ok. really POED now! ok, not no more. i am happy.

[CowKiller]

as u know i have been having troubles with no spark. i tested coil. good. tested dizzy and pickup, good, tested ignition mod, good. Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley! i went over all the wires. good. even changed starting siliniod. what the h3ll am i not checking?
this thing got me so mad i threatednt to tow it to the yard, and allreaddy looking for a new CAR. not jeep.

[ February 01, 2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: cow catcher ]

[PAJEEPER]

Cow,
Thats weird there has to be something wrong somewhere. Maybe a wire is shorting out. If I was you I would just drop in a points dizzy and figure the electronic out later.

[ January 22, 2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: PAJEEPER ]

[turtlejoe]

Timing chain jump a tooth?? Broken?? I have no other ideas to help you out, but that's all I've got. Good luck and keep the faith!!!

[CowKiller]

thats my plan for now, but i aint even got the $ to do that. if i do thgat, i wana get it all rebuilt, and just run points. so it would cost about 90 bucks, to have rebuilt dizzy, new coil, and it all set up

[CowKiller]

timing is fine. I AINT GOT SPARK OUT OF THE COIL> NOTHING. NADA. arg

[ January 22, 2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: cow catcher ]

[PAJEEPER]

Oh I might have an idea. Have you checked the neutral saftey switch? Its down on the colum and prevents it from being started when in gear. It could be shorted. I beleive it is hooked to the blue solenoid wire.

[CowKiller]

but it cranks over fine. just no spark. i thought that stoped it from being cranked over?

[PAJEEPER]

hmmm maybe your right there. huh thats pretty confusing

[CowKiller]

YEA IT IS!

[CowKiller]

i g2g to a 4x4 meeting. be back in a few hrs. tell me what ya think.

[BurnsSide42]

Time to call it a parts rig and get another ;) right!
I'll see what was causing our 88 to have no spark, i forget right now....

[ January 22, 2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: BurnsSide42 ]

[Desert Beast]

try a new set of plugs(if you havent already) i had that prob w/ another car. everything had juice running through it then w/ new plugs it worked fine. hope ya get it running.

[BurnsSide42]

ha, that last post was 426 . . . a great HEMI engine.... random thought ;)

[BurnsSide42]

427 . . . need i say more ;)

[yukonj]

make sure your grounds are good.

[mdill]

OK, Cow

It can't be that tough, How do you know there is no spark ? , If you have a old or
spark tester hook it to the coil wire and ground its end, crank the engine and
see if there is spark ? NO, ok disconnect the brain box and tur ignition on, do you
have +12 on the + side of coil ? NO find out why, the wire should go to two places
one as mentioned to the solinoid (To get full +12 during crank) the other side goes though
a resistor wire (inside the harness) and to a switched +12 (I think it is the same as the
wire used for the electric choke). If you have +12 on the + terminal, take a chunk of
wire and momentarily ground the - terminal do you get spark ? NO, replace coil, YES
then it is in the pickup-> brain box side of things
1) check the connectors and clean them both at the dizy and at the brain box
2) You are going to have to go further in the flow chart than I can rember off hand.

Mike D.

[joe]

If you pull the dizzy cap off and crank the motor over does the rotor turn? If it does is the rotor lined up on #1 cyl wire at TDC on the compression stroke?

[ January 22, 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: -joe ]

[CowKiller]

ok dizzy turns. i have no spark coming out of coil. 12 volts to the coil. yes. i have tried to ground the coil by using a jumper wire. still no spark. some one told me about an ignition switch on the colum. could that be it?

o yea, plugs are new. but not even getting spark to em.

[shadowfax101]

Let me see...since you have nothing coming out of the coil I would say it would have to be one of three things.

1st thing is...bad coil..Now I know you said you tested it, I had one go bad right out of the box. I got the correct resistance when tested with a volt meter, but I replaced it and it worked fine..

2nd. The coil wire to the dizzy cap. If that 12 inch wire is out you will not get any spark out of the coil. One has broken on me before...I was running cheap 7mm..worth a look.

3rd. The Ignition Mod...as I understand it the coil builds up the volts but the field it generates has to be collapsed inorder for it to discharge the voltage, the signal for the collapse comes from the Ignition mod. If you are getting volts in and the coil is good, maybe it is missing the signal to collapse the field that the coil generates..

but I would check the top coil wire to the dizzy cap for resistance first..

Or I could be wrong...

[Rent-A-Cop]

forgive me here ive got a dumb question. do you have an hei dizzy?

[CowKiller]

no. stock dizzy
the wire is fine. no spark out of top of coil.
coil is good. tested it with a old coil tester. it wasnt even on the motor. i have 2. ried both. still no.

next.

[andy d]

hot wire the coil directly from the battery to eliminate the ignition switch as a problem.

[Smooshy]

I'll give you 50 bucks for the jeep :D

[turtlejoe]

Sounds like Smooshy may know the answer ... :D ;)

[CowKiller]

the coil has power to it. if i ran a jumper from the neg side of coil to a ground. should it start or no?

[bvibert]

If you run a jumper from negative on the coil to ground you should get a spark out of it. The engine woun't run with it like that... This would be a test to determine if your coil is good or not...

[ January 23, 2003, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: bvibert ]

[CowKiller]

ok now the stunner. i have power to coil witt key on. i run a wire from neg to a ground in this case ground on battery. still no spark. i didnt test to see if the power toi coil depleats itself when turning over. would/could this happen?

[Robber80]

I'm gunna ask my instructor in class tomorrow, and see what he says. anything could help.

[andy d]

could you have 3 bad coils?

[CowKiller]

well i got one from my nahbor. he knew this one is good
hooked it up. nothing.

ok i did some tests. hooked up coil. ran a test light from ground on bat to + on coil. light lights.
ran test light from - on coil to + on bat. light went really bright. cranked it over with it like that. no blinky light. i know the pick up in the dizzy is good. so now what?

some body also said somthing about a ignition switch on the steering colum. could this be it?

[fredws]

Sure sounds like the trigger wheel in the dist. or the pick-up. Not trying to be a smart asp, but how do you know the pick up is good?

[CowKiller]

had one of my dads friends test it. he rebuilds dizzys.

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

OHMS!!!! I'M A OHMS TYPE OF GUY!! I SAY OHMS THAT SUCKER TO DEATH!! START AT REAR BUMPER!!! AND WORK FORWARD>>>>>>>>>>>> :D

[CowKiller]

gary, u come and do it. right now it is 5* outide. -10 with wind chills. and i am working outside. :( i aint doing that now. u can mr tropical

[ January 23, 2003, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: cow catcher ]

[BurnsSide42]

get a heater ;) or some pocket warmers... ;) what, you don't love your Jeep....tsk tsk tsk

[Baldy]

Ign switch...have you tested it?

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

Originally posted by cow catcher:
gary, u come and do it. right now it is 5* outide. -10 with wind chills. and i am working outside. :( i aint doing that now. u can mr tropicalJUST ONE SECOND ...MR.COW..HELL I LIVED IN GOOD OLD PA FOR 40 YEARS!! I WORKED IN SUBZERO WEATHER!! ALL THE TIME :rolleyes: OH-YA!! IN HEATED BODYSHOPS redface.gif ...SORRY! smile.gif

[CowKiller]

no i didnt. i also was told today to check the ballist resistor. where is it on mine. i know it is inline, but in what vicinity?

[JeepBountyHunter]

Dang don't work in the cold it's -10 here too...Heck I think your spark froze!!!

[BIGYELLOW78J10]

Um, I think the only resistor is an inline resistance wire on the "on" loop of the switch settings. But smarter people who didn't drink to much at a hovckey game will answer that.

I have had trouble with my ignition switch of late on my wag. So I start the wag from inside the engine compartment. Put on gloves, grab a big screwdrive, preferable craftsman so you can return it if you set it on fire and bridge the two terminals on the the starter solenoid closest to the front of the truck. It may not make a difference, but it could tell you if the ignition switch, or one of the safety lockouts is bad. The circuit used in the on position is different than that used in the start position. Good luck!

Daniel

[Retro93]

You will find the resistor wire in the large wiring harness that comes forward from the firewall.It then runs across the passenger side of the engine to the coil and other accessories. One end of the wire is attached to the 10 gauge red wire that comes off of the large firewall connector. The other end is attached to the + coil of the terminal. If the resistor wire is bad, the truck won't start. You want to look for a wire that has a covering on it that looks like rope braid...not vinyl. Bypass [jumper] the wire and see what happens. :D

[BurnsSide42]

if this many "hands" can't save your jeep corey, i say put her out to pasture ;) i kid, i only wish i could help ya, but i can't so good luck, i will continue to make these wise Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley comments every so often just to keep you on ur toes smile.gif

[Desert Beast]

three words for ya... Multiple Spark Discharge!!! you won regret going to all MSD ignition. quit screwing around w/ all this stock crap. step it up a notch. :D :D

[oddfire]

maybee you should read my post about MSD first..........phil

[Retro93]

Oddfire,

I had trouble with an MSD too. :( My MSD Digital 6 Plus went south for unknown reasons. I returned it to them and they replaced it for free. But anything that you pay that much money for should work for a long time. Not go less than a year and then crap out. :mad: I'm hoping that I just got a bad one. ;)

[CowKiller]

aint got the $ right now. read above. lol

[Desert Beast]

ive had nuthin but quality service w/ my MSD stuff. maybe i should keep my eye on it though. wouldnt want to be stranded...

[Bob Barry]

Did you say that you have no voltage to the coil when cranking???

If so, then the wire that bypasses the resistor wire may be fried or disconnected at the starter relay, or the connection in the starter relay may be bad.

Check the continuity between those wires (it's one of the two smaller wires going to the studs on the starter relay).

[reddog]

To go further on Bob's idea what about the solenoid. I forget, was it replaced.

The other thing that came to mind is the wiring to the ignition module and/or the distributor. Since you have swapped/check so many components that leaves wiring.

Kerry

[billyrb]

Any solution yet?

[shadowfax101]

I know you said that you tested the ignition mod, but have you replaced it with a good one just to make sure...

If you know your coil is good, if you know your dizzy is good, and if you know the ignition mod is good, it must be a bad wire some where.

If you are just missing power to the plugs then I would swap in a second igniton mod to make sure then I would check the wires from the coil to the igniton mod and up to the dizzy...

There are not really that many parts to check.

[CowKiller]

ok. i do have 8 volts to coil with key on. 12 cranking.

now if i take a testlight from the + on the batt. to the - on the coil. shoild it light up? shouldnt it flash when cranking?

[shadowfax101]

I am not sure if it should light up or not, but I know the neg. side of the coil runs to the ignition mod so it can ge grounded and it causes the electric field that the coil generated to collapse and that sends the volts out the top. So I guess yes you should see a light if you gound on the neg. side...

If you do not get a light I would check to make sure the ignition mod is good, and that the wires are good.

If all that checks out I would have to say it is the pickup. The pickup tells the ignition mod when to tell the coil to let out the voltage. So if the pick up is bad the whole chain of events will be stoped..

[CowKiller]

changed the ignition switch. no avail.

did a wierd test.took a wire from the + on batt, to the post on the siliniod that goes to the coil. was just taping and pulling away. but when i did it, it would spark from the coil to the mount. not from the top, but threw the bottom. bad coil?

[mark32725]

Probably the Ignition module but I replaced my setup with a Mallory Unilte distributor that uses a infra red led and a wheel that spins around t with slots cut in it for the light to shine through, pretty simple setup leds are really tough and last a loooooooong time...only 3 wires to hoo up and no more ignition modules or boxes required, and it has never given me any problems going through water....

[andy d]

hmmn. the case of the coil should be grounded to the engine block. yeah, it sounds like that coil has an internal short to the case.

[CowKiller]

btt help

[CowKiller]

ok whats this, we all gona leave me here. i ned to get it runnning sorta. i hatye driving the suzuki sami.

[joe]

Well...there's no money back warranty subscribing to this site. I think most of are out of suggestions. If you're getting power to the coil but not from the coil then you need to be concentrating from the coil onward I would think?

[shadowfax101]

I still say you should swap in a new ignition mod...

Other than that it must be bad wiring...

If not the ignition mod then it must be the pick-up. One of these two will be out...

If you are getting volts to the coil, all you need is for the coil to discharge. The signal comes from the pick-up goes through the Ignition mod and then to the coil...

[CowKiller]

the ignition mod is good. i put a new one one. no reply from coil. had new one tested, works fine. i am haveing a jeep guy come over today to help. he is on here, but rarly. flybear.

[Kimbrough]

Yo Cow!
Sorry I didn't read your post earlier.
READ THIS:
http://www.ifsja.org/tech/electrical/hmmm.shtml
Scan thru it but pay careful attention to the last paragraph.
There is an "ignition switch" mounted below the steering column under the dash that goes bad. Read that article and check it out.
Good Luck!

[Joe Guilbeau]

Hey,

Don't get emotional, get logical.

There is a simple cause and effect solution to your problem.

I am guessing that you have the Solid State Ignition, with the following wires on the ignition module...

One side of Ignition Module..

Green...Goes to negative side of coil?
Orange...Goes to Distributor
Purple...Goes to Distributor
Black...Goes to Distributor

Other side of Ignition Module..

Red/White or Yellow (on later models)...Goes Ignition Switch and Positive side of the Coil and Electric Choke, then continues to the Starter Relay Solenoid Post.

Light Blue...Goes to Ignition Switch and Positive side of Battery

Are all of these wires correct and do they all have continuity from one point to another?

Disconnect the battery and put an ohm-meter on each wire and have some one wriggle them, to check to see if there is an open in the wiring.

Now go to the Red/White (or Yellow) wire on the Ignition Module, and see if +12Vdc is present when the Ignition Switch is turned to the on position (not start).

If battery voltage is present, disconnect the Distributor Coil connector, and check the resistance between the purple and the orange wires or the blue and white wire (depending on year model), there should be 400 to 800 ohms.

On inductive ignitions there will be only two wires from the distributor, and there should be about 1.5 ohms to 2.5 ohms resistance.

In some cases, the connectors do not make good contact, so spray with WD-40 and use a toothbrush to clean all contacts.

If these tests check out, it is the Ignition Module or the signals are not getting back and forth through the wiring harness and plugs.

With the ballast resistor remove the positive terminal from the resistor and measure the resistance from the terminal (Red/White or Yellow Wire) to the the ignition coil. Now measure the resistance of the Ballast resistor or the Resistance Wire itself, they should be within 0.5 ohms of each other, if not, replace the ballast resistor or the resistor wire. Ballast resistor for V-8 engines should read 1.35 Ohms, and the resistor wire should read the same.

Remove the Ignition coil and inspect for cracked case, clean whith WD-40 and look for cracks. Clean the corrosion from the terminals, and warm the coil to about room temp, the resistance should read 1.13 to 1.23 ohms on the primary side of the coil, and 7.0 to 13 k-ohms on the secondary side.

If this doesn't help, shoot me an e-mail, I have a mechanic dude who know all there is to know on these systems.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Hey,

One last thing, if you you have +12Vdc going to the positive side of the coil (with a voltmeter measure from the plus terminal of the coil to ground), then you can now remove the coil wire from the center of the distributor and have someone hold 1/4 inch from ground. Now take a wire and ground the negative side of the coil to ground. There better be a big spark, if not, then your coil is defective.

If that test is OK, then either the distributor is not getting the Ignition module the correct signals or the ignition module is not grounding the Green wire on the negative side of the coil, to collapse the magnetic field on the secondary coil windings, thereby causing a large electro-magnetic pulse to generate a voltage on the secondary coil windings....ie...spark to the distributor,

Joe

[CowKiller]

hey. i hate electric. i have no idea wht u just said joe.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Shoot me an e-mail, we need to talk...

Guilbeau's "My Name"...Electronic's "My Game"...

Seriously, we can diagnose it in no time.

joe_guilbeau@yahoo.com

[Joe Guilbeau]

I am not sure how to respond...

Joe

[CowKiller]

ok, how do u want to break this down? i dont have any tools to measure power, just a cheap test light. i do know the coil has power to it, and more power when cranking.

[FSJeeper]

2 things you may want to check. Nuetral saftey switch a=on the transmission and the gear selector setup in the steering column. Sometimes the wires come off the nuetral safety switch and it is simple as just plugging it back in. Also, if your selector has worn in park, try starting it in nuetral. This happened to me once and it drove me crazy figuring it out, swapped the column and no probs.

[CowKiller]

no it cranks over fine. no sparky.

[FSJeeper]

It will still crank fine, just no spark. Check the nuetral safty switch and gear selector just to be sure.

[regrow]

i know what your going through. I replaced my whole ignition system and Ive been having similar problems since. My truck seems to be eating up any new part i put in it. Now I have no spark and I'm just letting it sit in my garage until I have some money to replace the whole system with msd products. Be cautious with new parts they are not always good. I bought a pick-up coil that lasted two days and after replacing it I think it is that again. No spark at the coil seems to be a pretty common thing but no one has a good answer because it could be several things. My guess on your truck is that it is either the pick-up coil or the module. By the way I live in whitehall, pa so if you find a solution tell me where you got parts...

[CowKiller]

i hate this thing(can i say that here?) it has put me threw so much. i resurected it, and it died again.

[Lindel]

ok. i do have 8 volts to coil with key on. 12 cranking.

now if i take a testlight from the + on the batt. to the - on the coil. shoild it light up? shouldnt it flash when cranking? yes, with the ingition to start, the neg side of the coil should show a pulsing 12V signal. this is directly from the pickup coil in the distributor. no flash, replace the dist pick up coil. about $15 from the parts store

[Mavawreck]

Originally posted by cow catcher:
i hate this thing(can i say that here?) it has put me threw so much. i resurected it, and it died again.i hear you guy, i just replaced the ignition module and fixed the accelerator pump so i can figure out where my coolant leak is and take it apart again. If you keep fixing yours I will keep fixing mine. I was having problems with the original coil. Im not sure if yours is the same but i had this cheesy plastic cap on top of mine that the contacts went through and i was not reliably getting a connection. I also think my little metal doohicly that silences the radio on the side was arcing too. I know you bought new one but it was my module in the end. The hanes manual and a fellow member helped me immensley. Im not sure if you have a voltometer but it would definitley be worth the money, even for a cheap one

[ffej]

Hey Joe...

You seem to know quite a bit about these things...is that capacitor/resistor needed or is it just a radio deal like some (most of whom are having trouble with their TFI upgrades) think it is.....this has been an ongoing question for quite some time...thanks in advance.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Fellas,

Let's not make it more difficult than it really is.

I will go thru a Solid State Ignition (for FSJ's from about 1979 on...).

What you have here is a basic Solid State Ignition system designed to replace points in a mechanical distributor.

These systems have been on Ford's since 1973 or so.

These systems perform the same function that the points that they replace performed.

The coil primary winding is grounded at the appropriate time (this is done by the Green wire coming from the Ignition Module in order to charge or apply voltage to the primary side of the coil) and replaces the mechanical grounding that the points previsiously performed. (Which brings up a point, make sure the Distributor wiring is grounded properly!)

Now, how long does the primary coil get grounded?
Well, for mostIgnition Modules, you cannot change it, it is set. The timing is set so the coil primary winding is grounded at the appropriate time, and for the appropriate length of time in order to charge the primary side of the coil.

As soon as the coil is charged, the Ignition Module opens the coil (by breaking the ground on the Green Wire from the Ignition Module to the Negative side of the coil, ie.. opens that wire.)

Since it is no longer grounded, the the primary side of the coil magentic field collaspes and the magnetic collasping field induces a voltage into the step-up secondary windings of the coil, thereby generating a large voltage...ie...spark!, when bridged across an appropriate air gap, such as a properly gapped spark plug.

The timing of this opening and grounding of the Green Wire (to the Negative side of coil) is controlled by the Distributor's stator and reluctor. Rotating the distributor clockwise or counterclockwise, changes the timing of the opening and grounding of the Ignition Modules Green Wire to the coil.

Previsously, the Dwell (controlled by setting the gap in the points) is now fixed and non-adjustable by the Ignition Module.

So now you might say, "Well, Joe....this is all good and well, but how in the heck do you troubleshoot something like this?"

Well, understanding how the system works will simplfly troubleshooting, but is not vital to solving ignition woes,

So, lets get to the problem solving portion...

We must have the correct tools...(Jumper Wire), so at the wiring on the Ignition Module the following should be observed...

With the Key to the "On" and not the "Start" position, at the Ignition Module wires...

Battery Voltage should appear on the Red Wire, use a multimeter or a 12Vdc taillight bulb to comfirm. This is the two wire connector...

Battery Voltage should appear on the White Wire when the key is turned to "Start"

Black Wire should be grounded well, on the 4-wire connector.

If the above tests are correct, then pull the coil high voltage wire from the center post of the distributor and hold the metal 1/4-inch from a good ground. With the key on, tap the distributor sharply with a screwdriver, a hot spark should show, it might be weak. Turn the key from on to off several times, the spark should show each time the ignition is turned off on a properly working system.

No spark?... then unplug the 4-wire connector (harness side) to the Ignition Module and using a jumper wire, connect the Black and the Green wire on the wiring harness connector to each other in order to ground the coil (Green Wire) thru the wiring harness. Now turn the ignition switch to the "On" position and not the "Start" position.

At the coil, the (+)Terminal should be reading 6-8Vdc thru the Ballast Resistor or the Resistor Wire in the Wiring Harness. If you test with the taillight bulb, it will be somewhat dimmer than when checked across the battery.

At this point, it is a good idea to check for a voltage present between the jumpered Green and Black wire and a good known ground, any voltage reading whatsoever indicates a badly grounded Ignition Module.(Check the Distributor Ground here as well, as some systems ground the Ignition Module thru the distributor wiring).

The ballast resistor or resistor wiring is placed there in order to limit the voltage at the coil to 6-8Vdc when the ignition is initially turned on, when the key is turned to the start position, the wiring bypasses the ballast resistor or resistor wire and applies the full battery voltage to the coil primary winding.

Hope some of this helps those of you having problems.

Do like I did, and replace the distributor with a Mallory Series 47 Vaccum Advance Optical Led Distributor and a Master Blaster coil. Simple, easy to troubleshoot with a credit card and reliable. (Although the surge protector consisting of a diode, resistor and a capacitor, is recommended).

Well, there it is in a nutshell, the key when turned on, sends 6-8Vdc to the (+)Terminal of the coil, the (-)Terminal of the coil is grounded. When the distributor is turned, it opens the ground wire thru the Ignition Module and collaspes the Primary magnetic field on the coil, thereby inducing a collasping magnetic field over the secondary coil windings, and generating a larger voltage, which is sent to the distributor, to be passed along to the spark plugs via the rotor cap and spark plug wires.

Pretty simple, when understood.

I think most of the above is correct, some of the colors of the wiring on the Ignition Modules may vary slightly.

Joe

[CowKiller]

this sounds funny. I WANT POINTS!

i will reply again to this thread on sunday, when i will find out if i can junk this chero. i might be getting a 83 j10. the stuff i would keep of the chero, lift, tires, bumper, and small stuff(cb,radio,ect)

[Desert Beast]

all i can say is, MSD!!!!!!! itll solve all your problems. sure its a bit pricey but itll be worth every penny.

[miked]

Lets get alittle reality check going here.

Joe is spot on with his suggestions, you can't just go willey nilley (gotta love a post where you can type willey nilley!) into the electrical system and expect to find the problem. You have to step thru it one area at a time in logical order. His 2 long posts (looks like he spent quite abit of time putting those posts together too) about what to do look to be great troubleshooting directions. Print them out and go thru them step by step and get him some specific/detailed feedback on each step so that you can get the problem fixed. This isn't magic, there is a breakdown in a circuit somewhere. Just because "hey. i hate electric" does not mean its beyond your capabilities to fix. Its a Jeep, you'll need to learn something new to keep it running, get used to it.

All it seems that you've done (or at least provided feedback about) is that you have 12v/8v at the coil, and that there is no spark at the plugs. Thats a great first step, now its time to take the second and third steps. You've asked the group for some help and gotten a ton back, but done nothing with it other than to b*tch abit about your problem and your disdain for all things electrical. Invest $20 in a small meter and get something other than "a cheap test light", its not realistic to expect to fix an electrical problem with a test light in a solid state ignition. If it was a motor problem you'd have invested a ton of $$ into tools, etc by now to fix the problem (and been pretty happy to have the excuse to buy new tools too!).

You will be pissed beyond belief if you junk the jeep and then 2 weeks later find that the guy at the junkyard fixed it in 1/2 hour by going thru the electical system and then sold it for a profit to someone who now drives it happily.

Take a breath, heat the garage, and spend a moment to troubleshoot a problem that will more than likely require either a foot of wire, or a $20 part before you junk the jeep - who's to say that the next one you buy won't have worse electrical "issues"? I say you dance with the girl that brought you to the party for awhile longer.

As an alternate plan to following Joe's troubleshooting steps, there are traveling auto electrical repair technicans who will come to your house. suprisingly, they are not too expensive. I've used them 2x - once on an old datsun pickup that ended up having a shorted wire between coil and distributor that drove me crazy, he found it in 10 minutes. I used him when i was poor as could be, in San Diego in the Navy while living off base. Had $0 to my name as a lowly enlisted man (the irony here is that i was trained as a helicopter electrican...) and was living off of ice cubes and uncooked pasta over the weekends cause i couldn't afford to eat anywhere other than the messhall for lunch during the week. It ended up being a great thing to have somebody do it for me.

If you have somebody come out, make some notes about what you have done to date and what your findings were. have him give you a quote and let him know how much you can spend. worst case, invest an hour in his/her work and let them see what they can find. these folks are excellent and quick at what they do -- at the end of the day auto electical is pretty d*mn simple, do it for a few years and its like changing your shoes, you can do it with your eyes closed. if they can't find it in an hour then you really do have a stumper, but i'd bet you $10 that they'd be able to find the problem within 30 minutes.

A quick Yahoo check of auto electric shops near Quakertown (http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypResults.py?stx=auto+electric&stp=a&tab=B2C&city=Quakertown&state=PA&country=us&msa=6160&slt=40.441120&sln=-75.341721&cs=4&Submit=Search) shows 27 shops within 20 miles. Somebody in those 27 shops will either be able to come see you, or they will know somebody who they can refer you to who can.

Good luck, I really hope you get it fixed. Let me know if you want to take the bet...

[ January 31, 2003, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: miked ]

[CowKiller]

no, if i get this j10, the motor, lift, tires, and other acesories will come off it. it will prety much be a body and frame. i was thinking to see if the dud at the yard will take in for the rhino grill i saw in there.

sunday i will find out about this j10. so untill then. calm down. it can sit in the driveway.

[ January 31, 2003, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: cow catcher ]

[DeLorean]

I bet I could fix it ;) all I would need it the original wire diagrams and my multi meter. it's obviously a simple electrical problem not the whole engine. why spend all that $$$ for a new jeep when your problem is simply a bad wire somewhere. you have the 79 all set up the way you like it, just FIX the **** thing already. I'm sure with a free day, my multi meter, and the wire diagrams I could get it to run. my Impala has had all sorts of problems like this. The thing was already 20 years old when your Cherokee was brand new. each time it has broken I have managed to fix it myself, it can't be as hard as all this... the basic principal is that you are not getting power (or not enough) to something that needs it. another problem could be water in the wiring harness that has made the wires go haywire. all you need to do is figure out what’s not getting power and why, then FIX it! :D

[PAJEEPER]

Yeah Cow let Delorean fix it for ya. There is a way, it can't be that bad. Dont part it and dont trade it for a dumb rhino either.

[CowKiller]

i want to gwet rid of it. it wont pass farking pa inspection again, and i always wanted a jtruck. i am gona take my lift and tires off the chero, put them on the j10, pull bumper, cb, radio, other small things, put them into the j10, and the motor, i was gona pull it and build it up, eventually putting it into the j10, unless burnside wants it for his wag. i would sell it to him. the rest would either be parted out, ot sent to a yard. it isnt worth fixxing again. i know it has been here for a year almost now, feels like longer, but it is time i belive.

jeff, if u want to come and try, be my quest. there is a guy coming sunday to try and fix it, the same guy i am gona get this j10 off of.

and no i cant keep 2 of them. i tried that one. we have a
83 bronco-dead, blown rear
69 c-10- runing, no title
87 s-10 blazer- blown motor
88 iroc camaro- needs to be rebuilt
81 caprice clasic- runs everyday dads car
02 saturn- dads g/f car

we ran out of room. i have no garage, no more room to put anything, and the neighbors are starting to complain cause the cars never move. i dont have the money to fix any of them, and they wont let me sell any. i really dont like being in this prediciment, but everyone gets it sometimes.

well time to go sleep in the jeep tonight, say my final thoughts maybe. i might not get rid of it. if this j10 looks like crap, runs like crap, or needs alot of work, i will keep mine and sell it in june, when the inspection is up.

if i traded it for the rhino, it would jut be a frame and body, no motor, axles, interior, ect.

[ January 31, 2003, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: cow catcher ]

[DeLorean]

won't pass inspection eh? that is always a problem. **** emission testing, and that's probably only the start of the problems getting an inspection for that thing. maybe it's time to go down to south street and get some fake stickers ;) got $45.00? I know someone that can probably get your jeep "inspected" well, he'll get you the stickers anyway :D

[CowKiller]

the floor is gona again.

[BurnsSide42]

Originally posted by cow catcher:
the floor is gona again.what is what now again? and i don't want a 360 sorry, still looking for a 401, or i will trade my current 87 for a much older jeep with a running 401 so i can avoid emmisions ;) Maybe Jeff and I can swing over sometime and see what we can do, the three of us can get that thing running and good too i bet. Just have some napa and Pep Boys money on hand ;)

[ January 31, 2003, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: BurnsSide42 ]

[oddfire]

Just think, when the j10s ignition craps out, you will allready have all this valuable info to go on.......................phil

[timmirvin]

Hey Joe!!

I sure wish I had your two postings this past summer!!!!! I spent two days with a test meter and a Haynes manual (and a little coomon sense) with the same problem as Cow Catcher. The info you have offered is freakin' golden!! Sure would have saved alot of cussing and headaches.....

Cow, calm down, go to Walmart, buy a cheap test meter (less than $10), grab a six pack on the way back, and with a little patience, isolate the problem and fix it.......

Tim

[CowKiller]

well, the meter sounds good, but the six pack might be hard to get. unless one of u buy it for me and ship it here. lol i am only 16.

[timmirvin]

Is it illegal to MAIL beer to a minor?

HMMMMMMMMM........

[CowKiller]

well, i dont know what i did, but it runs again. it this happenes again though, i need a new timing chain. we belive the chain jumped, but i really dont know why it wouldnt have any spark before. it all happebned at once!

[Dogs-in-the-back]

Don't drive it too far until you know what exactly what it was. you'll end up in the middle of an intersection on 309 with your hood up and a lot of angry people behind you!

[CowKiller]

yea i know. i drove it around town tonight, ran ok, but timing is way off. cant get on it hard or it will rattle like crazy.

[andy d]

sounds way advanced, did you mess with the timing?

[CowKiller]

thats what was wrong. timing was way off. it was firing the next piston at the time it should be back at the one before it.

[DeLorean]

simple, it heard you talking about getting rid of it and it healed. Always disconnect your cars battery before you start to work on it or it will hear you *****ing and cursing at it!! ;) no, no I'm not crazy. If I keep the impalas battery connected all winter it's aware of the passage of time and it runs like crap because it sat alone in a garage all winter and it knew what was going on!! ;) if I un-hook it it's like it went into stasis. runs great and it will start right up! okok, the real reason is because the battery is still charged and good, but hey, in 42 years, anything can develop a sole. hopefully not one like Christine’s :D

[CowKiller]

good movie. maybe that was it. me threating it. lol

[timmirvin]

Hey Cow!! Glad to hear you got it goin'! But sure would be nice to know what you did to get it runnin'.....

Keep us posted, like to hear how bad the timing is off.

Tim

[andy d]

just for grins check the firing order against what youve got. was somebody messing with it?

[CowKiller]

nope
it isnt the firing order. it runs ok now. having a york ac on there with the alternator. it is hard to see the timing marks. so for now i was just turning it a little till it sounded ok. still pings a little bit. but running alot better.
when we first found out it was off on the timing, it was off about a 1/4 turn on the cap.

[rockjeep44]

Wow, what a thread and it turns out the Jeep self healed (pretty much). I remember one time after I got my Holley EFI put on I spent days tweaking the computer and everything and it still ran like crap. I was so disappointed I was about to chunk the crap and go back to my carb. Turns out some Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogleyhole switched my plug wires while it was sitting in my driveway. I finally figured that out and it ran like a champ. But, I know how u felt cow. I was ready to throw in the towel.
-Andrew

[CowKiller]

it fixed it self. it heard me talking bout taking it to the yard.

[Jeepzilla]

Pinging means still way advanced. Not good to leave it that way. Figure out a way to read that timing scale and set it right.

[CowKiller]

as of right now i got the timing really close, but i was right. the timing chain is shot. figures. i was told the motor had 88000 when i got it. soundes more like 188000 now.

[CowKiller]

ok magicaly this thread popped back up. look at the times.