timing frustrations

[chadlow]

I am having some problems with getting my truck in time. It's a 76 J-20 w/ a 401 auto.It does'nt have the electronic ignition anymore now it has points.When I get on the accelerator it huffs and puffs and kind of backfires. The manual I have says it should be set at 5BTDC.Well I hooked the timing light up and tried to get a good shot at the timing marks without loosing my hand in the fan.from left to right on the timing scale it reads 20 15 A10 5 and TDC.I'm guesing that I need to line the mark on the counter weight up with the 5 on the scale, is this right? I tried but the marks never line up excactly, it hops around, is that supposed to happen? I have the idle set at 700RPM, but it deos'nt stay steady. Is there something I'm doing wrong or is this a lost cause.

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

I THINK..... TO HAVE TO PLUG THE VAC LINE TO THE DISTRIBUTOR..... RIGHT!!! DID YOU DO THAT???? WHAT TYPE OF TIMING LIGHT DO YOU HAVE???.....GARY ;) ;)

[Sergio & Ulrike]

I dont know much about timing and such but can relate a personal experience.

My timing was very erratic. I would time it and it would jump around, my tach above 2500 would jump all over the place.

I replaced my dist with a reman unit and now my timing and tach are steady. When I removed the dist, I noticed that the bearings were worn and had lots of slop in them.

One other thing, did you just recently install your dist? Maybe, its not in quite right?

Hope this helps

[chadlow]

I did plug the vac line. do you plug the line or the nipple on the distributer, please explain. the light is one of those 30 dollar ones from autozone.

[64Trvlr]

Unplug the line to the dist at the carb, and plug the port on the carb. Then you should be able to set the timing. I usually put some white paint on the line on the balancer and the timing mark. Then with the engine running all you have to do is aim the light and turn the dist unitl the two marks line up. Be sure and set the dwell or point gap BEFORE you set the timing. After you set the dwell and timing you might want to adjust the carb. Good luck, keep us posted.
:cool:

[jeepguzzi]

so, what is going to happen if you don't plug the vac line on a electronic ignition equipped vehicle?? :confused: :confused:

[andy d]

one thing for sure,it wont louse up the point gap. :D the vacuum leak would prolly raise the idle speed a bit

[Veepster]

sounds like a defective dizzy...........

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

ON THE TIMING LIGHT..WHY I WAS ASKING I HAVE ONE THAT YOU PLUG INTO 110V OUTLET..I GOT WHEN I WAS 16...AND I HAVE THE + - BATT TYPE...WELL!!! TWO OF THEM..ONE INDUCTIVE ...OH!!THE 110V YOU CAN SEE WITH THAT THING IN THE SUN LIGHT....64 HE'S GOT IT TOGETHER ON THE ANS!!....A GOLF TEE WORKS GOOD FOR PLUGING VAC LINES...........GARY

[nograin]

If its anything like the AMC 360 Timing cover then the A stands for advance, not after and before.

See how the crankshaft and damper turn. Facing the engine, it should turn clockwise. So the marks are degrees before it reaches TDC. Thats how I figured out what was going on, then someone(s) here explained what the A is supposed to mean. Now I can help explain you smile.gif

[nograin]

Might also richen the carb mixture a tad, and see if it smooths out. (Turn the mixture screws in 1/8 turn or so and if the engine runs worse, then you may be on the border of too lean, so turn them out 1/8 turn at a time until it smooths out, 1/4-1/2 turn out on each should do it IF thats the case)

[chadlow]

Thanks guys I did all of the above and got the lines matched up, took it for a test drive and it is a puttering mess! It idles fine and when its in park if I rev it up it does'nt hesitate at all. but when I drive it the motor hesitates and backfires a little. So I bring it back and play with it some more, take it back out and it does the same thing. Now is it the farther you go before TDC when you get the ping, because I had it up to around 15BTDC and I thought I heard a ping. I can't tell if it's that or if it's a small leak from my header. I'm sorry guys for the trouble but I think I might be going crazy :mad:

[reddog]

When did it start running bad?? Sounds like it could be carb related. Have you changed the points and the condensor?? Give us nmore info on how the problem started.

Kerry

[ibnfe]

More advance makes the ping. How's the mechanical advance and springs? Too much advance makes big backfire. If one of the springs broke, that might cause it.

[andy d]

some one mentioned worn out dist shaft bearings. pop the cap and try to wiggle the rotor. if there is play then that must be addressed before the points will gap right. at that point i would go for an electronic set up.

[chadlow]

Ok I guess I could explain a little on how this all started. The truck was running perfect about a week ago, then I got a wild hair and decided to replace the points and condenser. the points were in need of changing. after I got them in I went on a drive to test them, the truck was running better than ever and then boom, nothing but backfires and it died. when I pulled the cap off the distributer the negative wire from the coil had came out of the clip on the new set of points. the old set had a clip with a screw to hold this in place. so instead of putting the old points back in I decided to rig the new set with parts from other old sets I have. well after this the truck would'nt run right since. so I started tinkering with the timing. and here I am now! :mad:

[reddog]

Check and make sure the points move freely and that the negative wire is not shorting out somewhere. I am guessing here but maybe condensor was damaged?? Also if you got a big backfire maybe your powervalve in the carb was blown. You have the 4300 motocraft carb??

Kerry

[ August 17, 2001: Message edited by: reddog ]

[243]

chadlow,

A distributor is around 50.00 bucks, loaded and ready to go. Just put your cap and rotor on (new right?) and don't look back.

My 76 Wagoneer with a 401 was electronic but slightly different than my 79 with the Duraspark or whatever the system is called...why mess with points and condensor, if you replace the distributor...do the TFI upgrade while your hands are dirty :D

[64Trvlr]

If you stick with points and condenser then I suggest that you put in a set of Blue Streak points and condenser. I still run points and condenser and have no problems at all, and no I haven't even considered changing to electronic ignition. Chad when you have problems like this , just go back to the last thing you did and start there. Put in a new point set and condenser, set the points then time it then if you need to adjust the carb. One other question are the coil, plugs and plug wires ok?
:cool:

[243]

64Trvlr...I suppose you like drum brakes and swampcoolers too :D

[nograin]

Blue Streak ignition parts are the way to go. I swear by them for any points system. Genuine Copper. Points are great. Especially when the distributor is up front wear ou can get at it. Sure they have their limitations. The big advantage is that you can limp home with bumble gum wrapper, and no ECU to ever go bad. :D

Sounds like its worth tossing in a new set and condensor.

Like was said, ping occurs when you fire the spark plug too early and for a moment the piston is knocked backwards.

Since its a stock vehicle, set everything to the specs given in book or engine compartment. If the distrib bearings are OK, check the advance mechanism by increasing the rpm and seeing that the timing really advances. Do this both for mechanical advance and vacuum advance. Prolly OK but if you need to go hunting for problems, there is another check on the distributor.

BTW. TFI upgrade requires the duraspark ignition system as a base.

[64Trvlr]

243
YUP.....................
:cool:

[chadlow]

Well guess what I did today, I put in a new set of Blue Streak points and condenser, bought a dwell meter, set the dwell at 30, checked the timing, 5BTDC on the dot and guess what guys, THE BEAST RUNS PEEEEERFECT!! THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR ALL THE ADVICE. smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

[64Trvlr]

Chad
Way to go!!! Gald to hear your Jeep is among the living again.

:cool:

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

GREEN RIVER IS RIGHT!!!!I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT DUAL POINT MALLORY FOR SOMETIME....IF I EVER GET TO WORKING ON MY WAG... STILL SETTING IN MY DRIVEWAY LIKE A SLUG.....NEXT WEEK IT'S.. ...WORK ON THE 85 VW JETTA MY DAUGHTER GOT FOR FREE!!!!YOU WOULD THINK THAT IF SOMEONE WAS GIVING YOU SOMETHING FOR FREE!!!!!!!... ..IT WOULD AT LEAST "RUN"....DON'T YOU THINK SO????? :confused: ""RIGHT"" ..ME!! smile.gif

[Slippery]

I DON'T KNOW, GEM...MY FREE '85 MERC RAN (NEEDED A BRAKE LINE & A TRANNY CABLE), BUT MY "FREE" WAGONEER DOESN'T...I'VE ACTUALLY PAID MONEY FOR STUFF THAT DOESN'T RUN, I TELL PEOPLE THAT "CARS ARE NO FUN IF THEY DON'T NEED WORK"...GOOD MINDSET FOR AN FSJ OWNER, EH?

P.S. Nice job, Chad! :D

[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: Slippery ]

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

JASON K...IT'S THE GOOD OLD AMERCIAN,PAST TIME.............. BUSTED KNUCKLES,BUSTED Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley AND BUSTED WALLET$$$$$$$$$$$........ ....GARY smile.gif