Body work woes

[Ralph]

Several all-nighters this week working on the Jeep's body in preparation for paint. I'll post a series of pictures when the job is done. Mostly it's been a process of removing trim, stripping the woodgrain away, and sanding/converting rust patches.

Most difficult tasks have involved dealing with all of the rust. Many panels had rusted through, mostly along the bottom of the woodgrain where moisture was caught. Also the front left fender, in addition to some impact damage there.

I took both fenders off and spent several hours with hammer & dolly (a hand-held anvil) pounding them into near perfect shape. Now I have to weld in a few repair pathes in tricky spots that will require pre-shaping the patch panels.

Today, with both front fenders off and all the door trim removed, I began drilling out the spot welds in order to replace the rocker panels. This is has been very time consuming and has given me a new appreciation for doing it myself -- this would cost a fortune for someone else to do it.

I must say I'm very pleased with the quality of the replacement rocker panels. I've had them for a couple of months, bought from an eBay seller in Cincinnati for about $40 each. I thought they would be just sheemetal covers, but in fact they're very well made and sturdy welded boxes.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll have all the old panels removed and the new ones at least close to being welded in. But I've got plans to head down to Cincinnati and help Narnian tinker with his A/C and a mechanical advance mallor distributor I gave him.

So, just wanted to share with you guys what I'm doing lately. It's pretty plain to me at this point that I'm obsessed and madly in love with my Jeep...

[angry joe]

this why us body men charge so much. very time comsumeing. customers don't seem to understand that. they call on the phone just about once a day. "is my car ready"

sounds like your doing a good job. now you have an insight on how there built. plus your saving lots of money. :D does the guy still have extra rockers? let us see some before and after shots? some while under destruction.

angry joe

[jeepguzzi]

I have had some dealings with body guys. I have told them, no, BEGGED them to tell me how long a job will take. I said "I have no problem with it taking 4 or 6 or 8 weeks, but tell me now" So he assures me it will take two weeks. Six weeks later, I start calling him every day. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Maybe I need new body guys, but his same thing happened both times that I had the Jeep in and I took it to two different guys.

[Ralph]

I've posted a couple of albums on dotPhoto to show my progress. They seem to have some difficulty loading, but here they are:

Body & paint album #1 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewAlbum.asp?AID=56887)

Body & paint album #2 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewAlbum.asp?AID=56890)

[ July 30, 2001: Message edited by: Ralph ]

[GaWd]

Sorry Ralph, they still don't show. It is requesting for us to sign in with a user and Password.

DotPhoto seems about as big a PITA as Yahoo!

Sam

[Ralph]

Here's where we are today. I got the passenger side rocker panel off yesterday. The new panel isn't long enough and only goes as far back as the end of the sill plate in the rear doorway. Lots more rust than I first thought, making this job less and less fun.

July 30 #1 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=56890&IID=1855534)

July 30 #2 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=56890&IID=1855535)


I also spent some time shopping for paint supplies today. Looks as if I'm going to go with DuPont ChromaBase in the original Dover Grey Metallic Clearcoat, with the roof, front end, and lower trim lines done in Grenadine Metallic Clearcoat, which is another OEM color, sort of dark burgundy, that I've always liked.

I've got to get the body repair done, then strip off all the old paint, prep the metal with a self-etching primer, then a urethane primer, then the topcoat in the above colors, then clearcoat. At this point the paint sounds like the easy part -- this rust repair is for the birds.

NOTE: I'll be editing past photos to show just the URL in order to miminize the use of memory.

[ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: Ralph ]

[ClarkGriswald]

Man those pictures make me cringe if not shudder.. I am no good at body work and have no experience really.. I hate messing with that stuff when there is so much mechanicaly to do still.. but alas.. I live in rust hell.

I need to get on some rust patrol but it sucks with no shop and all, not to mention nothing else to drive.

Looks like your goin to town on it though.. good work..

[Ralph]

Daily update:

Yesterday, I removed the driver side doors in order to make removing that rocker panel easier (the benefit of experience, I suppose). I also removed the lower quarter panel on the passenger side, which went pretty easily -- not too much rust to fix underneath either.

August 2 #1 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=56890&IID=1895495)

August 2 #2 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=56890&IID=1895497)

[ August 06, 2001: Message edited by: Ralph ]

[DerJeep]

Ralph,

What did you use to cut off the lower quarter panel section? I have an angle grinder with a cut-off wheel and was hoping that it will suffice.

Kevin

[porkchop]

That's what I used to cut mine off with. Works like a champ.

[Lindel]

Being new to the rust repair arena, I plan to cut out the rusty areas, and weld in new metal. On this premise, and realizing that I'm going to have to keep the beads as small, or low as possible, what are some things to watch out for? On the floor boards, I'm not too worried, since the carpet will hide any obvious flubs, I'm concerened with rocker panels, rear quarters, etc.

[Ralph]

Lindel, I'll be getting my first welding lesson tomorrow. I'll let you know what I learn.

Der Jeep, PC, I used a tool with a wheel about 2" in diameter. Air powered. I don't know what it's called, but it made for short, neat work. What the heck, I'll take a picture of that tomorrow, too.

[Ralph]

Here's another Saturday spent:

August 4 #1 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=56890&IID=1937609)

August 4 #2 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=56890&IID=1937610)

August 4 #3 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=56890&IID=1937612)

August 4 #4 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=56890&IID=1937613)

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: Ralph ]

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

RALPH...NOT TO SCARE YOU BUT THAT PIC OF YOU ...WELL!!! I THINK IT'S YOU OR WHOEVER....... SETTING ON THAT CAN!!!!A FRIEND THAT I WORKED WITH IN A BODY SHOP 20 YEARS AGO OR SO...WAS GRINDING ON A CAR AND SETTING ON A CAN LIKE THAT....IT WAS A EMPTY THINNER CAN...5 GAL...A SPARK WENT IN THE CAN AND IT EXPLODED...BURNING OVER HALF HIS BACK.....SEEING THAT PIC MADE ME THINK OF THE DAY IT HAPPEND.... JUST THINKING OF YOUR SAFETY.... GARY ;) ;)

[Ralph]

Duh!

Thanks for the heads-up, GEM. I wasn't even thinking of what was in that bucket, especially since the gas tank filler and vent hoses are hanging down with a rag stuffed in them just out of sight in the picture.

I must've been singing that old Elton John song, "Rocket Man," while I worked...

[graham]

Ralph, by the looks of things a lot of good work is happening to your Jeep. I can feel what your going through. Did a similar job on my '64 Toyota 700 a few year ago. Started off with a few bits of rust visible. But once the cutting and grinding took place, its amazing how much rotted metal there is under a few coats of paint and hidden behind other panels.

From the untrained, if I may, give a few bits of advice.
Like all time consuming jobs, it will get tedious at times, dont try to rush things or take short cuts, you'll regret these later. I got caught welding sections in continuous beads, heat buckles take alot to get out. Try and spread the heat over different places of the piece your welding. And like any thing you do, preparation and more preparation is the key to success.

Best of luck.

[Ralph]

Thanks, Graham. What can I say? The b!tch is a keeper!

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

RALPH....R&R DOOR SKINS,QUARTERS WHEEL HOUSE, ROOFS,REAR PANELS, ROCKERS AND WHATEVER IS PART OF THE TRADE.....BUT PACH WORK IN THE BODY TRADE IS CALLED GARBAGE WORK...MOST SHOPS WILL NOT DO IT... THE ONE SHOP, THAT I WORKED AT, MOST OF MY YEARS... WE DID IT ALL!!! I HATED IT AT FIRST, BUT GOT TO LIKE IT.... I WORKED ON RUST BUCKETS THAT YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE....THE IDEA IS TO MAKE THE PACH AS FLUSH AS YOU CAN,AND USE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF BONDO!!!.....I SEE YOUR GETTING A GOOD EDUCATION.....GOOD LUCK ;) ;) GARY...

[Ralph]

This week a new guy came into the shop. He's from Brazil and doesn't speak English, and all the Spanish-speaking guys in the shop can't understand a word of his Portugese. But -- oh boy! -- he know his way around rust repair. He went to my fenders first, cutting out the rust spots and welding in patch panels I cut off of Narnian's parts Jeep.

Then he got on the passenger side rocker panels, where he had to rebuild the underbody that was so rusty you couldn't put the new rocker panels in place. He also found significant rust on the passenger side floorboards.

He even cut out a piece from my original quarter panel in order to reinforce the thinner sheetmetal of the replacement panel.

If you guys haven't read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance," you might not appreciate as much as I do the quiet thrill of watching someone do something this well!

August 9 #1 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=63308&IID=2032675)

August 9 #2 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=63308&IID=2032676)

August 9 #3 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=63308&IID=2032677)

August 9 #4 (http://www.dotphoto.com/MemViewImage.asp?AID=63308&IID=2032678)

[ August 17, 2001: Message edited by: Ralph ]

[Slippery]

Isuzu Trooper wheels?

[Ralph]

Rodeo, actually. I bought them with the Michelin tires through eBay for $180, including shipping. My intention was to drive them while stripping, polishing, and respraying clearcoat on my original wheels.

But I kind of like these.

[Narnian]

That's some pretty incredible work. Brazil must have some pretty darned good bodywork shops.

Hmmm.... I wonder if I need to drive to Brazil for something . . .

[Ralph]

Yesterday (Monday), I went into the shop to donate a full day of my time, hoping to watch the Brazilian do his stuff.

Dang my luck, but the bastage quit on me!

It seems he found another body shop closer to his home to work at, since he didn't have transportation to get across town to the present one. Yesterday was a descent into the abyss for me, wondering what I'll do next. The guy left several places where custom work is now required to complete what he started!

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

WELL!!!!GET BACK TO WORK........ WHAT GOOD IS HE???? IF HE LEFT YOU HANGING...IT'S YOUR WAG RIGHT!!!!DON'T GIVE UP NOW!!!!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!!FROM WHAT I CAN TELL..... YOU'RE DOING JUST FINE ............... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!....... I'M JUST TRYING TO HELP YOU ALONG.......AND KEEP UP WITH THE PICs.....GARY smile.gif smile.gif

[Ralph]

Yeah, today I actually bribed him to come in afternoons and finish what he's doing. GEM/OBX, I can sand and polish until it's almost too slick to put a primer on (maybe a self-etch), but I've never used a welder of any kind!

On another note, I discovered that the replacement rocker panels aren't long enough. They're perfect replacements except they're only long enough that the back ends will hang just below the rear door sills. That means Brazil has to fabricate the metalwork from there to the fenderwells.

[Narnian]

How can the rocker panels be too short? Are they off a few milimeters or are we talking 8 inches?

Wide track rocker panels should be about 8 inches shorter.

Or is it 13 inches?

I don't remember now.

Shorter anyway, by a lot.

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

IF IT'S A AFTER MARKET BODY PART GUESS WHAT!!! IT DON'T FIT...... THE BLAZER FENDER WAS ONE OF WORST AFTERMARKET PARTS THAT CAME OUT...... THE BOLT HOLES NEVER LINED UP AND THE PART OF THE FENDER AT THE COWL...YOU WOULD HAVE TO BEAT THE HELL OUT OF IT TO MAKE IT FIT RIGHT...AND FORGET THE DOOR GAPS...WHAT A MESS...BUT 1/3 TO 1/4 THE COST OF A FACTORY GM FENDER....YOU'RE ALLWAYS ADDING OR CUTTING ON MOST AFTERMARKET PARTS.....MY TWO CENTS.... ;) ;) ME!!!

[Ralph]

This is what I mean:

http://fs3.dotphoto.com/MemberImages/180113/i7D32A7A1-2126-4A32-9711-B0590F761CA6.jpg

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

243...FOUND IT!!!DON'T KNOW IF THE PICS ARE ANY GOOD STILL??? smile.gif smile.gif

[OBX-AUTOMOTIVE]

SAY RALPH...YOU STILL HAVE THE ROCKER PICS...FOR 243 TO SEE! smile.gif