!)
lash was adjusted last week. I'm about 300 miles into a new cam, new lifters/pushrods. I replaced 2 worn rockers last week to find 'the knock' and now I'm down to a one man band vs. concerto underhood.
didn't realize octane booster would cut sludge. :(

[oldjeepr]

read the contents of it ,it all has to burn ,plus dont go crazy on mixing it,the stuff is meant to be blended correctly,the old" more is better "isn"t meant for that stuff, i guess you wouldnt have much sludge or carbon if the motor has just been put together

[Gawdzilla.]

the motor has unknown history to me, I've had it 3 mos now- new cam is 'cause the old one built itself a new journal out of the #4 exhaust lobe and it was burping out the carb.
I only put one can in, but I did do it on 3/4 tank instead of on an empty tank then add the fuel. The gas tanks are definitely suspect as well for sludge.

[oldjeepr]

well good luck,the screws on the carbs should be set the same turns out,2 and a 1/4 is all you should need,how is your compression in each cylinder?did you have head work done?you might have other bent valves,or

[Gawdzilla.]

I'll set it to 2 1/4. compression was 150+ on all cyls before the cam. Haven't checked it since 'cause I don't have a compression tester (or any $ right now- dern reg fees were 300 bones).
didn't do any head work. it was actually running pretty good before I put the slude inducer in the gas tank.
will that work out of the fuel pump w/clean gas or is it shot now?
the varnish theory would explain what I found on my plugs right? Never seen varnish on a plug before. Yep I'm green. But getting crusty quick!

[oldjeepr]

yeah the varnish sludge is from the tanks i bet, as far as the fuel pump the diapraghm might not have liked all the stuff run through it ,and might have high mileage on it, remanned pump should be cheap,for the trouble ,put in new filters some where if you dont have them,and maybe it will come around

[Gawdzilla.]

I can get the pump for 26 bucks. smile.gif my buddy runs the parts counter at the honda dealer. guess I'll try that before I pull the valve covers again.

[Rogue]

hmmm...since the only thing that really changed was the minor carb tuning, plugs and additive, i would assume the additive broke something loose in the tank and plugged up your filter

i'd go back to the correct plugs also, ok to move up or down a step in heat range definetly not good idea to change plugs entirely delco r45 or something like that is prolly what you should have but don't quote me on that

[Gawdzilla.]

Thanks Jeff.
let me know if you want a walk thru on using ftp. I'll put a screenshot of what it looks like on your post in gen.
Ed

[Rogue]

no prob

hey by the way - i checked my email the other day ( old account ) and got your message - did you ever get your toyota control arm bushings straightend out?

thanks for the offer, i'm good for now - reached between legs and pulled on shoulders till i heard a popping sound! LOL

[Gawdzilla.]

ouch. sounds...uh, like something I need to do and just rebuild this motor already! Had a long talk w/my uncle and it's getting more n more something I think I ought to do to be sure this is reliable. I'm salivating over the thought of a 383.

we sold the toyota for 200 more than we bought it for, so I guess it worked out ok. Never replaced the bushings but I think since they were totally GONE that's what the problem was and the steering gear was ok. Thanks for the tutorial on that thing. Glad I never tried to make a living under THAT hood. crazy tight in there.

[andy d]

try this, blow the gas lines back into the tank. then put an in line filter near the tank. when you get a chance, drop the tank and clean it out.

[Gawdzilla.]

actually, I've got an inline filter near the tank. I've got dual tanks and a filter before the solenoid for each tank.
wonder if that's gummed up too. :(

[Gawdzilla.]

here's an update. got a loud CLACK when I went to start it this morning. did it 3x (consecutive start attempts), then it started ok. I can't figure where to start looking since it's underhood when I'm not. Sounds like a wrench hitting a moving fan.
cranking over w/HEI unplugged it just sounds like the starter is straining to turn but it turns at normal speed (kindy whiny crank)
fuel pressure/flow is normal, but the gas is almost orange.
still runs for crap/won't idle. but I'm afraid something metal is broke, so I shut it off. Pulled the valve covers again thinking I busted a rocker arm, but they look normal and operate the valvetrain like they should (visually) when running.

[ January 19, 2004, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Gawdzilla ]

[oldjeepr]

well hook up a remote start switch when you are under the hood you can crank it over,then you can pin point what is going on

[jode]

Physically grab the Harmonic balancer and make sure it aint loose.

Might try a see-through fuel filter to see if you are getting gummed up..

[andy d]

orange gas aint good. thats rust, prolly unrelated to the noise though

[carrotman]

While working on the carbs on my motorcycle, I've suspended the gas tank on a shelf and run a gas line to the carbs. Can you run a gas can directly to the carb and bypass the fuel tank, fuel pump, orange gas, and fuel filter? If it runs, you can clean out those other things.

[Gawdzilla.]

yeah, it runs ok on it and gas comin from the tank is clear. now I'm trying to isolate the clank. I did the remote start before oldjpr suggested it (duh- why didn't I think of it earlier?) and of course, it doesn't do it. turned couple times and fired up.
It also doesn't clank when the coil is unplugged. it'll crank and crank...no clank.
so I put a wrench on the harmonic balancer and turned it over- tough, but no noise or binding.
I've decided the clank is starter kickback- but what could cause that?

[Gramcracker]

It sounds like you have the gas problem under control, so I have a thought on your clank.
My wife drives a 96Grd Cherokee with 117,000 on the inline 6's clock.
Last summer I began to hear a ever so faint knock. At frist I thought that it was a rocker, then with alittle more volume it sounded like a rod. I began to panic as we still own on the Cherokee. Took the truck to the best Mechanic I know and while the Cherokee was runnin he began to pull each Inj. one at a time. (Thus taking the fuel out of the power stroke of the motor) When he got to the 6th Inj. the nosie went away like you turned it off!
He concluded that it was a bad wriste pin, makeing a clack when the piston fired.
Upon tear down we discoved that it was actually a cracked and falling apart Piston.(Piston was in about 12pcs.)When we looked at the Bore it was worn oval, so we concluded that the play in the bore must have over time cracked the piston.

Althought the vechicles are nothing alike, you may try to pull plug wires one at a time to see if the clack goes away.
Justa shot, hope it helps....

[Rogue]

pull that baby and 383 it!!! just don't buy the cast crankshaft its really tempting cause its cheap but i've seen two of them break personally

[Gawdzilla.]

Originally posted by Rogue:
pull that baby and 383 it!!! just don't buy the cast crankshaft its really tempting cause its cheap but i've seen two of them break personallyyep. that's the plan now- just went and reaffirmed my findings. key off, bypass solenoid and no clank.
key on- something in there is jamming the motor hard enough to throw sparks off the bendix gear.
#8 new plug had oil on the threads- what I thought was black varnish before -that a clue? smile.gif
didn't even wanna start this time so in the next couple weeks I'm gonna pull it.

[Gawdzilla.]

btw- thanks for your thoughts gramcracker. that's pretty much what I expect to find in there.

[Rogue]

if money not issue than build a 6.0 rod 383, more dwell at TDC can run a pretty aggressive cam and still maintain good idle plus corrects one of biggest SBC flaws - rod ratio

[Gawdzilla.]

educate me. Money is an issue, but time isn't.
I know so far I'm gonna need a 400 crank, harmonic balancer and flexplate(?)...
maybe some clearance issues?
that's all I know so far. This is my learning phase so I wanna soak up as much info as possible before we get ready to build it.
my uncle is a ford guy and has built a few motors so he's gonna be my advisor. so far he's instructed me to buy the peterson book. can you recommend a good read?

[Rogue]

can't help on the good read, i learnt hard way

cast crank will be fine if you don't go to high on compression or RPM and buy a quality balancer, and will save you bunches of monies, you most likely have 5.7 inch long rods in your chebby already, will work just fine

yep, crank, balancer, and flexplate

get crank before you take block to machine shop, drop it in the main bearing saddles ( old bearings fine at this point ) rotate crank will be obvious where you need to notch oil pan rails, 1/8" clearance is plenty

biggest problem with 383 build is oil usage, you are increasing the displacement of a block with a PCV system designed for 350, what happens is not only do you increase the volume of air moved inside the combustion chamber you also increase the volume of air moved around in the crankcase - if you ever noticed on a "V" engine with clockwise rotation the PCV valve is always on the LH side ( as viewed from the front of the engine ) this is on purpose be sure to place your PCV valve on this side because of the clockwise rotation of the engine and the way the air moves around inside the engine - you can picure all the empty space inside an engine where air would flow - the air will flow in a counter clockwise fashion this corresponds with the crankshaft rotation - any how long story short you can use a windage tray to cut down on this and you can add external vent tubes that run from your oil pan to valve cover to alleviate the positive pressure in the crankcase or you can just add 1/2 qt every 400 miles or so, so don't be surprised if you're newly built engine uses oil its an idiosyncracy of the 383 - this problem is also compounded by the fact of the swept area of the piston - another lengthy subject...

to keep it simple just build it up with standard hi-po parts and you'll be just fine - also DO NOT use shop rags to wipe stuff off as you assemble an engine - it is something you'll do unconciously - be sure and don't, rag lint will clog up oil pickup and oil filter in a heartbeat - ask me how i know ;)

[Gawdzilla.]

pcv valve is supposed to be on the LH side- as in passenger side? Hmm....
someone didn't do that on this motor. But will on the new one. I'm assuming there's a "kit" of some sort for the vent tube since this is a known issue. I'll keep that in mind. and bookmark this post!
Good info there Jeff. Thanks.