Truly Incredible ATF leak!

[illegalFSJ]

My new '78 wagoneer has now sat for 2 days and managed to produce an enourmous puddle of ATF. It's so big that it has spread from under my jeep to halfway under the car parked next to it. Looks like it just flat out dumped about 2 quarts. And it's made this puddle by just sitting there! Not even running!

The good news is that I know where it's coming from: The mating surface of the adapter and transfer case (quadra-trac). When we recently installed the 'case, we re-used the old gasket and slathered a bit of RTV on it just for a little extra insurance. Well, that hasn't worked at all.
As background info, I had a '77 J-10 (also Q-trac) that I removed and installed the 'case THREE times trying to get it to quit leaking. I tried a fresh gasket, then just RTV, then both - this last combo resulted in reducing the flood to a fairly minor leak, but didn't fully solve the problem. It would still make a silver-dollar sized puddle after every drive.
Now, I want to fix this massive leak on the wagoneer and I want to take this 'case out and re-install in only ONCE, and then never have to touch it again.
Who's got a fool-proof method to stop this leak?

I was thinking of trying an anerobic sealant like they use to glue modern IFS front diffs and transfer cases together with - used without a gasket. Think that'll work?

Thanks in advance for any advice on what worked for you!

[ September 30, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: illegalFSJ ]

[Chevelleguy]

Isn't there a seal around the trans output shaft that seals against the input shaft of the t-case?

[illegalFSJ]

There's a rubber seal on the transfer case itself, that does go around the output shaft of the tranny. But I thought that was just to prevent any mixing between Q-trac fluid and ATF...

[Chevelleguy]

On my 727/NP229 the t-case is sealed off. When removed, ATF leaks out of the trans because the input shaft of the t-case is not mated with the output shaft of the trans and therefor is not sealing off the trans. With a leak that large, you should be able to tell which unit is leaking, the trans or the t-case. My case only holds 3qt.

[FSJ Thing]

Weld it! That'll stop the leak!

In all seriousness, check the sealing surfaces to make sure that they are nice and flat, free of pits or scratches. Just use a good RTV and make sure that something is supporting both the tranny and the t-case when you bolt them together. If you have one supporting the other, or if they don't meet flush against eachother before bolting them together, the new gasket or RTV will get distorted by the pressure, and therefor not seal properly.

This is more of a side note, but check to see if the tranny bell housing has a crack in it, just to be sure.

[Joe Guilbeau]

Hey guys,

I once had my Tranny fluid flushed and the pan cleaned with the screen and topped up with a new cork seal, according to the Transmission Shop Experts...

Well, about a month later, we are towing my boat in the early morning hours to Port O'Connor from Austin Texas, when a car pulled up alongside us frantically pounding their horn and flashing their lights, and the shotgunner pointing to the nether regions of the Cherokee.

So, I take a look and reflected in the black paint job of the notifying vehicle are flames. Flames coming from underneath MY JEEP!!!

Turns out the tranny pan seal was spewing tranny fluid all over the Catalatic Converter, alongside my Aero 33 Gallon replacement tank.

Jammed on the brakes, and jerking the shirt off, I dive underneath the vehicle and burn myself slightly while my shotgunner grabs the fire extinguisher and douses from the passenger side.

Fun and games...gotta love those "Factory Trained Technicians" and "Certification Patches" worn so proudly by some...

[illegalFSJ]

Chevelleguy - if the transfer case was leaking, it would be Q-trac fluid, but it's definately ATF.

Wago Thing - How would a crack in the bellhousing create a leak between the 'case and adapter unit to the trans? But yeah, it's good to check. And would you recommend a new gasket, or RTV?

[gsmikie]

on the Qtrac there is a rubber o-ring on the output shaft before the adapter if it is bad it will leak from the weep hole in the adapter to stop a leak between the adapter and trans / transfer i use thick gasket material and halomar gasket sealer (napa)

[davez26]

Deja Vu. I've gone this route before. In the front of the transfer cae you should have two oil seals. When installed properly, one should be installed deep into the case and the other should be flush with the mating surface. You should also notice a small weep hole between the two seals. The seals should be pointing opposite directions to seal the two units. The theory of operation here is that if the seal towards front of the transfer case seals dies, it leaks out the hole and lets you know. If the seal towards the back of the transmission dies it leaks out of the hole and lets you know. The reason for the two seals is that if there were one seal, if it went bad, it would leak one fluid into another and trash both units. The big flat mating surface can be sealed with RTV or a gasket or whatever. What I've seen in the past, (and done), is either both seals are pressed together, causing a leak, the seals are simply bad, (don't go cheap), or you may have wacked them yourself. The way this happens is if you are installing the 'case and you let it hang down for even one second on the input shaft, you could have just put all that weight on the seal rim and tweaked it. Avoid this by cutting the heads off of a few bolts and thread them into the mounting holes to use as centering studs until you have the case firmly installed. Good Luck!

[jeepsr4ever]

can you say gaskacinch....LOL good luck bummer ATF isnt cheap

[Zac]

I dont mean to kidnap the thread but I just swapped from a np 219 to a 208 and all I did was just bolt it on. I havent filled the trans up yet but when I do will it leak?
thanks
Zac

[FSJ Thing]

Originally posted by illegalFSJ:
Chevelleguy - if the transfer case was leaking, it would be Q-trac fluid, but it's definately ATF.

Wago Thing - How would a crack in the bellhousing create a leak between the 'case and adapter unit to the trans? But yeah, it's good to check. And would you recommend a new gasket, or RTV?If you got a small crack that goes all the way to the tail end of the bell housing if could be hard to see. Due to thermal expansion, the crack would be biggest when the tranny is warming up or cooling down and be pretty much invisable the rest of the time. It'd cause the symptom of "park truck, dumps tranny fluid". All in All, it was just a thought. I'd just use RTV. Chances are the mating surfaces of both the tranny and t-case are not perfectly smooth, flat, and rust/pit free, so a gasket alone wouldn't seal good, and using a gasket with RTV would just be too much crap in between the tranny and t-case, so I'd just use RTV. Actually, being an overkill-I-don't-want-to-touch-this-again-as-long-as-I-own-the-truck kind of guy, I'd probably use the black permatex. Just make sure that the sealing surfaces are completely clean of any fluids, oils, dust, and any removable rust, before you put the permatex on.

[illegalFSJ]

OK, getting lots of good info here now.
How much disassembly is required to replace the 2 seals in the Quadra-trac case? Can I just throw the case on the ground, knock out the old seals and knock in some fresh ones, or is there some digging required to get to the "deeper" seal?

And I think I'll definately take davez26 advice about making some studs. I haven't done that before, and it's always leaked, so...
I just want to do it right once, and not touch it again. God knows, there's plenty else on this rig for me to fix without doing the 'case seal a few more times.

Thanks for explaining the porpose of the seal on the 'case. I saw it, but couldn't figure out how that may cause a huge leak. 'Course I didn't know there was a weephole, which is why I just kept trying to seal up the mating surfaces.

[davez26]

You get to pull the case and just pull them out. It's a little work, but nothing to bad. Be sure not to scratch the bore they go into and if you do, clean it really well and use enough RTV around the seal to fill the imperfection. If you look careful under the truck @ the parting line between the transfer and the mount adapter, you will see a thin slot about the width of a dime. That's the weep area. It goes up between the seals. I feel for you, I've been there.