Need to find 14FF info... (PICS UP!!!!).

[River Beast]

I have finally taken possession of my D60 and 14FF.... WHEW!!!! Long time in coordinating the delivery/timeframes....

Anyway... thanks to Scotty's find on the D60 tech stuff... I am covered there...

I need to find a source for the Corporate 14 bolt Full floating axle....

84 is the year and GM is the make... I looked up the Mitchells on demand CD PAck... al it shows is a Dana 60 rear... no 14FF

Any online info you have or know of a link... please pass it on...

I have already checked POR.... NOTHING

Thanks....

[ February 09, 2003, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: River Beast ]

[Crazy_Jeepman]

What sort of info are you after. I been reading up on them bit here and there. I really never seen anything to technical. I have a 14 bolt I may use in mine. I like the price of the Detroit locker and the ease of putting them in. Other than that I doubt there is much differance between the 14 bolt or the D60 as far as the mechanics of them go. I am still trying to find out how wide it is WMS to WMS I get conflicting information on that. The one I have is 75 miles north and under 3 1/2' of snow. If you have a moment and a tape, could you get that for me.

[River Beast]

Diagrams on breakdown of drum/bearings.... specs for re-assembly.... stuff like that...

My 14FF is 66-67" WMS to WMS...just measured can't get too accurate---shaking from the cold and need a other hand to steady it.... ;)

Any info you have, Pete.... I appreciate it

[FSJeeper]

RB, I have never found an actual GM service manual on the net, but there are a lot of articles. This is one of the best:

http://coloradok5.com/gearinstall.shtml

Also there are cheap military truck technical service manuals that are very detailed you can buy on CD which should cover the CUCV your axles came out of.

I look forward to you sharing your progress on the axles swap and good luck!

[scotty]

here are some WMS numbers i dug up awhile back:
SRW- 67.5 inches
C&C- 63.5 inches
dually pickup- 72 inches
van- 70 inches

the perches are 42.75" apart on the all the 73 and later trucks,and they are heavy smile.gif somewhere round 525 lbs with drum brakes(but you prolly knew that since you just paid the shipping ;) )

the internals are unchanged from the beginning until 88,when they updated the inner pinion bearing and crush sleeve,and some later models have differences in the brakes,some even having factory discs. everything elses is the same for all.

here is what else i know: the wheel bearis/hubs are held in with a keyway in the nut. if theres alot of funk you may not see the snap ring that keeps the keyway in place. i found this out the hard way redface.gif once the keyway is out,youll prolly be able to spin the nut off with a screwdriver,but youll prolly need the $30 socket in order to torque it upon reinstallation.

in order to change the rear seal and wheel bearings,they must all come out from the backside of the hub. remove the seal and inner bearing,then you can drive out the race,then the outer bearing and race.

the backlash and preload are set with little adjusting rings,a real slick concept if ya ask me :cool: no foolin with different thickness of shims. you will find that the diff will not come out until youve backed off the on these rings. remove the little bolt with the prongs on the bearing caps and tap the adjusters with a screwdriver(they prolly make a special tool,but i dont have it) i just spun each of mine 360* and then put them back to the same places after i installed the new gears. im by no means an expert,but the pattern i got from that looked pretty good.

i did not use any silicone on the pinion housing,as there are shims htere to set the pinion depth,and i feared a sealer of some sort would change things.no leaks to report.

i got my pinion seal and hub seal at the local 'Zone. they also stock the inner and outer bearings and races.at one time i had the slip with the part #s,but im not sure where it went.

i went with the factroy metal gasket for the axlesahft since i pull my shafts to flat tow it. these the 'Zone did not have,and i got them for a whopping $3.99 at advance auto.

for disc brakes i used derbinator from colorado k5( http://www.geocities.com/gettin_deep/disc.html ) i liked them cause he gives you a solid single spacer for the bracket instead of 4 small spacers.

last and not least i was able to shave alittle over an inch off of mine by going halfway into the bottom most bolt hole,and using allen bolts in the other bottom 4. ground clearance is only 1/2 inch less than my front 44(11" rear,11.5" front :eek: )

hmmm,thats about all i can think of off the top of my head. ill keep my eyeballs peeled for other tech stuff,and feel free to let me know if ya have other ques-im not an expert,but i have had it completely apart and back together smile.gif

[ February 07, 2003, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Sundowner]

the brakes are pretty much the same as any drum.
the gears are a cake walk to install. detriots are not as easy as you'd think, because you need to screw with the backlash spanners after you pull the case.
carrier break is 4.10 dowm, 4.56 up

the 14 bolt comes in a variety of widths from 64" up to 69" ish. the hubs are a little odd, I had to look at them for a miunte in good light to figure out how to get the bearings out.

what else do you want to know?

[Sambo]

hope we get a good write up as well todd...since you have done a great job on the mods before this one :-D

[RustyJeep]

If the carrier break is at 4:10, why did they use the same carrier in that article FSJeeper posted to put the new 4.88 gears in? It originally had 4:10's.

[scotty]

the factory 4.56 and up carrier is pretty uncommon. for this reason most of the aftermarket 14 bolt gears youll come across are "thick" style,meaning they will work with the factory 4.10 and down carrier.

further questions? smile.gif

[River Beast]

Thanks for all the info guys...

Thanks for the keyway info Scotty!!! That was stumpin' me last night... I got the keeper ring out and couldn't figure out how to move the lock ring... now I knpow...

Any secrets to gettting the key out? thanks

I will be taking pics and writing up tech stuff for my site... it may take a while but I will update as I go... remember... I'm slow.... hehehe ;)

FYI--- my 14FF and D60 have 4.56's and a Detroit in the 14FF.... trying to land a Traclok for the D60 in a few weeks... :D or maybe an Ox if I hit the Lotto :D

[FSJeeper]

RB, I use one of those telescoping magnet things to get the keys out.

Also, there is a guy on ebay every once and a while selling very high quality 14 bolt socket style spanners to get the bearing retainer nuts off and to torque them back on. I think I paid $6.00 for mine and it makes the job a piece of cake.

[River Beast]

Originally posted by FSJeeper:
RB, I use one of those telescoping magnet things to get the keys out.

Also, there is a guy on ebay every once and a while selling very high quality 14 bolt socket style spanners to get the bearing retainer nuts off and to torque them back on. I think I paid $6.00 for mine and it makes the job a piece of cake.Thanks for the info Pascal.... all this will come in handy as the progress goes....

'THANKS' A BUNCH' FOR EVERYTHING, PASCAL! I owe you BIG time!

[KYJ10]

Heres another, whats the ring gear torque?

[River Beast]

hehehe,,, I feeel like an IDIOT!!! I tapped on the bearing retainer, which loosened it's hold on the key... it pulled right out! :eek:

Now for another problem...

The drum is stuck on.. Is there a slot on the drum I have to rotate it to in order to back off the brakeshoes byt the adjuster star?

I'm back at work now, so I can't go out and check... I just now thought about it.

[nxcj]

Randy's says the ring bolt torque is 120 ft/lb.

http://www.ring-pinion.com/setupspecs.shtml

[FSJeeper]

RB, The drum can not interfere in getting to the adjuster. On the CUCV axles, there are 2 tabs. Under neath one of them is the adjuster star and the other is the adjuster shaft, you must have opped the wrong tab off and are hitting the shaft instead. Pop the other tab and you should be able to get to it easily. I can take pics of a backing plate assembly to show you if you need me to.

[FSJeeper]

Forgot to mention that the adjuster star is 1.5" behind the backing plate. You will have to go back that far before you can loosen the brake shoes.

[scotty]

Originally posted by FSJeeper:
Also, there is a guy on ebay every once and a while selling very high quality 14 bolt socket style spanners to get the bearing retainer nuts off and to torque them back on. I think I paid $6.00 for mine and it makes the job a piece of cake.boy,i wish id seen him before i spent $30 on mine at the local "tool crib"

Originally posted by River Beast:


Thanks for the keyway info Scotty!!! That was stumpin' me last night... I got the keeper ring out and couldn't figure out how to move the lock ring...

i almost hate to admit what i did to mine redface.gif when i drug it home and started striping parts off of it,it was funked up and i couldnt see that the keeper ring was there- figured it was a double nut like the front... when it wouldnt turn with a regular wratchet,i went so far as to put my impact on it :eek: when that didnt work after a few seconds i figured there was prolly more too it,and when i started cleaning the funk out discovered the keeper ring and keyway.

DOH! <slap on forehead>

well not speak of it again ;) tongue.gif

[ February 07, 2003, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[River Beast]

Idiot mistake #2.... I found the RIGHT adjuster hole...hehehe 3 different slots on the backplate... LMAO!!!

Anyway... the 14FF is stripped down to tubes and pig... going to torch off the shock mounts and perches tomorrow....should be ready to install by tomorrow... easy... except the brake hookups.

I bought new hub seals... the one drum was stuck on ... gear oil had leaked past the hub and SOAKED the shoes swelling them up... all it well... new shoes tomorrow and final cleaning. :D

Then I'll tear into the D60 and hopefully be done by Sunday night.

Now to get my 38's sold to get 36x16's to fit these axles... ;) (hint,hint)

[FSJeeper]

RB, I would think twice about taking such a beating on those excellent PJ's. You are only going 2" smaller, not that big of a deal. I know you don't want to grind calipers for safety reasons, but I have done this to run 15" rims without an issue. You can buy 15" 8 lug rims with 2" to 2.5" backspacing which should fit without grinding.

[KYJ10]

RB, don't know if you have seen this, but this is what I just did to my 14ff. You can gain about 2" clearance. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37983

It's worked out great. Still have to get the ring gear done, but thats cheap and fast if you can find a shop with a wire EDM to trim it. I also struggled deciding what rims to run. A guy on pirate that builds alot of chevys, told me for sure a 15" rim with 4" bs would work, but would have to do some grinding around the inner top and edge. Finally, I just went with some 38/13.00/16 swampers, with 16" rims, so I know I will have no problems at all.

[scotty]

ditto what fsjeeper said smile.gif i know i would hate to look at my rig with 36s after seeing it with 38s for all this time.

he could even get WMSs front conversion,convert the 14 bolt to 6 lug,and keep his same wheels!

[Boggin the Boro]

coloradok5 has some good tech articles for 14FF as well.

ck5 (http://coloradok5.com/)

[ February 08, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Boggin the Boro ]

[River Beast]

Sorry guys.... I just got a call last night....SOLD!!!! for $1600!!! :D

I know I could have held out for more.... but I really can't wait any longer!

I have started to get ready for the install of the axles.

drums and rotors cut:
http://home.earthlink.net/~antweed/axles/drumsnrotors64.jpg

14FF broken down for cleanup and mods along with my 'personal touch' of color on certtain parts for the axles... :D

http://home.earthlink.net/~antweed/axles/14ff64.jpg

And the D60 ready for reassembly, which will be today....(yes it's upside-Down ;) )

http://home.earthlink.net/~antweed/axles/D6064.jpg

Just keeping you guy up to date with progress...

[ February 09, 2003, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: River Beast ]

[scotty]

yippee! lookin good,RB :cool:

maybe ill work on my new front axle today. RB,you have inspired me... ;) tongue.gif

[ February 09, 2003, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Crazy_Jeepman]

Originally posted by scotty:
here are some WMS numbers i dug up awhile back:
SRW- 67.5 inches
C&C- 63.5 inches
dually pickup- 72 inches
van- 70 inchesOk Dumb Question Time. What is a SRW and a C&C? :confused: :confused: redface.gif

[idoc]

I sure am glad you asked that CJ. I was going to but didn't want to look too dumb. It makes me feel better if you didn't know what it meant either.

[Crazy_Jeepman]

LMAO, I been waiting for the answer, and hoping it is not as silly as the last stupid question I asked was. RIVER BEAST!!!! I WAS TIRED WHEN I ASKED WHAT A DPA was!!!! ROTFLMAO!! :eek: :rolleyes: :D

[FSJeeper]

RB,

You don't mess around, do you. You just picked those things up late Wednesday night and you are almost done with them.

[Panther]

Wow Todd, looks great.
Can't wait to see the finished project.
What's going on with lift and tires?
Thought you said before you were going back to stock springs and WT flares?
Also what tires and rims?
Lee

[Stuka]

SRW = single rear wheel. as the dually 14FF had a different width.

C&C i believe is refering to the smaller 14C, which has like a 9.2" ring gear or whatever. Its a semi full float.

[River Beast]

Originally posted by Crazy_Jeepman:
LMAO, I been waiting for the answer, and hoping it is not as silly as the last stupid question I asked was. RIVER BEAST!!!! I WAS TIRED WHEN I ASKED WHAT A DPA was!!!! ROTFLMAO!! :eek: :rolleyes: :D LMAO!!!! Pete,,,, you will NEVER live that down.

Originally posted by FSJeeper:
RB,

You don't mess around, do you. You just picked those things up late Wednesday night and you are almost done with them.I try not to! :D I got the D60 fully assebmled and ready to put in.... still need to install the main tierod and get the high steer arm and brakelines and brake pads.... UGH!!!!

I didn't get to work on the 14FF today at all... :(

[Bob Barry]

C&C usually means "Cab and Chassis", the bare-frame with a cab on it used to build custom work-bodies.

[scotty]

looks like im alittle late,and yall have allready figured it out redface.gif i shoulda just typed it out,sorry bout the confusion...

SRW=single rear wheel
C&C= cab and chassis. these are also dual wheeled axles,but much,much narrower than a dual wheel pickup

[ February 10, 2003, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: scotty ]

[Crazy_Jeepman]

GREAT, I can now sleep nights!!!! LOL