Any welders out there?

[BK]

I want to look into welding sheet metal into place instead of using pop rivets. I don't have much in the way of rust but would like to repair it right. Is there a good inexpensive welder, what kind, how difficult is it to learn to use?
What's best for sheetmetal?

[wordsmith]

Here's my 2 cents: I weld about 2-3 times a YEAR for fixing stuff, so every time I start I'm lousy but after a few trys and errors the skill comes back OK. I was trained on gas in tech school but picked up arc fairly easy. BUT, my welds would never pass certifications, however they DO hold [all that metal I dump on]. Learning to keep the arc at the right height is tough unless you do it a lot, which most of us don't. You'll need to practice on scraps similar to what you'll be fixing first to get anywhere near good at it and see what you can & can't do on that particular metal. Also, get a good welding guidebook [$15-$30 is usual] or, better, a metal repairing guide [maybe costs a bit more] that explains soldering & brazing as well and more of the tricks & techniques. You'll need to learn about metals, rods, methods, duty cycles, etc., to be halfway decent at it, and get used to working 'in the dark' because the eye protecting filters are DARK until the arc lights [use a couple 100 watt spots focused on the workpiece to help you see, but keep them well away from splatter].

I used welding most to fix exhaust pipes on an old Ford Crown Vic. It got to the point that I was fixing a new hole every week. But I'll tell you, welding sheet metal, especially rusty and thinned out, is VERY hard since you always punch thru and have to fill in [if you can! keeps lots of rod handy]. There were times I had to fill in holes I made and couldn't close with aluminum solder & bronze brazing, which leads to my suggestion: try a good gas torch first, like a MAPP gas setup or a propane with a 'swirl-jet' [or some marketing language like that] that will give a hotter flame than the old-standby propane plumber's torch. They're much cheaper than an arc welder and may do a good enough job.

Try brazing & soldering first, especially on thin rusted metal, if you can clean up the worst of the rust down to good metal. [You'd have to do this for good adhesion with arc anyway.] You might even want to pop a few rivets to hold the metal in place, then bond the metal with whatever technique you choose. You always have to clamp thin metal together somehow 'cause torching or welding heats it and it will distort out of place at least a bit. Brazing can be very strong, but these heat methods can cook the coatings off surrounding metals if you take too long.

A MAPP torch should be under $40. A small portable oxy-MAPP torch might be better, more precise & hotter flame for faster work and you can cut thin steel with it, too; should be under $70-$80, but the ox cans get expensive to buy after a while. A decent home/hobby arc welder should be under $150, but make sure it can do at least up to 50-60 amps and is amp adjustable. That should do for body work & exhaust pipe, but welding frames will need more amps.

You can get basic welding gear at Sears, Home Depot, even some Wal-Marts now. I use a 20-year-old Dayton from Graingers that adjusts up to 100 amps and uses 115 Vac. That's important - you don't want to have to weld near the electric dryer plug all the time, so be sure you get one that uses ordinary house current. Even if it has a weird plug, you can make an adapter out of a socket, a plug, and some wire easily.

Sears [and others] sells something called contact rod, which is most of what I ever use. You just touch it to the metal and drag it with only a little arc so it's easy for us rank amateurs, and the welds are a bit sloppy but solid. But, you have to pay attention to the metal thickness, speed, etc. It'll take some getting used to, and rods will stick now & then. Welding is a skill, frustrating at times, but when you can fix something when you want where you want, and then it even holds together, it's a satisfying experience. The investment will eventually pay for itself, since most welders charge AT LEAST $20/hr if you bring it in and $30/hr for onsite jobs, and they won't appreciate you looking over their shoulders to make sure they do it like you want it.

Also, be prepared to spend almost as much on equipment & accessories as on the welder: you'll need thick leather gloves, chipping hammer, wire brush, lots of rod of different gauges for practice, I urge you to get a full helmet, you may need clamps that work like Vise-grip pliers but are oddly shaped; since this will be body work you'll need a good hand grinder [either an angle grinder or good variable speed drill and stones] etc etc. Go to a Sears and check them out, talk to someone there, then see if Wal-mart has some or all you need for less. I wouldn't spend on a Mig or Tig for simple work on steel, the cheapest is over $250 and then you need the wire & gases, etc. Gas welding outfits are about $150 for the torch & stuff and will do welding and cutting, but need the tanks & gases which are tedious to deal with & you'll always run out when you need it.

I'm glad I have a welder and it always has some work each year for it. But, MOST IMPORTANT, always use a helmet, NEVER look at the arc [that means not letting anyone else, especially curious kids and animals, see it either], always wear heavy long sleeves & pants even in summer [metal spalsh and arc burns are not fun], and remember you have enough electricity in your hand to kill anything instantly if it becomes part of the welding circuit. So enough of Welding 101. Good luck!

[Mikel]

MIG is a lot easier... I'm learning myself smile.gif

[River Beast]

Lincoln Weldpak 100..... best investment I have bought in tools yet!!!! No kidding!!!!

[talntar]

cant help with welding havent pluged mine in yet.
but i am interested in where in ct you are?

[Mikel]

Mine is a Hobart Handler 135 that I bought for $400 shipped almost two years ago, regulator and plumbing included. So far so good smile.gif

[xc_xtc]

umm, why not go with tape and putty for rust holes? Sounds like alot of money to fix a couple of holes.

[bvibert]

Originally posted by talntar:
...i am interested in where in ct you are?Good catch Walter, can't believe I missed that. Its good to see another CT FSJer on the board, Welcome BK! :D

Oh yeah I know absolutely nothing about welding yet so I can't help you with your actual problem, sorry...

wordsmith, that is one of the most informative, well thought out posts I've seen in awhile, good job! :D

[BK]

I have a couple holes in the rear floor that need some kind of covering, tape and puddy won't do it. Don't want the kiddies putting their feet through the floor. I suppose I can do some sheet metal and pop rivets and then paint and undercoat it.

[sloop]

I have never had any success using my stick welder to do sheet metal. I bought a little cheap Century 80 wire-feed welder specifically for doing sheet metal or any other light gauge fixes. They are very cheap but you can't convert them to MIG.

With a MIG/gas shield welder you will get cleaner-looking welds and less spatter, but flux core (no gas) wire-feeds do the job too.

[jnxmas53]

you can not use a mig/gas shield welder in windy conditions, the wind will blow the gas away, flux core wire is all i ever use.

[Stolen76]

FOCW... fiberglass over chicken wire, incredible stregnth ! use epoxy resin, fast cure hardener, and 4 ounce biaxial cloth, over the chicken wire, it will outlast your truck

[kidatforty]

I gas weld thin sheet metal situations. For your floor-board I would tack the sheet metal in, then fiberglass the interior and undercoat the exterior. If you need to use a wire welder then spot weld it. A continuous weld will usually burn through.

[J20 project]

Hmmmm, I must be really messed up, not only did I continuous weld my floor pans, I used my stick machine. Anyway, for someone just starting out, one of the 110volt mig machines are the ticket.
J20

[BK]

Hey that sounds better than pop rivets and sheet metal. Or how about fiberglass over the sheet metal, undercoating underneath? Maybe it won't stick though?

>>FOCW... fiberglass over chicken wire,

[wordsmith]

Suggestion for FG over sheetmetal;

1. Drill small holes across the sheetmetal [randomly, 3-6" apart is OK] and get some small flathead sheetmetal screws to fit them, the 'inverted cone under the slot' kind. Cheap steel will do or you can use SS to eliminate any chance of future rust.

2. Roughen the surface well with coarse wire brush, grinder wheel, etc. CLEAN IT VERY WELL with acetone.

3. Put on the FG. While it's curing, put the screws into the holes and spread the epoxy over the heads. Use a light behind the surface if you need to find the holes. Clean the epoxy off your driver promptly with acetone. Let it cure WELL.

4. If necessary, cut off the ends of the screws projecting thru the metal when FULLY cured, a Dremel w/cutting wheel is best, a grinder can put stress on the screws. Leave a couple threads projecting thru the metal, a few 16ths long. Voila, a reinforced FG/metal bond.

FG over metal alone will flex at different rates under pressure and eventually they will separate, leaving a void for moisture to live in. The screws will help keep FG & steel flexing together. You can use rivets, too, but it's messier' epoxy likely will clog the gun, and the pressure will mash the FG into dimples.

[wordsmith]

Suggestion for FG over sheetmetal;

1. Drill small holes across the sheetmetal [randomly, 3-6" apart is OK] and get some small flathead sheetmetal screws to fit them, the 'inverted cone under the slot' kind. Cheap steel will do or you can use SS to eliminate any chance of future rust.

2. Roughen the surface well with coarse wire brush, grinder wheel, etc. CLEAN IT VERY WELL with acetone.

3. Put on the FG. While it's curing, put the screws into the holes and spread the epoxy over the heads. Use a light behind the surface if you need to find the holes. Clean the epoxy off your driver promptly with acetone. Let it cure WELL.

4. If necessary, cut off the ends of the screws projecting thru the metal when FULLY cured, a Dremel w/cutting wheel is best, a grinder can put stress on the screws. Leave a couple threads projecting thru the metal, a few 16ths long. Voila, a reinforced FG/metal bond.

FG over metal alone will flex at different rates under pressure and eventually they will separate, leaving a void for moisture to live in. The screws will help keep FG & steel flexing together. You can use rivets, too, but it's messier' epoxy likely will clog the gun, and the pressure will mash the FG into dimples.

[Stolen76]

fiberglass sticks well to metal if properly repaired. like wordsmith said, screw it to it so it will flex at an equal rate. epoxy resin works better then polyester, but either will do the job. check out boat repair shops, or boat builder supply houses.

[packard41]

wire feed with flux core wire perfect for the home mechanic.rustoleum paint then fiberglass.it will never rust in our life.Don't forget the bottom side.

[timmirvin]

I bought one of the 110 Vac stick welders first. It worked, but I just could not get a pretty weld out of it on sheet metal. So, never wanting to shy away from buying another "toy"... I bought a wire feed/flux core unit.(I think I found mine at Walmart....around the air tools....)

If you shop around you can find a 110 Vac wire feed/flux core kit. It is perfect for very lite-duty things like sheet metal. It is pretty easy to learn to use.

Be patient and practice on spare pieces of sheet metal before you begin welding on your truck.

My 2 cents.......